Kernow commission ex LSWR Gate Stock Pull Push Sets

[Robin Brasher]

There may not be a red debate but there was a green debate. There used to be heated debates in the model magazines about whether Maunsell green was olive green or sage green and whether malachite green was much different from British Railways Southern Region coach green.

 

Maunsell green influenced the colour of the coaches on the Southern in America and the coaches on the SNCF and the Swiss railways. Here the Southern Railway thought that Maunsell green was too dull and went to the opposite extreme with malachite green.

 

I think that Maunsell green is the most popular shade for Southern pre-nationalisation modellers. It looks more sophisticated.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Robin Brasher

[autocoach]

There may not be a red debate but there was a green debate. There used to be heated debates in the model magazines about whether Maunsell green was olive green or sage green and whether malachite green was much different from British Railways Southern Region coach green.

 

Maunsell green influenced the colour of the coaches on the Southern in America and the coaches on the SNCF and the Swiss railways. Here the Southern Railway thought that Maunsell green was too dull and went to the opposite extreme with malachite green.

 

I think that Maunsell green is the most popular shade for Southern pre-nationalisation modellers. It looks more sophisticated.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Robin Brasher

Link to a restored sample of Southern (US) green passenger car:

 

http://public.media.smithsonianmag.com/legacy_blog/20131105_1644071.jpg

 

The restored Southern car does seem to have a bit of olive/sage hue to the green in sunlight.   Note that this was a segregated "Jim Crow" coach for blacks and colored people.  It is now installed inside the National Museum of African American History and Culture in Washington DC. Most of the pre-streamline era passenger cars of the Southern where dark Pullman green which was predominant color on most non-streamlined railroad passenger cars up until the 1950's. As part of the Smithsonian group of museums, I would expect the restoration color to be quite accurate.

 

​My preference on the other hand is Southern (UK) malachite.

[rembrow]

Picked up the Nov RM today, which has a review of the gate stock. The review is positive about the body moulding and detail, commenting favourably about the detail and included differences in the BR crimson and green versions. They have raised issues about the positioning of some of the underframe equipment, suggesting that the battery boxes are wrongly positioned on the driving carriage, being fitted centrally under the gates, which they say is too far forward based on published drawings from Mike King. They also suggest that part of the brake activation gear on each coach is wrong sided. I can't comment on whether they are correct and if there are these small errors, I hope that the parts can be removed after putchase and repositioned, if it really shows that much. I'll wait and see when mine arrives. Will be interesting what other reviews say, Hornby mag will be out tomorrow in hard copy.

[Blandford1969]

A daft question, does anyone know if these ran over the Salisbury and Dorset, I have a memory of a photo at Fordingbridge, but now can't find it?

[Robin Brasher]

A daft question, does anyone know if these ran over the Salisbury and Dorset, I have a memory of a photo at Fordingbridge, but now can't find it?

Set 373 appeared on a number of Swanage and Old Road services in summer 1960. They originally ran on the Bournemouth- New Milton services and there is no record that they ever reached Swanage before 1960. Please see page 247 of Swanage 125 Years of Railways by B.L. Jackson

[Big James]

Reading the reviews in the railway modeller and Hornby magazine makes me want them even more. They look fab.

 

Big james

[woodenhead]

So the good - they have fixed couplings to substitute for both the coaches and the locomotive - great, I was going to use the Hornby ones I have.

 

The not so good, the RM review talks about issues on transposing items on the underframe - I wouldn't have known this unless it was spelt out so it shouldn't worry me but we should call it call it out as another little blip with a Kernow model following on from the splashers on the 1361

[Robin Brasher]

I have just read the reviews in the November Hornby and Railway Modeller Magazines. The British Railways green and crimson liveries look right to me. Surprisingly the Railway Modeller review seemed to be more in depth and critical. I am surprised that the Railway Modeller reviewer criticised the lining of the crimson version when he had not seen a picture of the prototype.

 

I am looking forward to reading the Model Rail review as it is usually more comprehensive and we may get some comments about how free running the coaches are and how they cope with points.

 

One thing I have noticed is how large the windows are and how much light they let in to the interior. I hope that they can be dismantled easily to fit in passengers and a driver.

[dibber25]

I have just read the reviews in the November Hornby and Railway Modeller Magazines. The British Railways green and crimson liveries look right to me. Surprisingly the Railway Modeller review seemed to be more in depth and critical. I am surprised that the Railway Modeller reviewer criticised the lining of the crimson version when he had not seen a picture of the prototype.

 

I am looking forward to reading the Model Rail review as it is usually more comprehensive and we may get some comments about how free running the coaches are and how they cope with points.

 

One thing I have noticed is how large the windows are and how much light they let in to the interior. I hope that they can be dismantled easily to fit in passengers and a driver.

 

You'll get comment in MR about the running through pointwork. I didn't comment about positions of under frame equipment as I had no references against which to check. I checked with Kernow before commenting about lining on the crimson version. I also spotted a minor 'clanger' which you'll have to read the review to find out about. I've not seen it mentioned here and I've no idea if RM picked it up. (CJL)

Edited October 12, 2017 by dibber25

[NHY 581]

You'll get comment in MR about the running through pointwork. I didn't comment about positions of under frame equipment as I had no references against which to check. I checked with Kernow before commenting about lining on the crimson version. I also spotted a minor 'clanger' which you'll have to read the review to find out about. I've not seen it mentioned here and I've no idea if RM picked it up. (CJL)

?

[woodenhead]

You've found your passengers I see, is that one of Norman's early colour pictures - station life.

[NHY 581]

You've found your passengers I see, is that one of Norman's early colour pictures - station life.

 

Indeed!

[colin.divall]

Set 373 appeared on a number of Swanage and Old Road services in summer 1960. They originally ran on the Bournemouth- New Milton services and there is no record that they ever reached Swanage before 1960. Please see page 247 of Swanage 125 Years of Railways by B.L. Jackson

Yes, 373 definitely ran on the Old Road in 1960 - I’ve a photo somewhere of the set at Wimborne. I know the photo at Fordingbridge, although I don’t have it to hand. Pretty sure when I checked years ago it wasn’t of 373. Ex Isle of Sheppey set, something like that?

[NHY 581]

Set 373 almost certainly ran on the Lamb Regis branch normally accompanied by a M7.

 

 

Hopefully within a few weeks I will have found a photo or two.....

 

 

Rob

[Tim Dubya]

[Butler Henderson]

Me thinking Set 373 may just have worked slightly further east.... If it worked Swanage trains c1960 presumably it could have found its way to Bournemouth and worked trains east of Bournemouth as well.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Butler Henderson

[brushman47544]

Me thinking Set 373 may just have worked slightly further east.... If it worked Swanage trains c1960 presumably it could have found its way to Bournemouth and worked trains east of Bournemouth as well.

 

Didn't you hear.... one day the Waterloo stock derailed at Swanage and Set 373 was used as the only available alternative. Made it to Waterloo and worked back ecs, under the cover of a pea souper.

Edited October 20, 2017 by brushman47544

[chris45lsw]

Didn't you hear.... one day the Waterloo stock derailed at Swanage and Set 373 was used as the only available alternative. Made it to Waterloo and worked back ecs, under the cover of a pea souper.

363, at least, worked over the Bisley branch with an enthusiast special in the '50s.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[Butler Henderson]

Didn't you hear.... one day the Waterloo stock derailed at Swanage and Set 373 was used as the only available alternative. Made it to Waterloo and worked back ecs, under the cover of a pea souper.

Um... I'm thinking more of a daily rosta that takes it on a local to Bournemouth and then a local beyond Bournemouth.

[Tim Dubya]

Um... I'm thinking more of a daily rosta that takes it on a local to Bournemouth and then a local beyond Bournemouth.

 

Rule 1

[Robin Brasher]

It was interesting to see where the gate stock ran. Meanwhile Chris Leigh's review of the gate stock has appeared in the November 2017 Model Rail and he is less happy about the shade of BR carmine than he is about the shade of BR green.

 

The picture shows part of a four wheel parcels van on the Swanage Railway in BR crimson taken from a moving train at Harmans Cross. It is definitely not red and looks similar to the crimson livery carried by the models of the ex LSWR, bird cage and gate stock coaches. When three manufacturers, Hornby, Bachmann and Kernow have independently painted their models in more or less the same colour which is also a close match to the British Standard crimson colour it does suggest that they are right.

 

I have seen two black and white pictures of Set 373: one at Plymstock  and one at Swanage. They both seem to be in gloss livery so perhaps the matt finish on the model looks wrong. I liked the gloss finish that Hornby-Dublo applied to their tinplate coaches. This looked just right.

 

As usual the Model Rail review was more detailed than those in the Railway Modeller and the Hornby Magazine.

[Oldddudders]

As usual the Model Rail review was more detailed than those in the Railway Modeller and the Hornby Magazine.

Really? The RM review was more scathing, I thought, in identifying that certain underfloor gubbins (technical term) was wrongly located, and was unconvinced by the lining on the crimson livery. Since Model Rail identified neither, I wonder if RM was sent a rogue sample, certainly as far as the underfloor detail is concerned. ISTR earlier in this thread triumphal naysayers making the same point, only to be told body and chassis had simply been assembled incorrectly in the samples displayed.

 

None of this dismays me in the slightest. My existing order remains and other liveries may be purchased in due course.

[Robin Brasher]

It is a bit late to read a review six years after you have ordered a model. When models were made in the UK magazine reviews used to appear before the models appeared in the shops and there was no need to pre-order them. No magazine review has ever prevented me from buying a model but the reviews help me to appreciate the good points in a model.

 

The review of the gate stock is the first time I have ever seen a review in the Railway Modeller that is more critical than one in Model Rail.

[JZ]

Just received this email from Kernow.

 

Dear Mr Boniface,

Thanks for your order for our LSWR Gate Stock model(s).

These models have taken far longer to produce than we ever anticipated when we announced the models in 2011! Despite having to change manufacturers and the exchange rate collapsing, along with rising prices in China, we have still managed to maintain the price. The good news is that the wait is almost over – the models have been made and have left the factory in China.

The bad news is that our supplier has changed terms and conditions and now requires payment before the goods will be released from the docks. Having already paid a substantial sum for the tooling some time ago (and the credit / interest fees that go with it!) we could now seek further finance to arrange the shipment. The additional credit / interest fees on this would mean we could no longer honour the original price.

We would instead like permission to charge you for your models today. This will mean we can honour your original price and the models left China on 6th October, on board the vessel CGM CMA GEORG FORSTER and are to arrive in Southampton on 5th November. It would then take a further week to pass through customs and for onward delivery to Cornwall ready for us to send on to you. Distance Selling regulations prevent us from charging for goods that cannot be supplied within 28 days without the express consent of the customer which is why we are contacting you today.  Although we are now within the 28 day period we still feel it is right to contact you prior to charging your card.

If you choose not to pay in full now but wait for the models to arrive you will need to pay the full current price of £129.99. As the models are due within a month anyway we hope this will be acceptable.

You can let us know how you wish to proceed with your order by either replying to this email or by phoning the number below and speaking to a member of our team. If your card details have changed or expired you can also update these by placing a new order on the website. If you place your new order through our website, please remember to add a customer note to say the order replaces your pre-order so that we can correct the price for you.

THE PRE-ORDER PRICE OFFERS WILL EXPIRE ON 30TH OCTOBER 2017

Many thanks for your continued support with this project. Further updates will be given on our website and our weekly email newsletter.

Regards and thanks,

 

Gave them a ring and agreed payment.

[woodenhead]

Bit more detail in the emails now, but all valid as the ship has literally sailed.