David Siddall Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I think 'skill' is possibly more important than time and patience for handbuilding trackwork... Ah well that's me somewhat stuffed then... no time, precious little patience and about as much skill as inept rhino attempting to tap-dance ;-) Naw... am definitely going to go for it. Have (finally) finished re-drafting my track plan using stock Peco templates from the Anyrail track plan library and shoehorning everything into the available space with only one curved turnout option (a hefty 22" long) is far from ideal. Timbertracks bases from C&L look like they should give me far more freedom to ease and adjust the curvature to create the effect I'm after. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I think 'skill' is possibly more important than time and patience for handbuilding trackwork, and I'm not sure I have any of those three in great quantities... Sorry have to disagree here, I built my first turnout out of copper paxolin soldered to rail when I was 15 yrs old, and I certainly was far from skilled at the time. C & L or Exactoscale are the way to go in my opinion if you start with a point kit which I agree is quite expensive, but it will give you an idea of what goes where, and builds your confidence at the same time. You can then start to make your own vee's and point blades and you'll find the price will come right down, especially once you have the gauges, etc. I reckon I can build a turnout for roughly £10 to £12 in total. It's also a very enjoyable part of the hobby and there are enough of us on here that can help you if you get stuck and need help, so give it a go you won't regret it. ATB, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 The C&L "turnout in a bag" kits do seem quite expensive though - although that may just be my lack of familiarity with how much things cost in O gauge compared to other scales. I don't get all this "A5/B6" etc designation anyway - are there any free downloadable printable templates out there? Is there an idiots guide somewhere? Although of course that question might be more for the track forum rather than here which was originally a question as to whether I can fit anything worthwhile in the space I have. I have more or less come up with a track plan using the three Peco points I already have, and it fits in 8ft scenic area so there'll be a small bolt on section for each end for when I'm not restricted with space at home, which will contain on the left side a 2ft "off scene" siding and a monitor display that will show a Powerpoint presentation about the layout when it goes out to exhibitions (if...) and the right hand side a cassette unit of probably about 3ft long where trains will be stored - current plans are quite simple, just to have the bubble car for passenger services, a 33 and a few wagons for the freight service, and the factory shunter will shuffle wagons round. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 If you contact the nice people at Peco they will send you some of their point templates, this is always handy as you can then space them out on your base boards to see how things fit. The most expensive parts of a turnout are the vee's and the point blades, if you are prepared to file these yourself ( which is quite labour intensive, but not bad with some good files ) then there is little extra cost involved . You will need a couple of track gauges and a jig to set the vee's before soldering, you only need to buy these once. Then it's just a case of plastic or wooden sleepers, which chairs depending on era and company and some rail either steel or nickel silver and what code you need. So basically after the jigs all you need is rail,sleepers and chairs. The A,B,C, etc are basically the different size switches ( point blades ) and the 5,6,7, etc are basically the radius of the points at the vee ie :- A6 = A switch and 1:6 radius. Try looking at the templot site there is loads of info on there, you can join without paying for the software. ATB, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 I've already got a left, right and Y O gauge Peco point, plus I use XTrackCAD which contains them in a library so that in itself is no problem, but it's the other things like A6/B7 etc. I emailed Peco asking if they planned to do 'short' 4ft radius points, see what happens. It's just as more and more rtr O gauge comes on stream, and with Peco being pretty much the major manufacturer of rtr trackwork here in the UK I think it's a market that's crying out for more of their attention. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Siddall Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I have to say that in the year or so since deciding to switch scales I'm still hunting for the definitive 'Turnouts for Dummies' guide. Have spent hours on the Templot site (and forum) and am barely the wiser. Doesn't help that in my world A6 and B5 have always been paper sizes where the higher the number the smaller the dimensions. The other thing that irks slightly is that having followed advice and joined the Guild, where apparently there's lots of support for newbies to the scale, the trackwork section is unbelievably (or in my case incomprehensibly) technical. I've observed before that geometry and I are not on what you might call familiar terms. Best I can manage so far is that in 'O' a B6 appears to be about 22" long (and so could perhaps be described to be the equivalent of a 'large radius' point in 'OO' R-T-R terms?). An A5 appears to be about 2/3 as long and has a sharper radius (so perhaps a 'medium'?). I've ordered an A5 and a B6 template from C&L so hopefully will soon have a better idea. D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 I'm convinced all of these track manufacters would sell a lot more if their templates were free to download. £1.80 for a piece of paper? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66C Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I'm convinced all of these track manufacters would sell a lot more if their templates were free to download. £1.80 for a piece of paper? Exactoscale have drawings that can be downloaded from here: http://www.exactosca...k/4mmtrack.html I know this is the 4mm track page but the drawings contain information that is useful for all standard gauge track. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 A 7mm equivalent would be perfect. I suppose their thinking is that you need to print on A3 paper for 7mm; a lot of people have access to them these days though. I guess that scaling it up by a percentage on the copier wouldn't necessarily work either? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supaned Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I suppose that part of the reason that they charge for plans is that a lot of people build their own track using these plans , thus the company producing the plans would potentially earn nothing from providing the plans for free , which is not exactly a successful business model. Even if you buy a plan at £1.80 and make multiple copies for your own use , that must be a worthwhile investment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 True, but surely most people would be buying their components from that very same company otherwise they'd be looking at someone else's website? I suppose from my point of view I am very unlikely to ever build a large layout of an equivalent size or complexity to some of the N or OO projects I have in the past unless I have a lot more space or money, or O gauge comes down significantly in price. It wouldn't even be so bad if companies just gave dimensions which would at least give you an idea of whether something would fit or not into the space you have available whether it's overall, between board joints or whatever. I guess if companies don't want to help me buy their products then I'll stick with the Peco points I already have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supaned Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Again . if you are buying pre-made frogs and blades then perhaps , but if you are fabricating everything from scratch then that's not the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 If you're skillful enough to make your own frogs and blades then there's every chance you already have templates of some description bought many years ago... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeg Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I do not use templates to make points, I have a board that has spacers on for the sleepers and put the straight stock rail on first, then using a track curve and a track gauge place the other stock rail. I have 5ft, 6ft and 8ft curves that are 32mm wide and set them up from the toe of the point, once the two outer rails are in place its just a matter of using the track gauge to fill in the rest of the point. Any one should be able to file rail to the angle for the crossing and also the blades, I also file a slight indent in the stock rails for the blades to sit, not prototypical but just gives good running. I think most people cosider points as difficult to make but they are in fact easy once you have made the first and found the right way for you. I use 3mm thick pcb that I got for a donation to charity from a firm that makes custom PCB's for the aerospace industry, but its a b****r to cut being fibreglass! regards mike g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Bear in mind that the things that take up room on layouts are points - they can advantageously be replaced by sector plates or traversers - more than anything it is a question of thinking laterally of ways to work around the problem when trying to fit layouts into small spaces Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 If you're skillful enough to make your own frogs and blades then there's every chance you already have templates of some description bought many years ago... Most track builders myself included do not use templates from suppliers, we use programs like Templot to make our own plans and templates. Then you can make the trackwork flow and look much more prototypical. ATB, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I guess if companies don't want to help me buy their products then I'll stick with the Peco points I already have. Peco points are OK, but if you placed one next to a C&L or Exactoscale turnout I know which one I would choose. They are much cheaper than Peco and look a lot more like real trackwork. Also your not governed by certain sized turnouts, you can build any size or radius you want. ATB, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I also file a slight indent in the stock rails for the blades to sit, not prototypical but just gives good running. regards mike g Hi Mike, It's called a " joggled switch " and they were used widely all over the GWR network, but none of the other companies to my knowledge used them. ATB, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Hand made anything is almost always better than mass produced 'off the shelf' - unless I'm somehow involved in the making of said item... If I'd made track in any other scale previously it probably wouldn't be so daunting, but being my first venture into O gauge it just feels like "a step too far" as a challenge right now, even though I would guess that being larger makes it somehow easier. Not 100% convinced I'm ready for Templot at the moment either - XTrackCAD stretches me at times (although possibly more on patience than skill). I guess having had several 'layout failures' in a row I don't want to set myself up from the start for another failure or project that I get so frustrated with every step of the way that it never gets finished - and, of course, O gauge is a much more expensive failure to endure... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Hand made anything is almost always better than mass produced 'off the shelf' - unless I'm somehow involved in the making of said item... If I'd made track in any other scale previously it probably wouldn't be so daunting, but being my first venture into O gauge it just feels like "a step too far" as a challenge right now, even though I would guess that being larger makes it somehow easier. Not 100% convinced I'm ready for Templot at the moment either - XTrackCAD stretches me at times (although possibly more on patience than skill). I guess having had several 'layout failures' in a row I don't want to set myself up from the start for another failure or project that I get so frustrated with every step of the way that it never gets finished - and, of course, O gauge is a much more expensive failure to endure... To be totally honest I don't get on with templot I have to beg a friend for help when I get stuck, but as track building is manual work I am quite comfortable with it. Like I said in an earlier post I started track building at 15 yrs old, and that was in EM. 7mm you would find much easier and forgiving. I will pm you with a couple of layouts that use templot to give you an idea of what can be done. ATB, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Siddall Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I do not use templates to make points... I have 5ft, 6ft and 8ft curves that are 32mm wide mike g Are the curves you describe proprietary Mike and if so who sells them? I've built points in 'N' using Tracksetta curves (can't find them for 'O') aided by the Mk1 human eyeball (before they started to fade due to age and overwork), a chunk of timber and some drawing pins. They may not have been exactly finescale (rail soldered direct to pcb sleepers without chairs) but they actually worked and I managed to hamfistedly create formations that I couldn't have using any r-t-r offering. I do understand understand that the cost of a template may seem a bit cheeky CN but I run a small business too and one of the things we have to do to keep it viable is sometimes charge for things folks would really like for free. I'd did look at the Exactoscale 4mm PDF templates a while back but decided I'd get some full-size ones from C&L to play with - mainly because they've been incredibly helpful in response to my dimwitted enquiries by email. The issue with my plan is that if I went with Peco (and I've seen their products superbly improved by modifying the sleepers at the big end and losing the gurt plastic lump where the tie bar should be), their curved turnouts are a mighty 22" long and the single available radius aint the one I really want. Anyhow... doesn't matter what I (or anyone else) think. I'm just looking forward to seeing your layout up and running because you're working in a far more challenging space than I am and your ideas for it sound the biz! Also, using Peco you'll be happily cruising that 121 up and down long before I've glued so much as a slide chair to a sleeper!!! TTFN David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 With a scenic space of around 5x the length of the 122 I'm not sure that "cruising" is quite the right word... the main reason I'm including a small station is to give the thing a chance to be 'on scene' for more than a few seconds! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warspite Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Ah well that's me somewhat stuffed then... no time, precious little patience and about as much skill as inept rhino attempting to tap-dance ;-) Funniest thing I've heard for a long time! Just about sums me up too ....... I guess if companies don't want to help me buy their products then I'll stick with the Peco points I already have. I guess it's all about compromise. I really admire those of you, like David, who are prepared to build their own track, but I'm not sure my skills would go that far. I'm content with my Peco track. I'm using Y points, only 15" long which helps in a limited space. I don't get buffer locking even though I'm using 3-link couplings (and sprung buffers). My layout is at eye level and I'm more than happy with the look of the track after I've covered most of it with the sort of everyday gunge that a working railway accumulated. Running - I get the dips at the frogs with some wheels but I'm happy to accept that in the name of compromise. At the end of the day, doesn't all our modelling entail varying degrees of compromise unless we have all the space, time and budget? Then again, if David shows us how to build a C&L point, I might just change my mind ........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Siddall Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I'd be honoured (and not a little astonished) if anyone showed more than a passing interested in following what I suspect could end up being a masterclass in 'these are my mistakes... avoid them and you could actually end up with a rather nice little turnout!' ;-) Mind you... having decided to go public with my own thread I can't really now bale out of the challenge can I? If you have the patience (and are prepared to suspend disbelief from time to time) if nothing else it'll at least give you something to chuckle over. I'm just waiting for my templates to arrive before biting the bullet and placing my first order for a turnout kit after which the comedy construction process will be faithfully documented. However... before you pay the remotest bit of attention to my blundering and blatherings take a look at the job done properly. The link is to (coughs loudly) 'a competing forum' and provided my initial inspiration for what can be achieved in 7mm scale. D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Siddall Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 With a scenic space of around 5x the length of the 122 I'm not sure that "cruising" is quite the right word... the main reason I'm including a small station is to give the thing a chance to be 'on scene' for more than a few seconds! OK, if not 'cruising' how about 'shuttling' then? Sounds pretty appropriate for a Bubblecar stopping service? My own plan barely leaves room to do more than that either ;-) To be honest, I've been far more impressed with some of the absolutely minimum space 'diorama' layouts I've seen over the years than anything else. My all time favourite (albeit in OO) is 'Hendre Lane', and it's hard not to be impressed by what the prolific Mr Futers achieves in small spaces in the senior scale, for example . Likewise with (as I think I've mentioned before) the delightful by Dave Harris and John Witts (both latter links to YouTube). D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.