Guest dilbert Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Don't get me wrong, I like seeing good models of subjects that are no use to me in modelling terms. But when it comes to wishlist voting, I go with the obvious intent of such polls: "This is what I would like to see made, and will purchase provided it is a decent model". (And I might even purchase it if it isn't as good as it could be, but capable of being knocked into shape.) The other observations I would make are that the game has changed, relatively unusual items are finding a market; and if everyone with a minority interest bails on that interest and goes for something they feel is more likely to command support, that's a self fulfilling prophecy... Given that there are ~700 items to select from, even the most popular item will essentially represent a minority interest with a restricted number of votes (under the old system). This underlines the importance of voting responsibly, especially as there are no restrictions (from what I understand) on the number of votes that can be cast by one person. There is obviously the partisan affiliation (the big 4, BR, etc...), for motive power preferences linked to era and type (steam, diesel, electric) etc... I may have misunderstood about an individual's 'unlimited' voting options, if not then hope that I'm not chucking boulders into the pond... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted December 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2011 Given that there are ~700 items to select from, even the most popular item will essentially represent a minority interest with a restricted number of votes (under the old system). This underlines the importance of voting responsibly, especially as there are no restrictions (from what I understand) on the number of votes that can be cast by one person. There is obviously the partisan affiliation (the big 4, BR, etc...), for motive power preferences linked to era and type (steam, diesel, electric) etc... I may have misunderstood about an individual's 'unlimited' voting options, if not then hope that I'm not chucking boulders into the pond... dilbert You can vote for however many items as you wish. We felt that restricting it to just 10 items would not reflect the wishes of the modelling and collecting community. Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2011 Given that there are ~700 items to select from, even the most popular item will essentially represent a minority interest with a restricted number of votes (under the old system). This underlines the importance of voting responsibly, especially as there are no restrictions (from what I understand) on the number of votes that can be cast by one person. There is obviously the partisan affiliation (the big 4, BR, etc...), for motive power preferences linked to era and type (steam, diesel, electric) etc... I may have misunderstood about an individual's 'unlimited' voting options, if not then hope that I'm not chucking boulders into the pond... dilbert I go along 100% with this, especially in view of Brian's comment that 'unlimited' means exactly what it says. At least it means that I, for one, will be able in 2012 to express my full range of interest in steam outline locos, passenger coaching stock (including NPCCS), wagons and dmus, let alone potential lineside or scenic items, which has not quite been possible when limited in the number of votes available. And I can see how the voting in this way in 2012 might help in the design of following year's polls. On thing which does interest me - and I'm sure Andy will have the answer - is will there be some constraint or 'marker' in the software to prevent multiple voting? And I don't just mean using the same link off one particular site but using links published in say magazines or on other websites. For instance I, and no doubt others, use different screen names and passwords on different sites so if I came in via different routes would a rather different form of 'multiple voting' be possible (not that I intend to of course but it's a tactic that might suit the less than scrupulous?). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 On thing which does interest me - and I'm sure Andy will have the answer - is will there be some constraint or 'marker' in the software to prevent multiple voting? And I don't just mean using the same link off one particular site but using links published in say magazines or on other websites. For instance I, and no doubt others, use different screen names and passwords on different sites so if I came in via different routes would a rather different form of 'multiple voting' be possible (not that I intend to of course but it's a tactic that might suit the less than scrupulous?). Measures are in place to identify any multiple voting through various means (we're well used to it with various muppets over the years on polls run on here) irrespective of which route they reach the poll through. Such votes would be removed prior to any results being calculated, this does mean that the one legitimate vote from that party may also be removed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil gollin Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Measures are in place to identify any multiple voting through various means (we're well used to it with various muppets over the years on polls run on here) irrespective of which route they reach the poll through. Such votes would be removed prior to any results being calculated, this does mean that the one legitimate vote from that party may also be removed. I'm pleased with that. When it comes to, for instance, voting for a "small (name favourite region) 0-6-0T" what will the instructions/recommendations be to avoid someone for voting for everyone listed when in real life they would probably only get one or two classes ? As with the previous example of a small, pre-grouping Southern 4-4-0, I would "like" almost any one, but would feel uncomfortable if I felt the only way to "play the system" was to vote for any and everyone I could see ? ( I do appreciate the effort that has been expended.) . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 It's a sensible question Phil; I'd say the answer is to vote for what you would purchase if it were produced to a satisfactory standard. That could be that you would purchase any of x,y or z but it would be understood that your votes would not necessarily mean you would purchase x, y and z if they were all produced. That would be spread voting rather than 'on the nose'; the collective combination of both methods helps determine a balanced result. It is then for manufacturers to interpret the absolute data in a manner which I described earlier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted December 19, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 19, 2011 There are 'pluses and minuses' whenever one changes a system, but The Poll Team believes that its changes will be for the better. The text is clearer; the running order is clearer; we have written unbiased text to aid pollsters; and anyone from novice modeller to experienced collector will find it just as easy. If I was a 10-year old (as I was when I first became interested in trains and models) I would be able to take part with no real difficulty. Even if I did find some stumbling blocks, there is a comprehensive bibliography and list of websites. As Andy has pointed out, procedures are in place to weed out rogue voting. However, the vast majority of modellers and collectors are 'decent people' and will vote for what they would realistically want to see made and would actually purchase. The more pollsters we attract, the more realistic the results. The manufacturers will 'balance' these results against all their other information gathering methods. There are seven SR 4-4-0s listed for your consideration. I (personally) can see some that stand no chance of commercial production, whilst others are 'in the running'. If you study what steam locos have been made by the majors over the past few years, you will find 'common attributes' and those may give some clue as to what stands more chance. There are nearly 48 SR locos listed. Even if two were made per year, that's 24 years' production. Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team, except the sentence marked 'personally') Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 To all the members of the Poll Team, it's largely thankless work that you've undertaken and given the intrinsic nature of polls, doubtless there will be criticisms, some reasoned and some not. Nevertheless, I appreciate the effort you all contribute to provide a structured 'voice' for us all, and one that improves in quality year over year. Whether or not manufacters incorporate such democratized customer feedback into their plans, I enjoy participating and seeing the results. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil gollin Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 ...........There are nearly 48 SR locos listed. Even if two were made per year, that's 24 years' production. ........ I wonder if the "box shifters" would deliver to me in a box in the ground ? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted December 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2011 Very many thanks for your kind comments. I will make sure that those members who don't have access here see the message. (I have had the good fortune to go Portland, Oregon, about five years ago and have some fond memories of 'trainspotting'!) Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 There are nearly 48 SR locos listed. I'm looking forward to the poll - a chance to say what I'd like to see / buy - but also the results; it's interesting and sometimes inspiring to look at what other people are voting for. I'm not sure how long the polls have been running for now (I think I came across them two or three years ago) but it would be interesting to analyse a timeline showing popular choices in 200x and manufacturer's production a few years later. Has it been done comprehensively? As a facetious aside, nearly 48? Is the NRM Merchant Navy a choice? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted December 20, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2011 The Poll has been going for about 10 years. There has been some analysis of results in the past, but we believe that this year's listings will provide a firm foundation for year-on-year comparison in the future. My apologies for the hiccup with 'nearly' - I originally started my posting with 'There are nearly 50 SR locos listed', then thought I'd better be accurate - then left the word 'nearly' in! Of course, if any get announced before we 'go live', we will delete them from the list(s). Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 No need for apologies, it made me chuckle into my early morning coffee! Thanks for the information re the analysis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 This is good news : it sounds as if it will improve the poll substantially and widen the number of voters . A lot of hard work has clearly gone in behind the scenes to respond to views expressed in various quarters about the limitations of previous polls and build a better structure, and having a broadly based Poll Team is a positive thing . Best of luck come April Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted December 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2011 That's very kind of you - much appreciated! Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Measures are in place to identify any multiple voting through various means... So, no block voting, whereby a "Dear Leader" votes on behalf of hundreds of thousands of amazingly like minded individuals? All joking aside, it's good to be able to present an accurate as possible list of "likely to sell well" models to the manufacturers, although there are two caveats: firstly, design and production are planned out quite a few years in advance (I dimly recall Simon Kohler saying something along the lines of Hornby has all its model plans in place until 2015 or so), so we may not see the top pollers for a number of few years; and secondly, what we want may not be what the manufacturers believe will sell well (I wonder if any Airfix enthusiasts would have dreamt that Airfix would spend time, effort, resources and money on making a 2012 London Olympic Stadium). Expect the odd detour by manufacturers into the world of commercial tie-ins (detours that, to my mind, waste resources, effort and production slots) to produce things we don't want, but are considered to have high sales potential. I suggest that RMWeb has a countdown page whereby the top 20 wish list from this year's poll are "ticked off" whenever a prototype makes it into model form. Noting, of course, when the model is announced (and therefore how long it took to get into production) and by whom. I suspect that quite a few items on the wish list will remain "unticked" for a few years. F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted January 1, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2012 I must admit that I read the original post and subsequent replies (including my own), where all very tongue in cheek. Presumably that was not the intention, as the thread has gone on so long. In which case, when does the Poll open? - when can we cast our votes? Regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted January 1, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2012 Hello Neal We are waiting to hear when Bachmann will announce - see the first posting from Andy on page 1 of this thread. Any items announced will be deleted from the poll data. Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted January 1, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2012 So, no block voting, whereby a "Dear Leader" votes on behalf of hundreds of thousands of amazingly like minded individuals? All joking aside, it's good to be able to present an accurate as possible list of "likely to sell well" models to the manufacturers, although there are two caveats: firstly, design and production are planned out quite a few years in advance (I dimly recall Simon Kohler saying something along the lines of Hornby has all its model plans in place until 2015 or so), so we may not see the top pollers for a number of few years; and secondly, what we want may not be what the manufacturers believe will sell well (I wonder if any Airfix enthusiasts would have dreamt that Airfix would spend time, effort, resources and money on making a 2012 London Olympic Stadium). Expect the odd detour by manufacturers into the world of commercial tie-ins (detours that, to my mind, waste resources, effort and production slots) to produce things we don't want, but are considered to have high sales potential. I suggest that RMWeb has a countdown page whereby the top 20 wish list from this year's poll are "ticked off" whenever a prototype makes it into model form. Noting, of course, when the model is announced (and therefore how long it took to get into production) and by whom. I suspect that quite a few items on the wish list will remain "unticked" for a few years. F Hello F I'll be able to give you more of an answer after Hornby 'officially' announce on Tuesday. Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted January 1, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2012 Hello Neal We are waiting to hear when Bachmann will announce - see the first posting from Andy on page 1 of this thread. Any items announced will be deleted from the poll data. Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) Thanks Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 So, no block voting, whereby a "Dear Leader" votes on behalf of hundreds of thousands of amazingly like minded individuals? Well it depends ... bloc voting of many like-minded individuals can in theory be orchestrated without electonic multiplication. It is how elections are won. (I tried so hard to frame a pun to ask whether our "Dear Doctor" might be expanding his interests to include not-very-successful experiments in steam by OVS Bulleid, but sadly, just couldn't make it happen.) I must admit that I read the original post and subsequent replies (including my own), where all very tongue in cheek. Neal, I didn't get that sense. I think this reorganized poll is a genuinely positive step and hope it will prove to be so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted January 3, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2012 All joking aside, it's good to be able to present an accurate as possible list of "likely to sell well" models to the manufacturers, although there are two caveats: firstly, design and production are planned out quite a few years in advance (I dimly recall Simon Kohler saying something along the lines of Hornby has all its model plans in place until 2015 or so), so we may not see the top pollers for a number of few years; and secondly, what we want may not be what the manufacturers believe will sell well (I wonder if any Airfix enthusiasts would have dreamt that Airfix would spend time, effort, resources and money on making a 2012 London Olympic Stadium). Expect the odd detour by manufacturers into the world of commercial tie-ins (detours that, to my mind, waste resources, effort and production slots) to produce things we don't want, but are considered to have high sales potential. I suggest that RMWeb has a countdown page whereby the top 20 wish list from this year's poll are "ticked off" whenever a prototype makes it into model form. Noting, of course, when the model is announced (and therefore how long it took to get into production) and by whom. I suspect that quite a few items on the wish list will remain "unticked" for a few years. F Hello F As promised, I'm coming back with some data for you now that Hornby has 'officially' announced. The following are just some of the items which have either been top, or very near top, of the relevant poll sections and have been made/announced in the past three years or so: Mk1 Sleeper; Mk1 TPO; Mk1 Horsebox; 42xx; 52xx: 72xx; Garratt; Thompson Non-gangwayed; PP-sets; Diag 2005 SO; Van B; Class 67; City of Truro; GWR ROD 2-8-0; LSWR O2; Beattie Well Tank; SECR Class C; 3F; 7F; Porthole stock; Hawksworths; Blue Pullman; Stove R; Class 29; DP2; B17; L1; Class 23; 10000/10001; 10201/2/3; Gresley Non-gangwayed; Class 76; Class 28; MR Compound; LNER vans. There seems to be a valid correlation between high polling items and what actually gets produced. We will be sending out Press Releases to all relevant UK magazines (and some in the USA and Australia). We will also be contacting every model shop and model railway club. The more people that vote, the better. Hope this helps. Regards, Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 As promised, I'm coming back with some data for you now that Hornby has 'officially' announced. The following are just some of the items which have either been top, or very near top, of the relevant poll sections and have been made/announced in the past three years or so.... That's good to know, thanks. I would also be interested to know how long it takes for an item to make it into production from when it appears on the list (it might give an idea of how long something has to be clamoured for before it come out as a RTR) F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted January 3, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hello again, F. The results will held for year-by-comparison. The 2012 results will be published both on MREmag and RMweb (and, hopefully, in various magazines etc). Regards Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJD Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I understand the results of the poll are used by model shops, e.g. Kernow and Hattons, to gauge interest in more specialist models. I feel we modellers should be ready to put our money where our mouths (and votes) are. If a model shop is willing to commission a Leader for example, those interested would send in their deposits to ensure enough buyers exist. (Deposit refundable if project is cancelled, but not if the purchaser decides to back out.) Richard Davies Utah, USA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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