Wishlist The MREmag & RMweb Wishlist Poll – 2012

[Andy Y]

The MREmag & RMweb Wishlist Poll – 2012

 

From The Poll Team (Neil Burgess, Robert Carroll, Chris Knowles-Thomas, John Lewis, Jeff Lynn, Brian Macdermott, Nick Stanbury, Ian Taylor and Glen Woods).

 

We are delighted to have been asked by Pat Hammond (MREmag) to run the Wishlist Poll from 2012. We bring with us over 400 years’ combined experience of modelling – some members of the team are published book/magazine article authors; some have retail experience; and some are ex-BR staff (with some still working on preserved railways).

 

We are also delighted to say that Andy York (RMweb) has kindly agreed to design the computer elements of the Poll for us, working from our text, and to run the Poll concurrently with MREmag.

 

Hence, the new title: The MREmag & RMweb Wishlist Poll – 2012.

 

The purpose of the Poll is: To enable the railway modelling and collecting community to let the major ready-to-run manufacturers and those who ‘commission’ models know which railway models they would like to see made from new tooling.

 

We have worked hard since May to respond to feedback from pollsters that they wanted to see ‘rationalisation/consolidation’ of the content and we have:

 

• ‘stylised’ the presentation of the text for consistency;

• arranged steam locos by order of wheel arrangement, making the lists easier to navigate;

• added BR running numbers to steam locos (and others) to aid identification;

• added diagram numbers to rolling stock where appropriate to aid identification;

• split BR Freight into two for greater clarity (Steam/Diesel Era and TOPs-coded types);

• cut the content to just 700 items (without material loss);

• enabled pollsters to vote for what they would realistically purchase (previously 10 votes only); and

• written a maximum of six lines of easily-digested text about every item listed (The Guide).

 

How many people know the differences between an LNER A2/1, A2/2 and A2/3? How many people understand the features and build-dates of the various BR Mk1 catering vehicles? How many people know that there are three distinct time-spans/styles/liveries for the Tavern Cars? You will find answers to all these questions – and many more – in The Guide.

 

We don’t have a ‘go live’ date to give you at present, as we are awaiting confirmation of when Bachmann will announce its future programme. This is normally early in March, so you can expect to see this Poll by April and probably earlier. Full details will be announced in due course on both MREmag and RMweb. Both will carry N and OO versions.

 

If you have any queries, please email us at ThePollTeam@gmail.com – not Andy York. Ensure you put ‘Poll’ as the subject, lest you are ignored as spam. You can normally expect a reply within 24 hours. This is for queries only – there will be a box for suggestions for 2013 in The Poll itself. The 2012 content is ‘closed’ (except to deletions due to announcements).

 

Please note that other wishlist type polls may well be run, but this will be the only one that will be supported by and run concurrently on both MREmag and RMweb. Both sites will carry the same end report.

[Guest dilbert]

 

We are also delighted to say that Andy York (RMweb) has kindly agreed to design the computer elements of the Poll for us, working from our text, and to run the Poll concurrently with MREmag.

 

<snip>

 

• cut the content to just 700 items (without material loss);

 

<snip>

 

Please note that other wishlist type polls may well be run, but this will be the only one that will be supported by and run concurrently on both MREmag and RMweb. Both sites will carry the same end report.

 

I have deliberately avoided this poll over the last few years principally because of the way the subject content was structured (duplicate items, recent releases included, subjects in wrong sub-groups etc...) and also because I found some of the analysis overbearing and rather strange at times.

 

The fact that the number of elements has been reduced to 700 items without loss of content is excellent news and with a rational structure should be easier to navigiate.

 

I would be more than willing, like ozexpat (if you're looking for volunteers) to help test out the interface etc... it will be interesting to see how many non-voters will be motivated to participating.

 

Re. the last point, I can't imagine who else would attempt to run a wishlist poll ... dilbert

[griffgriff]

Interesting ...

 

Will this see the end of random wish lists I wonder (I notice you 'tagged' it as such Andy).

 

I hope so because I do believe that this kind of feedback is useful to manufacturers and consumers alike but at the same time I remember all the dreary B*** P****** posts that so irritated everyone.

 

Fingers Crossed

[Andy Y]

Obviously I've had an insight into the hard work the Poll Team have put into this and it'll pay dividends. The Guide gives no nonsense clarity, everything is logically organised, duplication within different categories is eliminated and the lists will be bang up to date including any announcements made by Bachmann around early March time.

 

Thank you for the testing offers, it is appreciated, but I can assure potential voters the poll will be clear and simple in its approach, the voter will be able to select the categories they wish to vote in and be presented with a list as short or long as the categories they've chosen. It works well.

 

It is important that the poll enables a wider and more representative sample to be achieved and the Poll Team are writing to all of the magazines and significant websites to encourage as much participation as possible.

[Stubby47]

Will it only be 'N' and 'OO' ? No 009, or 'O' gauge , or anything else ?

[Andy Y]

The poll concentrates on 4mm and 2mm as being the principal commercial scales, I believe that previous inclusion of 7mm yielded a very small number of votes across an obviously larger range of potential subjects.

[BMacdermott]

There will be just N and OO versions.

 

Regards

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[The Black Hat]

Thanks to Andy and the team for a lot of hard work and graft to get this done. Its bound to become THE poll by which both modellers, enthuiasts and companies look to in order to comunicate the desires of what people would like to model. This has obviously taken a great deal of time to organise to improve what has gone before, and both Andy, Pat and the team Im sure have the gratiude of all of us for their endeavours.

[The Stationmaster]

 

I have deliberately avoided this poll over the last few years principally because of the way the subject content was structured (duplicate items, recent releases included, subjects in wrong sub-groups etc...) and also because I found some of the analysis overbearing and rather strange at times.

The fact that the number of elements has been reduced to 700 items without loss of content is excellent news and with a rational structure should be easier to navigiate.

 

While I have partaken of the poll over several years I agree entirely with both of those points. The illogical grouping of some GW classes and then the rejection of what would clearly be logical totals of votes (as has been mentioned in other threads on RMWeb) will, I'm sure, be a thing of the past with the expertise that is coming in from the MREMag 'regulars'. Equally it will be good to see an end to the biased 'interpretation' of results which we have sometimes seen in the past.

 

Overall I think this is an excellent advance for the hobby and if it achieves the widespread participation which the team are hoping for it could become even more helpful to the manufacturers when combined with their own market research.

 

PS Are we now going to have a'lobbying forum' where those with particular hopes can seek out their fellows (apart from the specialist areas which already exist)?

[Kris]

The poll concentrates on 4mm and 2mm as being the principal commercial scales, I believe that previous inclusion of 7mm yielded a very small number of votes across an obviously larger range of potential subjects.

"Larger range" Andy, interesting comparative choice of words

[Ian J.]

Well, I never got round to finishing programming my wish list application, so no competition from me there I do however feel that not giving voters the full freedom of choice of scale/gauge they'd like a subject in is a missed opportunity, as N and OO are very limiting. O gauge is still somewhat valid for feedback to the major manufacturers as Bachmann and Heljan produce items for it.

[Andy Y]

N and OO are very limiting.

 

I'd prefer to say 2mm and 4mm but in practice it's the same as far as RTR goes. I wouldn't say it's limiting as they do represent 95%+ of the RTR market; there would be more effort/input required to produce a 7mm list than for the two main scales for a small part of the overall market.

[Ian J.]

I think allowing for choice of scales depends on how the application is designed. If thought through and done properly, the only extra effort would be the small reduction in available choices for 7mm due to what's already been released.

 

However, as I didn't finish my application I can't labour the point as I haven't put my money where my mouth is.

[DerekEm8]

 

I'd prefer to say 2mm and 4mm but in practice it's the same as far as RTR goes. I wouldn't say it's limiting as they do represent 95%+ of the RTR market; there would be more effort/input required to produce a 7mm list than for the two main scales for a small part of the overall market.

 

Andy,

Please keep it to 2mm, 4mm etc SCALE and not have the gauge segregation that went before (00/EM/P4). We all know that other gauge specific RTR isn't going to happen

[Guest Phil]

On the whole I think this is good news, but I just can't help feeling that the narrow gauges are being marginalised here. I do realise there are umpteen scales, even if we restrict to just the "traditional British scales" of 009, 016.5, SM32 and "SM45" but perhaps pollsters could broadly state their chosen prototypes in some kind of a link to the gauges/scales mentioned here ? Obviously not feasible for the 2012 poll, but something to consider for the future maybe. This would obviously exclude European and Continental narrow gauge subjects, which would considerably simplify the narrow gauge range, which could possibly further be simplified by country or region.

 

Just a thought for all those modellers who'd love a Campbelltown & Machrihanish 2-6-2 in 009 .

[Andy Y]

Please keep it to 2mm, 4mm etc SCALE and not have the gauge segregation that went before (00/EM/P4).

 

Exactly right; that's largely irrelevant within the scope of an RTR poll.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... The purpose of the Poll is: To enable the railway modelling and collecting community to let the major ready-to-run manufacturers and those who ‘commission’ models know which railway models they would like to see made from new tooling.

 

We don’t have a ‘go live’ date to give you at present, as we are awaiting confirmation of when Bachmann will announce its future programme ...

The intent is very good and well focussed, which is a welcome development.

 

An obvious implication of the abstracted sentences is that it will not be possible to place votes for items which have been announced as new tooling, and presumably reasonably newly tooled items also in production will not be in the lists either? Around this latter an interesting question revolves, which links to the 'Golden Pup'. What if a newly tooled model hasn't exactly pleased the customers? Any way to get such items into the lists as a vote for a better version despite the presence of a recently tooled model? Obviously I will lodge this question with the survey team using the link provided.

[BMacdermott]

Dear All

 

The Poll Team used the turn of the century as a 'cut-off date' for exclusion of items from new tooling. We thought long and hard as to whether we should keep in items that had had bad reviews, but decided against it. There will be a box at the end of the 2012 Poll for pollsters to suggest a small number of items for inclusion in 2013.

 

Rest assured that all improvement comments will be considered for the future.

 

Whilst writing, may I thank you all for your positive comments and support. After many months hard work, the Team is most grateful.

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[Peter Bedding]

I have enjoyed taking part in this annual light-hearted exercise in previous years. I also feel that my sentiments may have had some minor impact. So I shall look forward to the next session in 2012, hope for similar, and continue to support the suppliers who support my tastes.

 

PB

[Ozexpatriate]

I was delighted to hear that the hosting and execution of this poll is under new management this year. I look forward to better 'mechanics' in the implementation of the poll.

 

Polls are inherently problematic and despite some issues with the poll implementation, I nevertheless participated in it every year for a few years now and look forward with enthusiasm to the 2012 poll.

 

My fondest hope for the poll is that it could some day shed some clarity on interest in industrial locomotives. I can't speak in terms of business success, but the Sentinel 0-4-0T generated a lot of excitement. In the poll's prior form there was no mechanism for people to say "yes, I really want a prototype-based (not freelanced) small industrial steam locomotive, and care more that it looks like a real locomotive than insisting on an explicit locomotive" (like say an ex-Powlesland and Mason Peckett 0-4-0T as a completely arbitrary choice). Of course I don't really know and can't suggest exactly how that can be done. (Nor is this thread the place for such discussion.)

 

I think it's nice to see this kind of convergence in the on-line dimension of our hobby.

[Mike Bellamy]

My fondest hope for the poll is that it could some day shed some clarity on interest in industrial locomotives. I can't speak in terms of business success, but the Sentinel 0-4-0T generated a lot of excitement. In the poll's prior form there was no mechanism for people to say "yes, I really want a prototype-based (not freelanced) small industrial steam locomotive, and care more that it looks like a real locomotive

Agreed - look at all the postings here when Ontracks announced their Coal Board loco - said to be an Andrew Barclay (or Kerr Stuart) but now identified as a Spanish loco modelled in HO - just a repaint isn't good enough

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/47849-new-industrial-0-6-0t/page__fromsearch__1

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/42181-0-3-0-t-kerr-stuart/page__fromsearch__1

 

Mike

[Fenman]

In the poll's prior form there was no mechanism for people to say "yes, I really want a prototype-based (not freelanced) small industrial steam locomotive, and care more that it looks like a real locomotive than insisting on an explicit locomotive" (like say an ex-Powlesland and Mason Peckett 0-4-0T as a completely arbitrary choice).

Oo-er. I'd buy that. In fact, judging by my Hatton's bill this month, I'd probably buy several like that, actually.

 

Paul

[Neal Ball]

Are you deliberately early for April 2012? - Or late for April 2011? - Just wondered!!

 

I think the Poll will be fine, so long as you are able to get into production the required designs before the next Poll / Wishlist !! LOL indeed.

 

 

 

Almost forgot! - Isn't there a danger that by only including 2mm and 4mm , you will be called sizeist? - Or come under fire from the odd number brigade? - Just another random thought......

[Ozexpatriate]

Overall I think this is an excellent advance for the hobby and if it achieves the widespread participation which the team are hoping for it could become even more helpful to the manufacturers when combined with their own market research.

The notion of customer-driven market research is yet another example of the democratizing nature of the internet. It's quite revolutionary in it's own way and a better poll will produce better (meaning more accurate and reliable) data.

 

PS Are we now going to have a 'lobbying forum' where those with particular hopes can seek out their fellows (apart from the specialist areas which already exist)?

I would say that we have seen a number of those threads already. While we certainly don't need or want a 'lobbying forum" * I could imagine some of those threads reemerging vigourously in the spring.

Whan that Aprille with his shoures soote,

The droghte of March hath perced to the roote,

...

And specially, from every shires ende

Of Engelond, to Margate and Barwell they wende

Too much? No Chaucer fans? Anyone? Anyone?

 

* Your lobbying forum idea is amusing and ad absurdum, the corollary of the familiar, well-intentioned yet somehow not, "consensus building" thread, becomes instead, a "click here" button to view (or better yet, download) your vote for a pre-defined slate of options. (I'm thinking along the lines of the "how to vote for the xyz party" instruction card at general elections or a shareholder's proxy card to elect board members.) Sliding down the slippery slope of silliness, we arrive here - the end of the polls!

 

"Well pretty much as I predicted, except that the Silly party won."

 

Silliness aside, I'm anticipating a better run poll in 2012 and hoping to see greater participation. I think it's nice to know what other hobbyists think, and it puts the "they'd sell shed loads if only they made a [insert here]" kind of thinking in some perspective.

[Forester]

The unintended consequence of the present poll layout is that it encourages votes for the one-offs, the unusual, the spectacular. It works against the common-or-garden, the 0-6-0 goods or 4-4-0s in many minor variations which is what will produce long-term sales rather than the short-term interest of the Q1, the Ugly Ducking, the BP.

 

I'm not sure that is entirely good for the hobby in the long run.

 

For example South Eastern modellers need a 4-4-0, but which one? The L1 to replace the Triang? The D in the NRM? The E1 or D1 built in large numbers, The L for visual interest? The voting gets split and none ever gets near the higher reaches of the poll. Eastern and North-Eastern modellers have long battled for an 0-6-0 in similar circumstances.

 

 

I would like to see the poll start with a General Section. What major gaps need filling by something/anything? An Atlantic, a large Western tank, more 4-4-0s/0-6-0s....... Then get down to the detail by class. It would give producers an overview to set the detail wishlist in perspective.