Ian Fisher Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 There will be of course be some work to the inner ends, I took some images many years ago at York but for the life of me cant find them. Anyone else got some by any chance? I know they arent gangwayed fitted and remember the space for the gangway being a void that goes into the bodyshell. I have been carving some networker bodies too. So far the sides need to be widened by 1.5mm a side or there abouts to make them fit a Bratchell unit (321) for now taking up to remove fairing and then building back down to the buffer beam. Enjoying the read todate, keep up the good work Will! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 That's interesting Ian, I was assuming the Networker cab would be a bit wider than the MKIII bodyshell as it has a more 'bulging' appearance. When you look at a 325 cab, it looks as though the sides have been 'flattened' to suit the bodysides. From your experience, it looks as though we'll need to either file down the MkIII bodysides or build up the sides of the Networker cabs. Hmmm... Regarding the inner ends, yes, it appears that there is a recess where gangways would be - I believe the 325s were built for easy conversion to passenger trains if required. You can just make it out on the vehicles at either end of this rather murky photo (you might need to click on it to zoom in): Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Hi Will, I will be going building up the cab fronts, maybe a Bachmann 150 might fit? But the Bratchell 321 shell I have is 3mm wider than Hornby Networker So far the cab has had some screen taken away and cut back to the doors and neatened up, the lower faring has also been trimmed back. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Hi, I found this on youtube and thought it might be of help: It has some good shots of the front, side and roof. Hope this is of help and can't wait to see it progress! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Simon - I'll have a look at the video when I get home; we can't get onto YouTube at work Ian - I have just nipped across to the National Railway Museum to look at the Class 325 cab mock-up they have there. On inspection, I can see how the bodysides taper in sharply towards the cab front, so I guess this is the area we'll need to build up on the model. Although the mock-up is just that, and may differ from the production vehicles, I found some useful details which aren't visible on photos. Maybe next time I'll remember my camera... Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Fantastic video for Class 325 fans Simon, thanks for posting. I'll be referring back to this when I come to add some of the detail. I only noticed the blue warning lights on the bodyside illuminated in one image, and that was when the train was moving, so they can't be 'door unlocked' lights like the orange ones on passenger trains... does anyone know what the blue lights mean? Could it be something to do with the burglar alarm? Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I had a little rub with some emery last night to take out the "lump" so its more mark three profile. My plan is to add some strip in a series of layers taking them back to the required size and then, finnishing it with some filler, thats the pan anyways... I took loads of images of the mock up same day I struck lucky at York with a full set on the station, if only I backed up then! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Just had a brief session in the garage so I'll post a few photos of progress. Today's objective was to find out whether the original Class 150 glazing could be used to fill the window apertures. This seemed a bit extravagant at first, but I have no other use for the glazing, and the thought of cutting out 40 identical pieces of plastic and fettling them to a perfect fit in said orifices, well... Here's the original, unmodified window arrangement: Because there's a (green) frame moulded onto the body and a (silver) frame moulded onto the glazing, it's hard to tell whether the surface of the 'glass' is level with the bodyside, recessed, or slightly proud. So I scraped off both of the above frames using one of those flat knife blades which has the cutting edge at right angles to the handle: Looks a bit messy at this stage, but it is now possible to see that the glazing is just slightly proud of the bodyside. This would be obvious when painted, even with copious quantities of filler. So next I carefully rubbed down the glazing using increasingly finer grades of wet-and-dry paper. I also rubbed down the bodyside as despite my best knife-work there was still a subtle ridge around the window frame: This resulted in an incredibly flush-fitting window, so much so that barely any filler will be needed at all. This will be a much easier and neater way of plugging the window holes than cutting out bits of plastic. That's all for today; I'm quite pleased that I've found a way of simplifying possibly the most boring job of this conversion. Cheers, Will PS. While in the NRM today I also saw the beautiful 7mm scale model of a Class 325 unit by Michael Edge. If my model ends up looking half as good as this I'll be more than happy! If you're reading this Michael, I'm still interested in any castings you may have so please let me know what is available. Many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I wonder if Halfords still do a padded spray? Similair to their grey all purpose one but with that added bonus of some filler...a mustard yellow if I remember right would complete that a job a treat! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Ian - that might be a good idea for large, smooth areas but there is a surprising amount of detail I wouldn't want to obscure (door frames, gutters, etc.) Here are a few photos from the cab mock-up at the NRM. Please note that this won't be identical to the actual EMUs, but I picked up some useful details nonetheless. I apologise for the poor photography but I find the NRM a very gloomy place, and I didn't have a tripod with me. The bufferbeam area. Lots of detail here, including retractable buffers, drop-head buckeye, air brake pipes, multiple working jumpers and carriage lighting/TDM jumpers. The snowploughs were fitted to at least one of the units (325001) but more recent photos of other units show a flat-fronted obstacle deflector so that is what I shall build. The handrail across the cab front includes recesses for the windscreen wipers, rather than the latter being mounted behind the former as you might expect. The wipers are incomplete on the mock-up, but you get the picture. Note the thick rubber seal around the windscreen and up the central pillar - these aren't modelled on Hornby's windscreen. The cab door on the secondman's side. Note the windows are mounted off-centre, being closer to the cab front on both sides of the vehicle. The driver's side (not visible here) has a door open button just forward of the door, at 'solebar level', and a manual handle to the rear of the door. The 'Res' logo on the door isn't visible in recent photos. I took this one to show the difference between the 'Networker' cab profile, roughly represented by the area painted yellow, and the MkIII bodyside behind. This will be tricky to represent accurately so I can see several evenings of filling and sanding coming up! Behind the cab, air conditioning ducts go back into the van, indicating that the cab air-con unit was situated just here somewhere. This explains the purpose of the mysterious vent on the van roof a few feet behind the driver. The van interior, purely for interest. The door into the cab was provided as an emergency escape route for the driver. A rough-'n'-ready shot of the cab interior, with added gloom. These were some of the first units to be designed with 'crashworthiness' in mind, so the driver is positioned quite a way back from the windscreen with very deep panels surrounding the windscreen. And finally, the best photo I could get of Mike Edge's 7mm model. The photo doesn't do it justice, as it was in a poorly-lit glass case. While in the NRM, I popped into the 'Search Engine' (apparently this is a more trendy word than 'library') and looked up some old magazines from 1995, when the 325s were introduced. These produced a couple of useful facts and figures and even some basic dimensions. My final bit of research today was to look up the 325s in an old Platform 5 'BR Locomotives and Coaching Stock' book. This gives the vehicle codes as DTV (Driving Trailer Van), PMV (presumably Pantograph Motor Van, not Parcels Miscellaneous Vehicle a la SR!), TAV (Trailer Auxiliary Vehicle) and a further DTV. This differs from the codes I have used before (from Wikipedia) but matches a magazine article written by ABB and Royal Mail at the time of introduction, so is presumably correct. Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 5, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 5, 2012 I've not forgotten about this, just been digging through the vast amount of material I have on 325s. most of it came from ABB (as it was then). They couldn't provide any complete drawings (apparently GAs were unfashionable then) apart from a painting diagram. Using their detail drawings and this I produced my own, then modified the end profile to suit the Lima 150 I was building them on. I have lots of photos taken at Litchurch Lane, unfortunately these are on film, a couple of end views attached. 325s were built as normal passenger vehicles, including the window openings, but with a solid outer skin. The inner ends have a recess for a gangway connector. LIMA325.PDF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Thanks for sharing the photos and drawing, Michael. I found the inner end photo particularly useful, showing how deep the gangway recess is, and the position of the TOPS data label. I'll compare the dimensions of your drawing with my Bachmann bodyshells, bearing in mind that yours was designed to fit around the Lima body. Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Last night I rubbed down the bodysides of all four vehicles, leaving only the gutter strips and footsteps for the roller-shutter doors. I also rubbed down the original glazing for the whole train; this will be fitted once the 'destructive' work on the bodies has been completed (replacement of driving cabs, cutting-out of pantograph well, etc.) In the meantime I'm procuring motor bogie sideframes and underframe equipment. A discussion on another thread has got me thinking about the pantograph - I was going to use a Hurst Models kit which I had in stock for another project, but it might be better to build one from scratch. Anyway, there's no getting away from it now, I need to move on to the cab fronts. Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Will, I will post some of my cab carvings soon... its not to bad really just widen the sides out by 1.5mm each and then smooth n blend! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I plan to use these Bratchell ones on the 455 (which i'm sure are very simiilar if not the same). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hurst Models never responded to my query about lead times for their bogie sideframes, so I've made enquiries with Bratchell. The latter's product looks about right for the 325, but would benefit from the dampers being seperate parts, and the addition of brake equipment. I may even knock up a representation of the traction motors, as this bogie is a very 'open' design. Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 I got half an hour in the garage last night and used it to chop the Hornby Networker cabs off their bodies. There is a helpful moulding line down the inside of the cabside which was used as a guide for the razor saw, the roof being done by eye, cutting to the waste side. The cabs were then rubbed down on a piece of sandpaper laid on a flat surface (mirror), frequently checking until exactly the right amount of material was removed. This has left a nice flat join where the cabs will meet the body. The secondman's windows need opening up to full height and a rectangular marker light hole needs to be added to each light cluster. I'll fit working lights but unfortunately the original Bachmann lighting PCB is too wide, the Class 150 light clusters being further apart. As this model will run on DC, I may remove the inter-vehicle wiring and fit pickups to the driving cars. The beauty of this unit is the huge amount of internal space which can be filled with electronics and other gubbins, so I might throw together a constant-brightness gizmo for the lights. The footstep needs removing from the bottom of the cab front, being replaced with a small footstep in the centre only. Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I wonder how well a clear casting of the front cabs could work? I am thinking of making up a complete end ala Bratchell models clear end (I know these are injected) and then seeing how that might work. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Been trying ages now to uplaod some images via facebook and despite it saying five were up hours ago, one the poorest has just appeared! Not the best and a tad cruel but its getting the shape! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 A clear casting might be a good idea, but you'd have to mask it off very carefully when painting. The advantage of the Hornby cab is that the glazing can be popped in after painting. You're making good progress on your cab, why don't you start a thread? There seems to be a lot of interest in EMUs on RMWeb at the moment. Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 A bit of progress was made last night, as I took a deep breath and plunged the razor saw into the lovely Bachmann 150s: This shows my crude set-up for supporting the body in the vice while hacking away with the saw. Marking out the cutting line was quite tricky; a try square was held against the solebar and lines scribed up the sides, the square was then held against one of the longitudinal roof ridges to scribe across the roof. Here, the Networker cabs are roughly in their final positions, just balancing on a steel rule for the photo. When fixed, they'll be slightly higher up: You can just make out that I have rubbed down the rivets on the front of the roof; the ridges will also be extended right to the front of the MkIII body. I intend to get the cabs as close to completion as possible before fixing to the body, as they are very easy to work on as seperate components. Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Also last night, I made a start on the PMV (motor) vehicle by cutting out the pantograph well. First a guide line was scribed across the roof at a right angle. I then cut towards this line at an angle, aiming for the cut to meet the guide line at the same place on each side, if you follow me. A second cut was made into the vehicle end, just enough to break through the plastic. I cut between the two saw cuts using a small knife blade, as I needed the cut to be as thin as possible. I will be re-using the ridged roof section for other parts of the train. So here is the resulting hole before cleaning up with sandpaper and files. Only at this stage, while proudly admiring my handiwork, did I realise that I had cut the hole at the wrong end of the vehicle. I should, of course, have made it at the cab end, leaving the 'inner' end with no necesary changes. I'll now have to modify the cab end to look like an 'inner' end, but it's not the end of the world! Off to the garage now - Mrs J is out and I've got a good six hours to work on this Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Really nice cutting. It's nerve racking cutting into such nice items isn't it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Personally i would use at bratchell 319 as a basis... Absolutely, the Bratchell 319 would make for an easier conversion but I have used the 150s on cost grounds (one chassis can be used to give the 325 an excellent mechanism, the other will (hopefully!) sell well on eBay. Perhaps a happy medium is what Kintbury Jon is doing, using Class 150s plus Bratchell parts. Really nice cutting. It's nerve racking cutting into such nice items isn't it! Tell me about it! I've beein doing a bit more chopping today; post to follow... Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Today I have been working on the cab fronts. Firstly, the Bachmann chassis needs to be trimmed down in height until it is 4.5mm deep - this will let the cab sit at the right height: The top chassis is as supplied, the bottom one has been trimmed. The bufferbeam front detail is all removed and filed flush. Although not yet done on this photo, the bit which sticks out underneath the bufferbeam also needs to be removed. The cabs themselves can be improved, as below (modified cab on left, original on right): The base of the cab has been trimmed down (or should that be up?) and a recess made for the footstep; the secondman's window has been extended to the same height has the driver's; a rectangular hole has been added to the LH light cluster so I can display the daytime marker light; and finally a window-sill and central pillar have been added to give the impression of an interior. I'll only add a full cab desk if it's obvious when the unit is finished. Perching the cab and body on the chassis: From the photos of the real thing (see NRM mock-up in earlier post) the bufferbeam side-skirts follow the profile of the MkIII body so I have added the bottom portions of the redundant 150 cab to the chassis as a starting point. Much more plastic and filler will be added before the effect is complete! Back to the garage, I can probably get another couple of hours in without being noticed... Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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