railwayrod Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) I mentioned in the post above that my friend Peter Martin came round to help with the initial installation of my new DCC system and promised some photos of the event. The first picture shows Peter's Minerva Pannier tank with sound but as yet awaiting numbering. It is seen standing in Ramchester's platform. This is, I have to say, an excellent model. The next picture shows it standing next to my Minerva Victory which is also sound fitted. The third picture is of Peter's 08 by Dapol again an excellent model. Next the 08 takes a trip along the line. And finally for now the 08 standing alongside my Victory Rod Edited October 11, 2017 by railwayrod 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I mentioned in the post above that my friend Peter Martin came round to help with the initial installation of my new DCC system and promised some photos of the event. The first picture shows Peter's Minerva Pannier tank with sound but as yet awaiting numbering. It is seen standing in Ramchester's platform. This is, I have to say, an excellent model. DSC01978 (2).JPG The next picture shows it standing next to my Minerva Victory which is also sound fitted. DSC01979 (2).JPG The third picture is of Peter's 08 by Dapol again an excellent model. DSC01982 (2).JPG Next the 08 takes a trip along the line. DSC01983 (2).JPG And finally for now the 08 standing alongside my Victory DSC01983 (2).JPG Rod I approve of most of this post. ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railwayrod Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Spent this afternoon moving out the "stuff" which normally sits beneath the layout i.e. LGB stock, cupboards, other stock, etc. This has allowed me to take a close look at the wiring underneath which will need to be modified in order for the layout to become DCC. I found out that I had wired the layout in a most peculiar way but in DC mode it works. I will have to consult Peter to see if I can get away with a partial rewire or whether I will have to rewire the lot. From my observations I think that I can get away with a partial rewire of some of the sections in which case this will be a fairly straight forward task. Time will tell. Peter is coming here on Monday afternoon to give me a hand. Watch this space. Rod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Spent this afternoon moving out the "stuff" which normally sits beneath the layout i.e. LGB stock, cupboards, other stock, etc. This has allowed me to take a close look at the wiring underneath which will need to be modified in order for the layout to become DCC. I found out that I had wired the layout in a most peculiar way but in DC mode it works. I will have to consult Peter to see if I can get away with a partial rewire or whether I will have to rewire the lot. From my observations I think that I can get away with a partial rewire of some of the sections in which case this will be a fairly straight forward task. Time will tell. Peter is coming here on Monday afternoon to give me a hand. Watch this space. Rod Rod, It couldn't be simpler. If you have section switches to convert to DCC just turn them on and leave them on. If you have isolating sections which go dead when the point is thrown against them then gap the rail behind the crossing and run a new wire to the rail. Both of my layouts are wired to the same scheme. Every piece of rail is wired to one or other of the DCC bus-bars (no reliance is placed on rail joiners) except for the crossings which are polarity switched. The only possible complication is a diamond crossing and I don't think you have any on your layout? Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railwayrod Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Thanks Chaz. I think I have sorted out what needs to be done and Peter is coming round tomorrow to give me a hand. As you know my eyesight is very poor and soldering to rails near the back of the layout is virtually impossible for me to see to undertake. If I did not have self isolating points it would not be necessary to do anything. Me thinks Rod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Thanks Chaz. I think I have sorted out what needs to be done and Peter is coming round tomorrow to give me a hand. As you know my eyesight is very poor and soldering to rails near the back of the layout is virtually impossible for me to see to undertake. If I did not have self isolating points it would not be necessary to do anything. Me thinks Rod Quite right Rod, of course self-isolating points are only a problem for DCC if you have locos with sound. They will suddenly go silent when point is thrown against them and may well take a while to go through their start-up procedure, especially diesels, when power is restored. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Points are all, supposidely, 'dcc ready', but shorts and long term reliability can soon make them less so. However best practice in wiring Points applies to both DC and/or DCC. Hardwiring and providing 'Frog' switching soon sorts that though. 'Fishplates' are resistance points and can 'wear' on garden layouts, so always best to wire, each and every rail to the BUS. Kindest, M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Points are all, supposidely, 'dcc ready', but shorts and long term reliability can soon make them less so. However best practice in wiring Points applies to both DC and/or DCC. Hardwiring and providing 'Frog' switching soon sorts that though. 'Fishplates' are resistance points and can 'wear' on garden layouts, so always best to wire, each and every rail to the BUS. Kindest, M. Rail-joiners do actually move on the rails - or at least on one of the two. Expansion and contraction, however slight, will cause slight movements and the presence of moisture (even on the driest material a thin film of moisture is ever-present we are told) will promote a loss of contact. Better not to place reliance on joiners for electrical continuity. They do a good job maintaining physical alignment and for that reason I keep installing them. On my On30 layout I am soldering one joiner to each rail and soldering the feed wire to the underside of the joiner. The next rail is slipped in with a small gap to allow for expansion. Its feed is at the other end, as so on along the track.... Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Conversely, I'm using C&L cosmetic plastic fishplates, which do maintain alignment, but provide no current carrying capacity whatsoever. This does tend to promote fitting a dropper to every rail. My rails are cut into (notional) 311mm (44' 6") lengths, except where I can hide the subterfuge of only cutting the head, and gluing the fishplate on the visible side... this of course saves two droppers per length of rail. My droppers are soldered to the foot of the rail, or the side you can't see without a mirror, and are collected into earthing blocks (Screwfix, but other suppliers exist) and these are connected back to the supply with solid copper mains cable. Best Simon 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railwayrod Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 We have made a start on rewiring the layout but owing to the tangle of wires under the baseboard progress was not as fast as we had hoped. However the bit we have done has been checked and tested with my Victory and all seems to be well. We will have a further session hopefully on Wednesday afternoon if Peter is able to make it. So far so good and I am sure that the rest will not take as long. While Peter and I were involved in this task Howard gave my Dapol meat van a further wash of paint. It is surprising how the outside now differs from the moulded colour of the inside of this van. great stuff. Rod 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Rail-joiners do actually move on the rails - or at least on one of the two. Expansion and contraction, however slight, will cause slight movements and the presence of moisture (even on the driest material a thin film of moisture is ever-present we are told) will promote a loss of contact. Better not to place reliance on joiners for electrical continuity. They do a good job maintaining physical alignment and for that reason I keep installing them. On my On30 layout I am soldering one joiner to each rail and soldering the feed wire to the underside of the joiner. The next rail is slipped in with a small gap to allow for expansion. Its feed is at the other end, as so on along the track.... Chaz Hi Chaz, On indoor layouts, I have done the same, but it's not best practice to solder wire to a NS fishplate on a garden line, due to connectivety, fishplate 'wear' etc.... Conversely, I'm using C&L cosmetic plastic fishplates, which do maintain alignment, but provide no current carrying capacity whatsoever. This does tend to promote fitting a dropper to every rail. My rails are cut into (notional) 311mm (44' 6") lengths, except where I can hide the subterfuge of only cutting the head, and gluing the fishplate on the visible side... this of course saves two droppers per length of rail. My droppers are soldered to the foot of the rail, or the side you can't see without a mirror, and are collected into earthing blocks (Screwfix, but other suppliers exist) and these are connected back to the supply with solid copper mains cable. Best Simon Hi Simon Nice ideas. Soldering droppers so as to hide them, whilst being able to maintain them isnt always compatible. I HAVE to use NS fishplates in the garden for longevity of alignment, as the track is.held in place by track-pins and fishplates only. ATVB CME 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Horses for courses! I wouldn't use cosmetic styrene fishplates outdoors either - the sun would rot them in weeks (well, in the summer, anyhow). Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railwayrod Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 On my earlier G scale layout outdoors (now defunct) I soldered the fishplate to one rail of each length of track to minimise electrical failure. In addition to that I bonded each rail across every joint. I have to say that the work involved was considerable but I never had an electrical failure in the nearly 20 years that the line was running. Rod 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) On the thin 00/0 NS fishplates a jumper wire can also cause resistance issues in that area. With a BUS all one has to do, is wire droppers to that. Its a chore and coupled with my Op., three months back, plus recovery time, I didnt make much progress with wiring this year. ATVB CME Edited October 17, 2017 by CME and Bottlewasher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) Hi Chaz, On indoor layouts, I have done the same, but it's not best practice to solder wire to a NS fishplate on a garden line, due to connectivety, fishplate 'wear' etc.... Even if the joiner is itself soldered to the rail? I do this on the underside of the joiner and "pull" the solder from the end of the joiner on to the rail itself. I don't solder the joiner from the top as the risk is of filling the open end. Chaz Edited October 19, 2017 by chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Even if the joiner is itself soldered to the rail? I do this on the underside of the joiner and "pull" the solder from the end of the joiner on to the rail itself. I don't solder the joiner from the top as the risk is of filling the open end. Chaz Hi Chaz, I wouldnt want to solder a FP to a rail in the garden, the rail needs the FPs to be lubricated and to move so as to allow for expansion and contraction. Also the NS FPs are thin/weak and even just soldering a wire to the underside, will increase maintenance and possibly failures too...So, I wouldnt want to risk it, for reliability and longevity Id rather solder to the rail on a garden line. Indoors, if not using cosmetic plates, then soldering wire-to underside of FP/to a FP, is a cosmetically and reliably sound way to go, Ive done so in other scales. ATVB CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railwayrod Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Howard and I had a play this afternoon with "Victory" and ECoS and all seems to be well. Just a couple more sidings and the bay to sort out which will be done on Friday (hopefully). Next job is to get my locos packed and sent off for chipping which should be very soon. All for now. rod 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railwayrod Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 It is done!!! The layout re wire is now complete as far as the track is concerned. The points and signals will remain as they are , at least for the time being but perhaps one day I will look to change this. I am still very new to DCC and on a steep learning curve but slowly, very slowly, I am getting there. Next job is to finish packing my locos (steam only) prior to them being sent off for chip fitting, my diesels will follow later on. These are very exciting times for Ramchester and I cant wait to see and hear my Black 5 chuffing into the station with its train of coaches. Great stuff. Rod 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 It is done!!! The layout re wire is now complete as far as the track is concerned. The points and signals will remain as they are , at least for the time being but perhaps one day I will look to change this. I am still very new to DCC and on a steep learning curve but slowly, very slowly, I am getting there. Next job is to finish packing my locos (steam only) prior to them being sent off for chip fitting, my diesels will follow later on. These are very exciting times for Ramchester and I cant wait to see and hear my Black 5 chuffing into the station with its train of coaches. Great stuff. Rod Hi Rod/Howard, Any reason why youre risking sending your locos away, as opossed to you or Howard fitting the decoders?? Kindest, CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) The first one is a bit scary. After that, it’s not difficult! Fine solder, fine wire, pointy soldering iron are needed. Some offcuts of veroboard, shrink wrap, & double sided sticky tape are useful. Best Simon Edited October 28, 2017 by Simond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) The first one is a bit scary. After that, it’s not difficult! Fine solder, fine wire, pointy soldering iron are needed. Some offcuts of veroboard, shrink wrap, & double sided sticky tape are useful. Best Simon Hi Simon, Some are even easier with a plug and play wiring harness - then one is only soldering to motor wires/pickups! In 7mm we are still the poor cousin in terms of plug and play connectivity, dont know why on RTR 'cause the components are cheap. ATVB CME Edited October 28, 2017 by CME and Bottlewasher 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railwayrod Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Fine detail work is beyond me as my sight does not really allow me to solder. To do this I would have to use at least a 20 - 24 dioptre lens and this means that my eye would have to be about 5cm from the work. Also at this strength it is unlikely that both eyes could be used and of course the field of vision is very restricted. Add to that the cost of sound chips is fairly high and I do not feel competent or confident enough to risk damaging the chip or indeed the loco while working at such close distances with a very hot iron. All in all I feel that it is better for me to pay someone who knows what he is doing to fit the chips for me. I wish I could do it myself but my vision does not allow this. I enjoy my modelling and on jobs that I cannot do I am happy to find someone to help me. Howard has done a great deal for me on the layout but he cannot do everything for me as he had his own layout to build and his life to live. Rod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Rod, I’m sure that soldering is not a good thing to do at that kind of proximity. Far too risky in case of a slip, and the fumes would be most unpleasant if not thoroughly dangerous. Plug & play is obviously a good solution for those locos equipped, though in our scale they are something of a minority. I’m sure your decision is the right one. Looking forward to seeing (and hearing!) the results. Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I understand Rod....guessing that most of your locos are kit builds with no chance of plug and play? Kindest, CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Hi Simon, Some are even easier with a plug and play wiring harness - then one is only soldering to motor wires/pickups! In 7mm we are still the poor cousin in terms of plug and play connectivity, dont know why on RTR 'cause the components are cheap. ATVB CME Ahem. All Ixion and Minerva locos are fitted with an 8-pin DCC socket. I wish that my collection of Western Region diesel hydraulic locomotives were as simple to fit with DCC. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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