Ogauge83A Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Last nights (23rd January) Up sleeper service was hauled by 43135 and 43141 towing 57602, due to a fault on the locomotive, from Penzance to Newton Abbot where the 57 carried on solo. This is a picture of the train after arrival at Newton Abbot before the power cars were removed http://antony-christie.blogspot.com/2012/01/first-great-western-drag-24th-january.html Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 How odd. Presumably not a positioning move, perhaps a "helping hand" over the Devon Banks? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogauge83A Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 There has been several quotes what was wrong with the 57, but yes it was for a helping hand through Cornwall and the Devon Banks, its happened several times before in service and ecs where power cars have been used to drag the train, mainly because since there are no locos in fpr FGW to use in the south west 2 PCs are the next best thing rather than cancelling or substituting a full HST (and the associated Sleeper ecs moves the next day) Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogauge83A Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Thats ok Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted January 24, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2012 Thanks for the link, I've not seen the blog before but very interesting as you're covering my "home area" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Definitely a good picture for the "that would never happen" brigade for that unusual working... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogauge83A Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi Rich, the blog started just before Christmas, used to have a fotopic site but as that went down took time to think about doing another site, got loads to add.. Mr Cromptonnut, the one that probably would be a 'that never happened' is the night a Cotswold 47 hire in was put on at Penzance, and that failed with an AWS fault so they put a pair of pcs on the front of the 47 to Plymouth (where the loco was turned via Laira triangle).... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The only time I travelled on the down sleeper form Paddington, it left the capital behind ONE class 50, had a second put on at Bristol, and a 31 added at Taunton for over the Devon Banks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted January 24, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2012 Wasn't that the original idea behind HST power cars, passenger trains during the day, freight at night? Until someone pointed out that they would need day to day maintenance, especially as they would be clocking up an average of 1000 miles per day. Kevin Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The only time I travelled on the down sleeper form Paddington, it left the capital behind ONE class 50, had a second put on at Bristol, and a 31 added at Taunton for over the Devon Banks. Ditto, the only time I did the Down Midnight was in a Mk1 sleeper, leaving Padd behind 47082 and arriving Penzance behind 50024. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdlcs Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Wasn't that the original idea behind HST power cars, passenger trains during the day, freight at night? Kevin Martin Hello. Not sure about freight, but yes, the prototype HST power cars were buffer fitted (and wired) so that they might be used as 'conventional' locomotives when not attached to HST rakes. Think the idea was more for sleepers - and possibly NPCCS - rather than the troublesome trucks though. Hope this helps, David. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2012 Happened a couple of weeks ago to the Down sleeper as well, the 57 failed in the Exeter area, I think, and passed though South Devon very late with a pair of HST power cars hauling the 57 and the train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogauge83A Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Happened a couple of weeks ago to the Down sleeper as well, the 57 failed in the Exeter area, I think, and passed though South Devon very late with a pair of HST power cars hauling the 57 and the train. Yes i think it did, the 57 failed at Exeter and train was replaced by a 150 before the powercars hauled the ecs to Laira There was another drag the previous morning to the one I photographed, the same locomotive and same powercars from Exeter to Penzance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The 57 had low power reported on the down trip so the 43s were sent to PZ during the day and used as an assurance on the up trip as no defect was found on the 57. The Cotswold 47 debacle can be seen on the Sulzer-power website. The use of 43s is now standard as Thunderbirds for D & C . The far west thunderbird 08 410 is now replaced by 08 644 which is not fit for mainline use ( still running as a 0-2-4 on one side ) so this does not help either ! Hot off the press from FGW managment 23/1/12 is that investigations are being sought as to re-wire the Sleeper stock to 3 phase for use by a single 43 when the 57s finally DIE ( which as at today only 2 out of 4 are servicable will be soon ! ). Personally i dont think that this option is viable due to length/power ratio of train but when questioned, all i got was " no high speed is required " !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heruss Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Fascinating picture and very interesting to see that sort of working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hot off the press from FGW managment 23/1/12 is that investigations are being sought as to re-wire the Sleeper stock to 3 phase for use by a single 43 when the 57s finally DIE ( which as at today only 2 out of 4 are servicable will be soon ! ). Personally i dont think that this option is viable due to length/power ratio of train but when questioned, all i got was " no high speed is required " !!! Interesting to hear that. As you say a single 43 sounds a little optimistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Interesting to hear that. As you say a single 43 sounds a little optimistic. But a single power car in good nick can shift 440 tons along the WR mainline on the level at 110 - 115 mph - they just take a while to crank up to that speed. With the slower sleeper schedules and no dead 80 ton power car in the formation, the Night Riviera sets should be well within their capability - after all, the Warships had a similar (nominal) horsepower rating and they used to take 14 coach trains down to the west of England in 60s - and most of the reference works suggest that the hydraulics very rarely put out anything approaching their quoted power rating. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2012 But a single power car in good nick can shift 440 tons along the WR mainline on the level at 110 - 115 mph - they just take a while to crank up to that speed. With the slower sleeper schedules and no dead 80 ton power car in the formation, the Night Riviera sets should be well within their capability Devon and Cornwall are anything but level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Devon and Cornwall are anything but level. So what happens these days when an HST heads west through Whiteball on one engine? In the old days, they used to stop at St David's to be assisted by whatever loco was handy in the sidings, because of fears about flogging onwards on one power car. I might be wrong, but I thought that they are now authorised to continue on one engine unless the remaining operational power car is sickly - if this is correct, the Night Rivo should be a doddle, as the formation weighs around 80 tons less than a 2+8 HST and is much less tightly timed. If the nominally 2,200-ish rated Warships could take 14 coaches over Dainton and Rattery, I'd be very surprised if a single power car couldn't manage 8 Mark 3s. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 A good photo and idea for the 'prototype for everything' department! I did once see a photo in the 90s of a HST with just 2 coaches replacing a lack of DMUs. So my Hornby trainset of the 80s was correct after all. But what versatile engines/trains 35years on. You couldn't do this with a voyager! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogauge83A Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 The 57 had low power reported on the down trip so the 43s were sent to PZ during the day and used as an assurance on the up trip as no defect was found on the 57. The Cotswold 47 debacle can be seen on the Sulzer-power website. The use of 43s is now standard as Thunderbirds for D & C . The far west thunderbird 08 410 is now replaced by 08 644 which is not fit for mainline use ( still running as a 0-2-4 on one side ) so this does not help either ! Hot off the press from FGW managment 23/1/12 is that investigations are being sought as to re-wire the Sleeper stock to 3 phase for use by a single 43 when the 57s finally DIE ( which as at today only 2 out of 4 are servicable will be soon ! ). Personally i dont think that this option is viable due to length/power ratio of train but when questioned, all i got was " no high speed is required " !!! i doubt it'll just have just one power car as running via the Southern (Exeter to Yeovil to Castle Cary etc), as the train sleeper does quite often, requires a reversal at Exeter. I guess if fgw had the spare power cars back when the 57/6s were thought about or when they refurbished the Sleeper coaches a few years back the train would've been an HST service by now and i wouldnt have been able to photograph all these odd workings lol! Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Lets not forget that part of a 43's power is used for the air-con and mobile phone charger sockets and all that gumff ! Ive been running single 43s with mk1s since 1977 with no problems ( well apart from added weight ). oo gauge We wait and see. First may not even win the 2013 games. Then there is the Eurolights, 67s, Scotrail rehash in 2014, poss.open access Sleeper operator......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 i doubt it'll just have just one power car as running via the Southern (Exeter to Yeovil to Castle Cary etc), as the train sleeper does quite often, requires a reversal at Exeter. Very good point Tony - and a single west-facing power car arriving at Penzance each morning would give Long Rock a bit of an operational problem by the end of the week! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Very good point Tony - and a single west-facing power car arriving at Penzance each morning would give Long Rock a bit of an operational problem by the end of the week! Now if only the GW engineering staff at the west country depots could invent a compact flat thing, the size of a loco, a bit like a table, that you could turn through 180 degrees, they'd be on to a winner. You could call it a Rotary Unidirectional Driving Device Yaw Helper (Ex Laira & LongRock). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 A solution to the continuing Class 57 problems needs to be found 45 year old locomotives even though they have been rebuilt (with secondhand engines).as they no longer up to the job. Maybe DRS could sub lease some of their new Vossloh Eurolights to FGW, when they receive them? XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.