Colin parks Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Hi Natalie, Rotation problems are no problem to me! The DTCL in your photo is of great interest as it shows the vehicle with the longer yellow stripe, extending over all three windows. So this must be the DTCL from end 'B', the one that would be coupled to the SO ( unless this preserved coach has had one first class compartment re-instated . It is also useful to have a picture of the end showing the electrical connection boxes. I am assuming that the units had all the same boxes down one side, so I am getting a clearer picture as to how all the components locate. Many thanks, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 It felt like one step forwards and two steps back last night. Having made all the inner end gangways from Slater's 20 thou. black Plastikard, I found that the shrouds were 1mm too low! All the inner ends are now corrected and the process of fettling each gangway to each shroud is taking place. The photos show the gangway lightly pressed into the shroud. No attempt has been made to represent any detail such as the dorrway, as these ends will not been seen in normal use. These connectors are quite different in profile to the loco-hauled Mk.1 type. (Still some sanding to do around the shroud I see.) I hope to spring the gangways so that they remain in close contact. I have had a look at the Sergent coupling website. I think I'll have to have a pair of their buckeye couplings at least on the outer ends. For now, I'll stick to the plan and keep the Bachmann fittings to couple the vehicles. I am also having difficulty in posting pictures correctly. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Hi Natalie, Rotation problems are no problem to me! The DTCL in your photo is of great interest as it shows the vehicle with the longer yellow stripe, extending over all three windows. So this must be the DTCL from end 'B', the one that would be coupled to the SO ( unless this preserved coach has had one first class compartment re-instated . It is also useful to have a picture of the end showing the electrical connection boxes. I am assuming that the units had all the same boxes down one side, so I am getting a clearer picture as to how all the components locate. Many thanks, Colin Just a quick update- the DTC in the photos is S76746 which whilst on the GCR was facing towards Loughborough. Next to this was the DMBS 62384, followed by the ex BIG TRB 69339 then DTC S76817. Both DTCs have the longer yellow stripe extending over all three windows. Regarding the end connection boxes those on the DTC ends appear to be bigger than the others. Additionally the DMBS has an additional socket- which looks like a power connection but I need to take a closer look. I do at least have full length pictures of all the coaches from both sides so hope that is of use. There are some of B5(s) bogies too on their own- ie with no vehicle above them- is that of any use? I can also confirm that the footstep only appeared on the right hand side of the inside end of each DTC. Are you going to add the distinctive pipes that emerge from beneath the toilet compartments- for 'non station use' I presume... Are you interested in the shots of the BIG buffet for a project at a later date ? I am sure that I did take some of the TSO that was removed whilst it was still at Swithland- but it was an ex CEP vehicle as the GCR unit was previously 1393- but I am having some difficulty locating them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Additionally the DMBS has an additional socket- which looks like a power connection but I need to take a closer look. Yep, That is the 'Shed { Traction } Supply' Socket for allowing the unit to driven in and out of Sheds that were/are not fitted with 3rd rail ( imagine a cable on a large electrified curtain track !! ) Some chaos Was/Has/Will be caused if the shunter forgets it's still connected . Laterly only fitted directly to Motor Coaches ( CIG/VEP/REP ) so you find them on the coach ends, EPB's/HAP's/MLV's/CEP's etc have them on the outer ends of the units under the 2nd mans window with a grey insulating board under the socket. Are you interested in the shots of the BIG buffet for a project at a later date ? I am sure that I did take some of the TSO that was removed whilst it was still at Swithland- but it was an ex CEP vehicle as the GCR unit was previously 1393- but I am having some difficulty locating them. I think for completness they should be put up here . I have some of the TSB from The Spa Vally somewhere too, which I'll lob up here .. Cheers, Mike Edit :- Spelling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Natalie, if you wish to upload your photos that colin might find useful in higher resolution to either rmweb or flickr and need a faster net connection, feel free to pop round. Edited to add: think if theres a large number of photos they'd probably be best put in the galleries and linked to from here, more accessible for others not reading this thread who might be interested also that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 With thanks to Natalie and Meld for clarifying points such as the shed supply box and foot steps. Shots of the 4 BIG would be of interest, as I am having windows for the buffet car etched too (not that I caould run an 8-car train. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Natalie, if you wish to upload your photos that colin might find useful in higher resolution to either rmweb or flickr and need a faster net connection, feel free to pop round. Edited to add: think if theres a large number of photos they'd probably be best put in the galleries and linked to from here, more accessible for others not reading this thread who might be interested also that way. You could be right about the photos of 4 CIGs going on the gallery Kelly, What with photos posted on this topic and those sent for private viewing, I have about 200 to look at now! It still seems worth having photos pertinent to the stages of building the model here Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 You could be right about the photos of 4 CIGs going on the gallery Kelly, What with photos posted on this topic and those sent for private viewing, I have about 200 to look at now! It still seems worth having photos pertinent to the stages of building the model here Colin Yes, pertinent ones illustrating a point would work well. I know with Natalie's internet connection being a 3G dongle she might struggle to upload a large number, hence my suggestion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 A trip down to my friend Mark today yielded some Slater's coupling hook springs for the 4 CIG's corridor gangways. The gangways are numbered to fit exactly at the respective numbered ends. I drilled a hole through the Bachmann coach end, centred on the door. Then, placing the gangway part snugly into the shroud, drilled lightly back through the end from the inside to mark the place where the guide-rod should be fixed. A piece of plastic rod was fixed to the back of the gangway with both solvent and superglue. Once the rod, (now with half a spring threaded on), was passed through the end, a collar of plastic tube was slid on and the rod end crimped with pliers. I will have to remove the gangways for painting. Tonight will be spent looking through all the photos to be sure of the fittings that need to be made for this vehicle's ends (including the shed socket Meld). Oh yes, when I get to the DTCL's they will have the waste pipes Natalie! Colin Edited because even I didn't understand the second sentence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Question. When going around curves will the connectors jam? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Question. When going around curves will the connectors jam? I don't know yet Mike. Why should they? Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 As the connector inner rotates the spigot will move off the perpendicular and if there is insufficient clearance could jam. Curve radius will have an impact as well. It all depends on the clearances in the various fittings. Might be worth doing two coach ends and trying them out on the layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 As the connector inner rotates the spigot will move off the perpendicular and if there is insufficient clearance could jam. Curve radius will have an impact as well. It all depends on the clearances in the various fittings. Might be worth doing two coach ends and trying them out on the layout. Hi Mike, I can see your point. and I have spent quite a while fitting each gangway to its respective shroud to avoid any jamming. The resultant gaps will be hard to see when the unit is coupled. (There are no intermediate buffers, so the coaches will only be approx. 8mm apart on the straight. However, I am using the Bachmann close coupling parts which push the NEM socket forwards. Also, the gangways I have made can move in all directions, as the spigot is not a tight fit in the hole through the end of the coach. On this design of corridor connection shroud effectively keeps the gangway in line and the spring self-centres it. It had ocurred to me to have a horizontal slot in the coach end for the spigot to turn left or right on curves, but the compression of the spring would prevent much latitude. As you say, two coaches so fitted are needed to prove the design - it is worth a try. If it doesn't work, the ends will be glued in place after painting. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Detailing one end of the MBSO has been attempted wih the aid of photos. In this case, mostly referring to Gareth's pictures, I have added the steps, junction box and shed socket to the end facing cab 'A'. A little bit of works needs to be done to tidy up around the corridor connection, which is shown fully extended and far more than it will be when coupled. The sides of the corridor connection shroud have been splayed slightly to allow for the gangway to turn on curves The shed socket has been modelled witht the cap hanging down. There are steps on the other side of the gangway, the only ones on the whole unit as far as I can tell. Colin That's funny, I had deleted the second photo! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Great modeling so far Colin. Keep the updates coming Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Great modeling so far Colin. Keep the updates coming Thanks Kelly, I've made parts for the other end of the MBSO tonight. One thing that caught me out was that the shed socket (the part with the bent conduit to it) should be at an angle. It didn't take much to sort out luckily. I have spent ages this evening staring at all the photos tryng to work out which connections are on which vehicle and at which end. Without definitive plans, photos are the only resource. I'm still not certain if the boxes and electrical connections on the DTCLs are the same or handed. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I'm still not certain if the boxes and electrical connections on the DTCLs are the same or handed. Colin Colin. The electrical Boxes are the same on both DTCL's when viewed fron the inner ends, but become 'handed' when you turn one round to point in the opposite direction ... the electrical 'cross over' is done on the MBSO so these would be handed on the diagonal when viewed from above. I have found a few more pics from the Sussex Slammer tour of 1866 joining the tour at London Bridge which is the opposite way round to 1805 and hope that this can help you out a bit more .... Mike 1866............ DTCL - TS TS - MBSO MBSO - DTCL ALSO to help here is a heavily lightened MBSO - TS on the other side ( with Body end steps now visable on the end of the MBSO behind the Handrail - D'oh !! ), but of 1805, I've also re-visited page 3 and put the coach to coach above the pictures as an edit to try to make things clearer ( if it helps ! ). I do not have any views looking the opposite way onto either ends of the MBSO for some reason. Finally after a bit of digging I have found the counter side of TSB 69318 From the Chappel, Wakes and Colne Rly, note it now rides on CW bogies ! Still looking for the others, but they may have been on a now dead HD that wasn't fully backed up to Portable .. if so will pop down to TWRPS and get some more in the near future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 The shed socket has been modelled witht the cap hanging down. Hi Colin. Great modelling there ... Just remember to add the 'Flash Plate' that gos with the shed socket, not easy to see but visable in the pic of the MBSO -DTCL, as a grey( ish! ) rectangle. I posted above of 1866. HTH Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hi Colin. Great modelling there ... Just remember to add the 'Flash Plate' that gos with the shed socket, not easy to see but visable in the pic of the MBSO -DTCL, as a grey( ish! ) rectangle. I posted above of 1866. HTH Mike Thanks Mike, The pictures and clarification of the position of the electrical connections is a relief! Last night the connector detail was added to the van end of the MBSO. I had already worked out - or hoped I had, that the connections were diagonally opposite. So, as you have confirmed that the DTCL fittings are identical, the SO must have had connections down the R/H side when looking from cab 'A'. There are fewer pictures of the SO vehicles, so I'm not quite clear if they had identical fittings at each end. One point of regret is that all the jumper cables will have to be omitted, unless they are left hanging. Then there are the ETH sockest and connectors...... Re. that flash plate: I must confess the plate is missing fron the first end of the MBSO that was modelled. I might be able to add an 'L' shaped piece of plastic sheet around the socket mount. It's pretty odd that the shed socket is at an angle, but I've modelled them as per the photos. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Thanks Mike, The pictures and clarification of the position of the electrical connections is a relief! Last night the connector detail was added to the van end of the MBSO. I had already worked out - or hoped I had, that the connections were diagonally opposite. So, as you have confirmed that the DTCL fittings are identical, the SO must have had connections down the R/H side when looking from cab 'A'. There are fewer pictures of the SO vehicles, so I'm not quite clear if they had identical fittings at each end. One point of regret is that all the jumper cables will have to be omitted, unless they are left hanging. Then there are the ETH sockest and connectors...... Re. that flash plate: I must confess the plate is missing fron the first end of the MBSO that was modelled. I might be able to add an 'L' shaped piece of plastic sheet around the socket mount. It's pretty odd that the shed socket is at an angle, but I've modelled them as per the photos. Colin Hi Colin. Yes, the TS connections are down one side and are identical at both ends. The single cable connection on the oppsite side ( ETH, or return control circuit ? ) appers to be a socket on the DTCL - TS end ( The cable coming from the DTCL ) and a cable on the TS - MBSO ( with a socket on the MBSO at then end. Again this single cable will cross over on the MBSO and is also a socket on the MBSOat the DTC end too. Remember to cross the inter car air hoses over under the Buckeyes . Jim Smith-Wright made working pipe connections from bungie strap elastic and miniature round magnets .. http://www.p4newstreet.com/ , Look under Articles and then 'Working Brake Pipes'. a pair of magnets on a small strip of plastic to sit flush with the bottom of a Cable box ??? I suspect that it is at an angle due to making it easier for groundstaff to place the shed supply cable in with out going too far in between the two coaches ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Well Mike, Thanks for the clarification re. the TSO vehicle fittings. So, the junction boxes are the same as those on the MBSO, minus the shed sockets. It appears that there are steps and a handrail at the 'B' end of the TSO coach. There are less photos of 4 CIG TSOs, so if anyone has a picture showing the roof and steps at the 'B' end of the coach, that would be great. Meanwhile, work continues with the inner ends. The DTCL ones are complete apart from some sanding. Magnetic jumper cable connections?! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 The devil is in the detail. After the inner ends, I thought the MBSO's underframe equipiment would make an easy project. Well, the resistance motor box wasn't too bad, just a handle was added to that. But then came the resistance banks - not so easy. I wasted a whole evening making up some resistances to go in the two boxes: four pieces of .042" wound guitar string looked about to scale, but try as I might, it was a complete mess. It had occurred to me to try lengths of 12BA brass bolt, then I thought: "what about threading some plastic rod?". A length of 1.5mm plastic rod was surprisingly easily turned, between finger and thumb, into an 80mm length of 12 BA plastic studding. This was chopped up into 7.5mm lengths and fitted into the boxes between strips of plastic with 0.5mm rod at 2mm intervals to represent the bolts which hold the resistances. It's not perfect, but gives a 3-D effect which should look good with some weathering applied. There is a pronounced arch in the underframe which still needs straightening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Very nice looking Colin and a very simple way around the problem. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Very nice looking Colin and a very simple way around the problem. Pete Thanks Pete, The real components for the resistances have what I presume are round cooling fins, so a screw-cut spiral thread is not quite right, though about as close as I can get. I shall be modifying some of the other parts and there are two square 'cages' which I might be able to reproduce using something from the scrap etches that you gave me! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 the underframe looks good colin. When painted and suitably weathered it'll be a good representation I reckon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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