Invermire (was More first ventures in O Gauge)

[tim@dy]

Mike

What colour wood dye are you using,the picture is to blurred to read the label on the can?

 

Tim

[mike knowles]

Mike

What colour wood dye are you using,the picture is to blurred to read the label on the can?

 

Tim

 

I think it's Jacobean Dark Oak (left the tin at the club so can't check). Sorry about the blurred picture - I'd only had a coffee!

[m mcdermott]

I think it's Jacobean Dark Oak (left the tin at the club so can't check). Sorry about the blurred picture - I'd only had a coffee!

coffee !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it was pinochio,s nose that got bigger nowt else

[hayfield]

I think it's Jacobean Dark Oak (left the tin at the club so can't check). Sorry about the blurred picture - I'd only had a coffee!

 

That is the colour I use, only as I had a can of stain in the garage and it looked good on a test piece. Since taken it to the club and they have brought some as well.

[DavidLong]

Part of the problem arises from the perception that Templot is a layout planning program when its primary purpose is the design and printing of construction templates.

 

Too modest, Martin. If I was selling the idea of Templot I would first emphasise the ability to plan the layout 'in the round' with the advantage that the design will flow in the way that it is designed. No more of those peculiar straight turnouts in the middle of a curve because with Templot the turnout will be part of the curve. If you prefer to build turnouts on the workbench rather than in situ then you can do it with the knowledge that they will fit back exactly where they came out of the plan. If you don't like the plan on its first iteration then go back and rework it and you can keep reworking it until it is the version that you are satisfied with. Trouble is that it can become quite addictive and you can spend more time designing than building No more of those individual templates that you hope will go back in the way that they were intended or cutting bits out to make the turnouts curve and as for lining paper and pencils. . .

I wouldn't be without it.

 

David

Edited March 31, 2012 by DavidLong

[martin_wynne]

Too modest, Martin.

 

Hi David,

 

Yes I know. But unless new users first try creating and printing out some templates, and building track on them, they can perpetrate some terrible howlers in the track plan. I've seen it too many times -- hours and hours spent creating a track plan straight off. Then finding too late no adequate 6ft way between the tracks, switch blades opening behind check rails, impossibly tight radii. Time wasted because it all has to be done again to create a workable plan.

 

So yes, experienced track builders can start off track planning and know what they are doing. But those who have just downloaded Templot as a first move to handbuilt track should leave designing the dream layout until they know what all the template adjustments are for and have tried printing and building on some of them.

 

Thanks for the kind words.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

Too modest, Martin. If I was selling the idea of Templot I would first emphasise the ability to plan the layout 'in the round' with the advantage that the design will flow in the way that it is designed. No more of those peculiar straight turnouts in the middle of a curve because with Templot the turnout will be part of the curve. If you prefer to build turnouts on the workbench rather than in situ then you can do it with the knowledge that they will fit back exactly where they came out of the plan. If you don't like the plan on its first iteration then go back and rework it and you can keep reworking it until it is the version that you are satisfied with. Trouble is that it can become quite addictive and you can spend more time designing than building No more of those individual templates that you hope will go back in the way that they were intended or cutting bits out to make the turnouts curve and as for lining paper and pencils. . .

I wouldn't be without it.

 

David

 

I have been asked if an idea can fit into a converted garage, using generous radii. At the moment its just putting together the main running lines. The plan has had a major rethink which may have saved many hours building boards, track etc on a plan which would not have fulfiled the design criteria.

 

Yes its brillant at producing detailed plans of pointwork and yes you need to know the basics of adding turnouts and track together before you can create something larger. But it is also a super layout planning tool.

 

Its not often can you find a product that is so good at doing many things.

[mike knowles]

In between bouts of gardening a start has been made on making sleepers for some of the turnouts, in particular the three way tandem turnout at the entrance to the station, along with a “normal†two way turnout. As with the plain track sleepers shown earlier these were also cut from the same sheet of 1/16^th inch plywood. The following three photos show them laid out on the track templates and numbered accordingly (note they are only laid loose on the template at this stage and are not stuck down, so please don’t write in to say I’ve been sloppy with their positioning!). In the third photo the sleepers numbered 13 and upwards have been sanded to correct size, those numbered 12 and below are just “as cutâ€. Hopefully you can see the difference but also appreciate that not a lot of trimming is needed. I use my vernier calipers to set the marks for cutting, as these are imperial, I set them at 20 thou over the required size.

 

 

 

 

 

Temptation then got the better of me, well I must admit I really enjoy track building, so gardening was abandoned for a while to start making the crossing vees. The next sequence of photos show the rails being filed to suit, being assembled in a home made jig made from scraps of wood and ultimately the finished article after a spot of cleaning up and finally laid in place on the sleepers. The two vees at the end will be trimmed to length when the turnout is assembled on the layout.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The book that originally got me going with track building was Iain Rice’s “An approach to Building Finescale Track in 4mmâ€. Although first published in 1991 and really centred around ply and rivet construction it still provides much useful information for both modelling techniques and prototype details, well worth buying even now.

 

 

Finally I keep mentioning the size of everything compared to 4mm, well I’m finding that the even things like files as shown on the left below, which have been quite adequate for 4mm modelling are somewhat inadequate now, so time to bring out the big boys toys! The thing on the right is a lollipop stick covered with emery paper which I find very useful for final finishing.

 

[m mcdermott]

looking good mike can i put my name down for a 3 way for my new shunting plank prity plees

[hayfield]

 

Finally I keep mentioning the size of everything compared to 4mm, well I’m finding that the even things like files as shown on the left below, which have been quite adequate for 4mm modelling are somewhat inadequate now, so time to bring out the big boys toys! The thing on the right is a lollipop stick covered with emery paper which I find very useful for final finishing.

 

 

I use big files for 4mm turnouts, saves time

[rumo]

looks good mike soon need the mars bars and batter

[mike knowles]

looking good mike can i put my name down for a 3 way for my new shunting plank prity plees

 

No problem but lets see if this one works first!

[m mcdermott]

No problem but lets see if this one works first!

i have every faith in you oh merlin thanks mali

[mike knowles]

Following on from construction of the crossing vees, time has now come to convert them into common crossings by adding the wing rails.

So taking a piece of rail slightly longer than required the knuckle bend was formed roughly in the middle by clamping the rail in a vice (soft jaws) , holding the side of a large flat file against the free end and giving it a firm push. I was concerned that the top flange may buckle as a result of this but happily it didn’t. Having assembled the crossing vee in the jig and hopefully got the angle somewhere near correct, the photo below shows how the angle of the wing rail was checked using the vee and a straight edge, it’s worth taking a bit of time to get this right.

 

 

One end can then be trimmed to length and the lead in flare formed, the other end which abuts the closure rail will be trimmed later when the complete turnout is assembled. The other wing rail is made similarly but opposite handed.

A piece of brass strip is then soldered to the underside of the crossing vee, see below.

 

 

Right, time to get out the track and crossing slip gauges from Debs.

 

 

The photo below shows the use of a straight edge and a slip gauge to locate the first wing rail which is then soldered to the brass strip.

 

 

Turning it right side up results in this;

 

 

A combination of the track and slip gauges is then used to locate the other wing rail while it too is attached to the brass strip (this time assembly is done right way up).

 

 

Another piece of brass strip is then soldered under the wing rails.

 

 

 

Resulting in this;

 

 

I then had a change of plan! The two brass strips shown above where positioned to lie between the sleepers, I then decided to position the under the sleepers so further strips were added and the originals removed. Also a third strip was added directly under the crossing vee nose to ensure this remained accurately located relative to the wing rails. A bit of cleaning up resulted in this;

 

 

A final check was made by running one of the slip gauges through the crossing. Starting at the free end of the wing rail and keeping the gauge tight up against it you should be able to slide it along and it should just clear the crossing vee nose and continue on through the gap between the vee and the wing rail with a snug but free sliding fit. See below.

 

 

 

Next job was to make up the switch rails and closure rails which I make as one piece and just add a cosmetic joint. Again cut a piece of rail slightly over length, mark the length of straight planing required (shown on the C&L templates), lay it on its side and clamp it to the work bench. Then using a large flat file, file a taper across the full width until you just start to break through the web. It’s best to make the taper slightly too long, if it’s too short the blade won’t sit flush with stock rail - this is the side of the switch rail which site against the stock rail. Turn the rail over and file just the top flange on the other side so that you end up with a nice sharp edge. The photos below hopefully show the results.

 

 

 

Finally the photos below show the common crossing and switch rails laid out on the templates as bit of gratuitous self congratulation!

 

 

[the penguin of doom]

Thats looking very good to me Mike.

 

I'll run me micrometer over them tonight just to check though.....

 

;-)

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[martin_wynne]

the knuckle bend was formed roughly in the middle by clamping the rail in a vice (soft jaws) , holding the side of a large flat file against the free end and giving it a firm push.

 

Hi Mike,

 

May I suggest this alternative method of making bends in a rail? It ensures that the bend is symmetrical, which is not easy if one side is clamped in a vice or pliers while the free end is bent.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[mike knowles]

Hi Mike,

 

May I suggest this alternative method of making bends in a rail? It ensures that the bend is symmetrical, which is not easy if one side is clamped in a vice or pliers while the free end is bent.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

Cheers Martin, I'll give it a try. Should the tip of the screwdriver be narrow enough so that it just makes contact with the web of the rail (between the flanges), or should it be wider to extend over the flanges and so bear on the edges of these. I'm concerned the latter may cause the flanges some damage.

[RedgateModels]

As Martin says, works a treat, screwdriver blade over the whole rail, sharp tap and nice clean set. I only picked up on this the week before the Mansfield Show when I did a trackbuilding demo producing my first double slip over the two days. Glad I did

 

Martin might be horrified, but for the wing rails I cut the rail foot at the point of bend, allowing a nice sharp bend - not my own technique, but one borrowed from the Waverley point kit I cut my teeth on.

Edited April 18, 2012 by RedgateModels

[mike knowles]

Almost 2 months since I last posted on here, but no, we haven't given up!

 

Progress has been interrupted by getting our other layout prepped for the recent Cleethorpes Show, holidays etc and as I said earlier, being a club layout it only gets worked on on club nights, 3 hours once a week. Anyway enough of the excuses, what progress have we made?

 

Well I mentioned previously that I was going to give Templot a go. Now let me say firstly that I don’t like computers, I have to use one all day at work and the prospect of spending my precious modelling time tapping away at one in the evening did not appeal at all!. However in the name of science, progress or whatever I’ve given it a go and have to admit the programme is extremely clever and full marks to Martin (Wynne) for developing it, but because it can do everything it does take to time to “learn†it. A bit like learning what all the functions on your TV recorder/Digital camera can do – do we ever do that? Basically I initially looked at the tutorials, read the instructions and studied posts on the forum then I spent about 6 sessions of 1-2 hours duration just playing with the programme and finding out how to use it without actually trying to design a layout. Once I was reasonably confident I then started on the template for our layout and about a further 6 hours work produced an initial draft template which I was able to print out. This was laid out on the baseboards and enabled me to see what modifications were needed, mainly the adjacent track centre needed increasing and a couple of the turnouts moving along a bit. To check this I actually cut the template up and moved it about until everything fitted, a bit old fashioned and definitely not high tech, but then neither am I! The pictures below show the results. The observant of you will notice that I have cheated a bit and used the C&L template for the tandem three way turnout as I didn’t feel confident of replicating this on Templot. In some ways I feel a bit embarrassed showing this but would reiterate any shortcomings are purely mine, not Templot’s and apologies to Martin Wynne for my ham fisted attempts with his programme. I have now revised the layout on Templot and will print out a revised template ready for next weeks meeting which hopefully will fit better.

 

 

 

Moving on. Construction of the three way turnout has commenced, using the C&L template, so far the sleepers have been glued down and the first common crossing chaired up and fitted with its dropper wire ready to be glued down next week. See photos below.

 

 

 

 

Finally my son Robert has been busy building some Parkside Dundas Grampus wagons with the results as seen below.

 

 

 

 

 

Hopefully the next update will not take so long!

[3 link]

Hi Mike,

 

Nice to see it all coming together with the help of Templot, try as I might I just could not get to grips with Templot I know and understand how helpful the program is, but it's beyond me. So a big thank you to Jim a good friend of mine who has been very patient with my never ending requests and hopefully the plan will soon be in print.

 

Have to ask, can you tell me what rust coloured paint your son used on the grampus wagons it looks spot on.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[mike knowles]

Hi Mike,

 

Have to ask, can you tell me what rust coloured paint your son used on the grampus wagons it looks spot on.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

 

 

Apologies for the delay in replying.

 

Basically after a large dose of Martin Welch's book "The Art of Weathering", the wagons were first given coat of Humbrol Matt Black acrylic (from an aerosol). The transfers were then applied and sealed with some matt varnish.

Weathering then consisted of washes of Railmatch acrylic frame dirt and Tamiya acrylic flat brown which were applied liberally then removed using cotton buds, leaving the paint in the corners etc. Finally the whole thing was toned down with a light application of dark brown from the Carrs shades of mud weathering powders pack. Hope this helps

[3 link]

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for the info, it will certainly come in useful as I still have a back load of rolling stock that I built over the winter months waitting for the weathering treatment. Hopefully have the air brush fired up over the weekend.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[mike knowles]

Following on from my initial attempt with Templot I went back to the computer and did a few tweaks which resulted in a much better print out. The photos below show the majority of this stuck down (with cork underlay beneath) and the sleeper timbers installed on the three way turnout.

 

 

 

 

I must say that despite my inadequacies with computers I have to give Templot a big thumbs up. I've since used it to produce the template for a P4 layout I'm (trying) to build at home. Admittedly much smaller and simpler but it took me about an hour to draw, then I was able to print it out on two sheets of AO paper and stick the whole thing down in one operation in about ten minutes. Fantastic!

 

Follwing on we have been busy laying sleepers and (tara!) the first two pieces of rail have been installed (two common crossings on the three way turnout). The photos below show the current state of play. A long way to go, but hopefully we shoud have something running over a short stretch of track in the not too distant future!

 

 

 

 

 

Finally I mentioned previously we were looking to upgrade some Lima Class 33's to 26/27's. Well we have now obtained some bits to produce a running chassis from PRMRP and the first bodywork conversion will be started soon by fellow club mate and well known butcher of rtr diesel loco bodies "The Penguin of Doom". Discussions last week left us faced with the prospect of cutting the Lima body into about 12 pieces in order to overcome the inaccuracies in length, width and height. Sean will record progress on his "Ocasional Diesel Detailing Thread" in due course, i will show progress on the chassis on here.

 

More to follow soon hopefully.

[mike knowles]

At last an update!

 

The photos below show the current state of the track building, coming along slowly but surely but remember it only gets worked on one night per week.

 

 

 

 

 

The next photos show an initial build of one of the PRMRP bogies for the Class 26/27 build. Pleased to say it runs fine through the pointwork (when pushed by hand) but I'm thinking that the addition of some basic three point compensation would be easy to do and would help with adhesion/pulling power and pickup so I'll give it a go and report later.

 

 

 

At the moment progress is temporarily halted whilst we get our other layout, Battersby North End, prepped for Warley but once this is out of the way I aim to make a start on the chassis for the Class 26/27 so we can get something running under its own power to fully test the trackwork. Again I'll update on progress, for progress on the bodywork see the Penguin of Doom's Occasional Diesel Detailng thread.

 

We've also been busy aquiring kits for rolling stock, so far we've got:

3nr Easy Build coaches

2nr Slaters vanwides

1nr MMP dogfish

2nr EMKDE catfish

1nr PRMRP VDa van

2nr Lima (I think) mk2 coaches (to be converted into one "scale" coach

 

These are in addition to te three Parkside Grampus wagons already built (see earlier post)

 

So, plenty to do, but there's no rush.

 

Finally for now are pictures of some cottages I took on a recent holiday. They are on the A6105 road between Duns and Eyemouth (at I think Foulden) and I think perfectly capture the traditional architecture of the area. Plans are to (eventually) model them in low relief and put them along the back of the layout.

 

 

 

 

 

More soon (hopefully)

[David Siddall]

The words 'mightily impressive' come to mind in respect of that trackwork!

 

David

 

Also really liking those Grampus wagons - might just have to be my next wagon kit :-)