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2012 / 13/14.....Dukedog?


M.I.B
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This follows on from a discussion on the Hornby subforum of this site.

Any news on the Dukedog?

Release Date?

Exact Liveries - shirtbutton (yuk) or early or Late GW as well as BR?

Running number/s?


Thanks

Edited by M.I.B
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Extreme patience and good humour is required in the expectations for promised RTR items to be dully delivered from far eastern shores.

 

In the fullness of time the GWR Dukedog and SECR Class C, the SR 25 ton Brake Van and other goodies will arrive and be dispatched to those with advance orders.

 

Anxious anticipation will only make the wait seem longer (as we have been told.)

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That's no real help ( thanks anyway)

 

It just confirms there's a black one and a dirty one and a green one.

 

Sorry, but what would you expect? After all, we on here have no "insider" knowledge (or at least noone has owned up to it yet) at either Bachmann or Hornby. Bachmann does at least provide rough estimates on delivery of new products on its website and if no month(s) are shown then the wait is likely to be longer than the latest dates quoted for other models.

 

You could also try contacting Bachmann (or Hornby) directly.

 

One thing I can assure you - once there is some real news out there, it will be posted by someone here.

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...Exact Liveries - shirtbutton (yuk) or early or Late GW as well as BR?

Running number/s?

...

...

That's no real help ( thanks anyway)

 

It just confirms there's a black one and a dirty one and a green one.

Both the Bachmann and eHattons sites give the numbers (9022, 9017 and 3203) and say that both black ones are early emblem. They say "GWR green" which might imply GWR on the tender rather than shirtbutton but, given that 3203 was renumbered as 9003 in July 1946, it is unlikely to have spent much time as 3203 with GWR on the tender.

 

As to the release date, Ken's probably right with "In the fullness of time". What more help could you possibly want?

 

Nick

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As what has already been said Patience is needed, believe there a bit behind schedule, They did give a provisional date of December 2011, but obviously gone, I'm sure they will give another date when they are ready, it just takes time but I'm sure the dukedog, c-class and others will be well worth the wait.

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The Dukedog is currently at the tooling stage prior to the first sight of any EP samples which would indicate to me that the model is likely to be available around the tail end of 2012 just after the 18 month guideline given at the announcement stage.

 

Both BR issues are in early crest.

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Sorry, but what would you expect?

 

 

As stated elsewhere on this post, an original "date" has passed. I have asked a very similar question about a forthcoming product on the Hornby page and have the required answers, without sarcasm, shirtiness or presumption. That's what I expected I think.

 

As for Buffalo's post - agreed that a 1946 renumber would only give it max 3 years in a post shirt button livery, but there was a green livery around for 30 years before shirt button as well. Hence my question. Fair enough?

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...As for Buffalo's post - agreed that a 1946 renumber would only give it max 3 years in a post shirt button livery, but there was a green livery around for 30 years before shirt button as well. Hence my question. Fair enough?

Well, there were green liveries around for a good deal longer than that but, as these engines were not built until 1936-9, they would never have carried them.

 

Nick

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Well, there were green liveries around for a good deal longer than that but, as these engines were not built until 1936-9, they would never have carried them.

Nick

Exactly so but 3265 'Tre Pol And Pen' would have been an exception as it appeared in January 1930 although it never carried a number (or name) in the proper 'Dukedog' series - but because of its similarity it might be what was in mind for earlier livery? The first 'proper' 'Earl' Class loco, 3201, duly appeared - as Nick says, in the roundel era and it was photographed newly ex-works at Swindon in that livery.

 

As for the locos appearing in 2011 I would honestly have thought that to be more of a hope than an ambition in view of the size of Bachmann's 2011-12 programme, and I've not been aware of (but could easily have missed of course) a formal announcement of December 2011 as the intended release date: do Bachmann actually give such firm advance quotes for release dates? Anyway it will be here when it arrives and another 10 months or so is hardly going to be a problem when some people have been waiting years for the release of one of these.

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Exactly so but 3265 'Tre Pol And Pen' would have been an exception as it appeared in January 1930...

Yes, This engine would have carried the GREAT WESTERN livery until the mid-1930s and was almost indistinguishable from the proper Dukedogs. AFAIK the only visible difference was that it had 3'2" bogie wheels rather than the 3'8" wheels used on the Dukedogs. I'm guessing that because the preserved 9017 has no topfeed then all three of the Bachmann models will be similar and this would also (I think) suit 3265 in its early years*. Topfeeds (two sizes) would also be an issue for anyone wanting to renumber one of these, though at least adding this detail may be easier than removing it.

 

Nick

 

* by "early years", I meant early years after conversion to the proto-Dukedog form.

Edited by buffalo
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Any news on the Dukedog?

Exact Liveries - shirtbutton (yuk) or early or Late GW as well as BR?

Running number/s?

According to Bachmann Branch-Lines website, the running number is 3203.

 

If I may direct you to that wonderful online resource, "The Great Western Archive" you will see the following:

1936 - built as 3203 Earl Cawdor

1937 - name removed

1946 - renumbered 9003

 

Your livery question is understandable, but managable. With the number 3203, I assume the following plausible alternatives:

- named with shirtbutton

- unnamed with shirtbutton**

- unnamed in Hawksworth livery - improbable as 3203.

 

** The most likely candidate. Aren't Bachmann's Collett coaches being produced with shirtbutton liveries right now?

 

I had the same issue with Hornby over their initial announcement of Tintagel Castle. Like Bachmann Branch Line's online description here:

3200 (Earl) Class 3203 4-4-0 GWR Green (DCC On Board)

Hornby declared that Tintagel Castle would be "GWR Green" and unhelpfully included a black and white photograph of Earl Cairns (I think) in BR livery in their catalogue (on-line and in print). Was it going to be shirtbutton or Hawksworth "G crest W" or the Collett livery that I wanted? Who knew? I asked Hornby on their customer care email but they declined to answer me. At long last, in it's second appearance in a catalogue, there was a representative illustration.

 

While I haven't personally asked Bachmann Branch-Line for more details, essentially the same thing is happening with the Earl. The 2012/13 Bachmann Branch-Line catalogue might not be much more than a month or so away and hopefully we will find the definitive answers you seek there.

 

Either I saw it stated, or I assumed (based on when the Earl's were outshopped) that this would be a shirtbutton version. I did see somewhere that the DCC decoder would be one that senses whether the applied voltage is DC or DCC and behaves accordingly. It would be nice to have that confirmed too.

Edited by Ozexpatriate
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1936 - built as 3203 Earl Cawdor

1937 - name removed

1946 - renumbered 9003

Does anyone kwow if Earl Cawdor was one of those grumpy peers who didn't like their titles applied to the brand new Victorian Frankentiques lovingly made or perhaps remade, (I presume) in Swindon? It's too bad there was no such thing as 'steam punk' in 1936.

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1936 is covered by what is termed as "diesel punk"

 

Does that mean that diesel punks all look the same, are known by numbers, and occaisionally get named for short periods of time, which can often change...........

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Sorry, but what would you expect?

 

 

As stated elsewhere on this post, an original "date" has passed. I have asked a very similar question about a forthcoming product on the Hornby page and have the required answers, without sarcasm, shirtiness or presumption. That's what I expected I think.

 

But therein lies the difference...

 

Hornby doesn't, but Bachmann provides regular updates on progress with the development of its models, such as liveries and loco numbers, pre-production images and estimated delivery dates, on its website. So the latest position, unless you have insider information, is freely available. Also, Bachmann's current catalogue is 2011/12 and nowhere has Bachmann said that the Dukedog should have appeared by now - delivery sometime in 2012 is not unreasonable and certainly "no original date" has passed.

 

Had you said that you had consulted these sources and were wondering if anyone had heard anything more, then you would have got a different response from me (or none in fact as I could not help).

Edited by brushman47544
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Does anyone kwow if Earl Cawdor was one of those grumpy peers who didn't like their titles applied to the brand new Victorian Frankentiques lovingly made or perhaps remade, (I presume) in Swindon?...

I don't know whether any actually objected or if the GWR board just thought they might. The name Earl Cawdor first appeared on a 3292 or Badminton class engine, 3297 later 4105, built in 1898. It was named after the third Earl Cawdor who was Chairman of the GWR from 1895 to 1905 and died in 1911. This engine was rebuilt with a bizarre (for Swindon) North Eastern appearance in 1903. Maybe the fifth earl was not so keen on railways?

 

Yes, they were (re)made at Swindon.

 

Nick

Edited by buffalo
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Yes, This engine would have carried the GREAT WESTERN livery until the mid-1930s and was almost indistinguishable from the proper Dukedogs. AFAIK the only visible difference was that it had 3'2" bogie wheels rather than the 3'8" wheels used on the Dukedogs. I'm guessing that because the preserved 9017 has no topfeed then all three of the Bachmann models will be similar and this would also (I think) suit 3265 in its early years*. Topfeeds (two sizes) would also be an issue for anyone wanting to renumber one of these, though at least adding this detail may be easier than removing it.

 

Nick

 

* by "early years", I meant early years after conversion to the proto-Dukedog form.

 

Hi.

 

Don't forget that apart from two styles of top feed there are two different cab front windows, two or three different chimneys, three styles of tender and some with enlarged sandboxes. In other words if you want to be accurate get a picture of the loco you want in your time frame. Incidentally why did 3265 have smaller bogie wheels? The Bulldogs had 3'8" as did the Dukes.

 

Roger.

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Yes, indeed. Possibly a problem for Bachmann if 3203 is in shirtbutton livery as it was built with the taller tapered cast iron chimney. I don't know when it was changed. but it may have spent much of its shirtbutton existence with it. Then there is the whistle position, whistle shields, and upper front lamp iron. Many of these would have changed with the boiler changes, so all the more important to get a photo at the right date. As to those smaller bogie wheels on 3265, that's a bit of a mystery to me as it is a rather unusual size. Most GWR 4-4-0s had either 3'8" of 4'0" wheels.

 

Nick

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Yes, indeed. Possibly a problem for Bachmann if 3203 is in shirtbutton livery as it was built with the taller tapered cast iron chimney. I don't know when it was changed. but it may have spent much of its shirtbutton existence with it. Then there is the whistle position, whistle shields, and upper front lamp iron. Many of these would have changed with the boiler changes, so all the more important to get a photo at the right date. As to those smaller bogie wheels on 3265, that's a bit of a mystery to me as it is a rather unusual size. Most GWR 4-4-0s had either 3'8" of 4'0" wheels.

 

Nick

Nick

 

I have just looked at J H Russell's pictorial record of GW engines and found a copy of Diagram A.40 which shows the original rebuild of 3265 with non standard windows. This shows the bogie wheels as 3'8". Not sure what to make of this.

 

Roger.

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Exact Liveries - shirtbutton (yuk) or early or Late GW as well as BR?

 

Antics Online claim that....

 

"3203 will be painted in the 1930s GWR plain green livery, as the Dukedog class carried from new."

http://www.anticsonl..._105447337.html

 

In other words, with the roundel. But whether that is just an assumption or they have this from Bachmann, I don't know.

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I have just looked at J H Russell's pictorial record of GW engines and found a copy of Diagram A.40 which shows the original rebuild of 3265 with non standard windows. This shows the bogie wheels as 3'8". Not sure what to make of this.

 

Roger.

 

Here's a photo of 3265 circa 1936 http://www.railphoto...36-182.jpg.html

 

IIRC Bachmann said at the time the 2011/12 catalogue was released that they expected the new releases to be available in the following 18 months, which could easily take us to the autumn and who knows what unforeseen delays there might be.

 

We'll just have to wait and see and I'll just carry on running my lumpy old K's kit.

 

Martin

Edited by mcowgill
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I have just looked at J H Russell's pictorial record of GW engines and found a copy of Diagram A.40 which shows the original rebuild of 3265 with non standard windows. This shows the bogie wheels as 3'8". Not sure what to make of this.

Funny that you should mention that, Roger, I've just been looking at the same diagram and wondering whether Russell was right. I've also been looking at the photo of Tre Pol and Pen in the RCTS volume and I'm really not convinced that those wheels are any smaller than any of the Dukes or Bulldogs. Perhaps the 3'2" figure is a red herring? Maybe an error in the RCTS volume or in one of their sources. Unfortunately, I've not yet found any better pictures of this engine to compare.

 

Nick

 

Thanks for the photo, Martin. Looking at that, I'm even more convinced those are 3'8" wheels. The height of the axle box relative to the steps and other features is surely not 3" different from other Dukes, Bulldogs, etc?

Edited by buffalo
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Nick

 

I have just looked at J H Russell's pictorial record of GW engines and found a copy of Diagram A.40 which shows the original rebuild of 3265 with non standard windows. This shows the bogie wheels as 3'8". Not sure what to make of this.

 

Roger.

 

Just an idle thought or two about the 3ft 8 in or 3 ft 2 in question: 3 ft 2in is 38 inches. Might it be that someone has misread a diagram marked with 3'8" as 38" ? If only draughtsmen, whether professional or amateur had used the convention of using a place-filling zero, and written 3'8" as 3' 08", or if we had made an earlier and more complete acceptance of the metric scheme, perhaps things would have been more certain!

 

I've already got my coat, thanks - it's cold outside!

Richard

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