julesmwatson Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hi Horsetan and Kevin, I was referring more to the attitude of a modeller, rather than their access to fine scale items and availability of time. However, your points are well made, and from that perspective, I do agree. Hi Wagonman, Thanks for the kinds words. It’s interesting that the UK modelling community generally falls into the same groupings – or perhaps not, the more I think about it. I will say that the prevalence of fine scale exhibitions in the UK is something that is not seen widely (at all?) in Australian. And I’m not convinced that this is a reflection of the UK’s greater population. Anyway, enough of my ‘how long is a piece of string’ thought bubbles for now. Hi Horseton, Your tools really do underline he very fine dimensions of the Proto87 wheels. I take it that thee tool are the once you had made after drawing a blank for ‘off the shelf’ versions? I’ll PM you for the details of the machinist that you used, if I may? I pushed on with the steam chest and foot plate this evening. The lost wax casting for the reversing gear was added, along with the steam exhaust pipes that lead up from the piston and into the smoke box. Not huge amount but ‘every little bit counts’ etc... Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hi Kevin, Yes, that is indeed fantastic service from David at Steam Era Models - above and beyond. Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 All, I have some very good news to report. David Foulkes of Steam Era Models (ie manufacturer of the J Class kit) has very kindly had the artwork associated with the frame etches modified to broad gauge (18.37mm) and made available to me. Key component that are directly affected by the conversion, including the side frames, frame spacers, pony truck, and head stocks have been modified. Furthermore, an allowance has been made for the addition of CSB compensation, including holes for pivot points and clearance for the wire in the frame spacers. Finally, the coupling rods have been reworked into three separate sections (as per the prototype), to enable the CBS compensation to function correctly. I and the owner of the second kit are very thankfully for this generous gesture from David at Steam Era Models. It was as unexpected as it is appreciated. ..... Will this also be made available to other P87/Broad modellers? ......Your tools really do underline the very fine dimensions of the Proto87 wheels. I take it that the tools are the ones you had made after drawing a blank for ‘off the shelf’ versions? I’ll PM you for the details of the machinist that you used, if I may? Please do, but note that I only paid for the tools - all the hard work was done by a Dutch P87 specialist and his chosen machinist as part of a batch of such tools. That said, it has been several years but I've finally got what I need to start making German P87 steam a bit more of a reality for me. Previously the only person I knew of who had made P87 form tools was the late Joe Brook-Smith. When he died, form tools became instantly unavailable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted February 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hi Horsetan and Kevin, I was referring more to the attitude of a modeller, rather than their access to fine scale items and availability of time. However, your points are well made, and from that perspective, I do agree. Hi Wagonman, Thanks for the kinds words. It’s interesting that the UK modelling community generally falls into the same groupings – or perhaps not, the more I think about it. I will say that the prevalence of fine scale exhibitions in the UK is something that is not seen widely (at all?) in Australian. And I’m not convinced that this is a reflection of the UK’s greater population. Anyway, enough of my ‘how long is a piece of string’ thought bubbles for now. Julian You have to remember that in Australia there is a large variety of prototype track gauges in use. With 5'3", Standard gauge & 3'6" still in large scale usage amongst various states, any P87 modelling interest is split into these 3 groups, then subdivided by state. Thus. 1/ Standard gauge for NSW, interstate lines and the private big mining companies. 2/ Broad gauge for Victoria & parts South Australia. 3/ 3'6" for Queensland, parts South Australia, Western Australia, Tasmania & the old Ghan line. 4/ Victoria also had 4 2'6" gauge lines - one remaining as the Puffing Billy line. None of this makes it easy, by making it hard to share resources, especially as 3'6" is usually modelled to S Scale, rather than H0 for the rest. Kevin Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Hi Kevin, Again, all good points. But when was the last fine scale model railway exhibition (of any gauge, prototype, or scale) held in Australia? I do believe that some have been attempted, although I could be wrong. Hi Horsetan, You would have to speak with David Foulkes, but I do not believe that they will become a ‘stock item’. Please feel free to PM me if you’d like to know a little more. Hi CraigW, You asked me some time ago about what I will do to replace the lugs that have been removed from the seam chest. The simple answer is ‘nothing’. I think that the some good (ie clean) soldering with low and medium temperature solder will be fine. Well, a got a little more completed tonight on the foot plate, with some brackets and the lubricator. The lubricator on the prototype was manufactured by Nathan, who also made high pressure steam valves and, of course, steam chimes. There’s a nice little personal story attached to this. In their day, when the USA manufactured more steam locomotives than you or I care to think about, Nathan supplied many of the aforementioned components. They were headquartered out of Manhattan, New York with several hundred employed in the head office alone. With the demise of steam locomotives in the USA, Nathan fell on difficult times. Nonetheless, they moved into the railway air horn business as deisel locomotives exploded, and even today have the global market almost cornered. I know all this, as my father-in-law’s manufacturing firm purchased the Nathan Air Chime brand and designs some time ago. With the purchase also came the rights and designs to the old steam chimes. He was often approached by preservation companies around the world to make replacement steam chimes – he even made some for Puffing Billy, Australia. In the end, the costs to undertake such services became prohibitively expensive, and he donated the designs a local preservation group in Pennsylvania, USA. I'll have to point out the tiny part to my father-in-law the next time he visits...! Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Julian you might find there is a reasonable number of "finescale"modellers in Australia. It seems to be a very lonely furrow to follow! I think that Melbourne has the largest number of regular finescale devotees in the Scalefour and EM modellers which also has some hangers on in O gauge. I think it may come down to the number of interested people and the specific interest to each individual. If the "FS"group didn't exist here in Melbourne I would probably not have met such great modellers nor probably stayed in the hobby! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Hi Doug, I'm sure that there are! In fact I know of many that have their own (rather impressive) home layouts and who largely keep to themselves. They're not involved with clubs and only attend the occasional exhibitions 'posing' as anonymous member of the public. Cheers, Julian PS: I'd be very interested to visit one of your FS meetings the next time that I'm back in Melbourne, if that's at all possible, Doug? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 All, Tony Crennan of Model Etch contacted me today to give the thumbs up for etching of the broad gauge components. Let's hope that they arrive sooner, rather than later. In the mean while, some work was undertaken on the foot plate and head stock. Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I think this is a wonderful thread! We're very used to seeing 'finescale' thinking applied to British prototypes but not so much overseas ones. P87 does produce some excellent models but they are still a bit out of the ordinary - your build looks very much out of the ordinary! Great stuff! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Julian, Are you springing the buffers? I know a lot of the local VR modellers are quite happy with the cast brass buffers. I use only Alan Gibson buffers and the round based VR style certainly look like the NER buffers I have been using on my kit built LNER stock. I know others who have cut the heads off and used a lathe to dril out the bodies to spring with Alan Gibson heads and springs. I have read methods for stopping the heads rotating which I know is needed for the internal cut out! I don't have a lathe to give this method a try though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Spoke to Bill Bedford this afternoon, and due to the axle quantities involved, it is unlikely that he'll be producing any P87 wheels for German steam engines. So there goes that idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hi James, Thanks for the kind words - I'm glad that you're enjoying the build. I'm looking forward to when the new frame etches arrive (shortly) and things really start to grow legs! I've admired the UK approach to modelling for some time and wanted to apply the same approach to the Australian prototype. We'll see how it ends up! Hi Doug, I must admit that the thought had crossed my mind. I'm just not sure how the rather weak brass casting would go in a lathe (i.e. the chuck jaws may dent the item etc). Saying all this, it would be rather cool. There isn't anywhere to hide behind the head stock. However, I note that some have devised ways around this. I'll have to give this some more thought. Hi Horsetan, I did contact the proprietor at Allan Gibson and he said something similar. A pity but I guess they've running a business and all that. So when will you be starting on the German steamers...? Sorry, I couldn't resist. Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 ...So when will you be starting on the German steamers...? Not as early as I'd hoped. It'll either be Teichmann cast wheel blanks (expensive) or reprofiled RTR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hi Horsetan, Sorry to hear about that. I've been told that a lot of the European P87/HOpur can be rather expensive. Maybe you need to have a look at Nick Baines' site regarding machining wheel centres from blanks. Impressive stuff. http://ncbaines.co.uk/wheelmaking.aspx Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 All, Just a quick question; how do I contact London Road Models, other than through the PO Box details as supplied on the S4 Society web site? I'd like to purchase some items and need to sort out payment etc from Canada. Cheers, Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Just a quick question; how do I contact London Road Models, other than through the PO Box details as supplied on the S4 Society web site? I'm afraid that's it - seems rather quaint in 2012, doesn't it?! If you find LNWR Modeller he may be able to help you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 Hi James, Thanks for that. I'll drop LNRW Modeller a line. Alternatively, I can have my order sent to a mate's place that is located in the UK. Thanks again. Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Just to annoy you Julian, Steam rail was having an open weekend at New Port this weekend along with Sandown Exhibition. The exhibition was passible, the new thing was a Flat top T from Aussesion So onto the web site if you want one! It was quite well attended at over 3000 people through yesterday! I managed to get a lot done on my Q6! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm afraid that's it - seems rather quaint in 2012, doesn't it?!. True, but if you read the Introduction on the LRM website you will find an explanation. The ease of communication provided by the interweb results in lots of casual, but sometimes lengthy and protracted enquiries that don't result in a purchase. Enquires about "will the kit for a MR XX class produce a ZZ class", etc. If it did it would say so in the catalogue, but clearly some people find it easier to email an enquiry rather than read the information (something that is also quite often apparent on RMWeb). It's an electronic version of having a stand at the York show. "Is that a model of a L&Y nut crusher? I used to see those through the classroom window when I was young". This is then followed by fifteen minutes of childhood reminisces/family history before the enquirer wanders off to pester some other trader/exhibitor and waste their time. Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Hi Jol, Thanks for explaining London Road Models' approach. It sounds like they follow the 'buy now and ask questions later’ method (or is it just ‘buy now...’?). As I have already mentioned to you, the original question that I had for LRM is now redundant, as I will be visiting the Old Dart on business and can pick up the items ‘in country’. I must say that I had a little chuckle to myself about your chiding of the internet and the ease of access it can afford ‘casual time wasters’ - while using the internet to tell us about it. (In a formal, rather than casual manner, of course.) Very ‘Yes Prime Minister’ of you, Jol. Love it! Seriously, thanks for the background. Much appreciated. Just to annoy you Julian...The exhibition was passable, the new thing was a Flat top T from Auscision. So onto the web site if you want one! Mission accomplished, Doug! I was one of the sheep well organised people that pre-paid for the Austrains’ more expensive version. Nice work, Romeo... *rolls eyes* Anyway, I’ve just returned from a family trip last week to Sedona, Arizona, USA. A lovely place, with spectacular ‘Red Rock’ stacks and mesas all over the place. Think of Warner Bros. 1960’s cartoons of the Road Runner and Wile E. Coyote, and you’ve got it. Unfortunately, I was ill for the last few days of my holiday (there should be a law...) On the modelling front, Tony Crennan of Model Etch contacted me a few days ago to say that the etch for the modified frames is winging its way to me. Furthermore, my ‘wheelwright’ in Perth, Australia, informs me that he’ll be finishing off the wheels over the next week or so, between completing steam loco kits for customers. Watch this space. Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejp Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I was one of the sheep well organised people that pre-paid for the Austrains’ more expensive version. Nice work, Romeo... *rolls eyes* I like to think I was rewarded for my laziness and lack of organisation in not yet ordering from Austrains despite the threatened tiny production run. Having picked up one of the BRM Flatties at Sandown I'll probably mail-order a second despite the first series T being, to my eyes, the least attractive of the VR's diesel electrics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 Hi EJP, Just like a broken clock is right twice a day, laziness does seem to pay dividends now and again!!! I’m going to sit tight for the moment but will most likely grab a BRM flat top T very soon – they look too nice to resist! Funnily enough, the GM design of the VR flat top T was used in many places around the world, as you may know. Even my Canadian counterparts recognised it as a ‘local version’ when I was showing them some VR literature! Anyway, the modeling progresses. I spent this evening installing the extremely fine plumbing on the foot plate. I’ve got to shoot up stairs to spend some time with my lovely wife, so will take some picture and post them tomorrow night. Finally, I was visiting a local jeweller’s supplier today and, on a whim, purchased some liquid flux that is design for soldering gold and silver (ie high temperature silver soldering with a torch). Do people know if such flux (boric acid of no stated % content) would be okay to use with my soldering irons, or is it likely to be very aggressive? Cheers, Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 ...... I’ve got to shoot up stairs to spend some time with my lovely wife, so will take some picture and post them tomorrow night...... I wasn't sure how this should be construed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesmwatson Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 I wasn't sure how this should be construed. Ha ha. Well I walked straight into that one... Anyway, here are some photos, as...ahem...promised. Some of the very fine plumbing etched were fun to solder! But of greater note is that a package landed on my door step yesterday. It contained the modified Steam Era Models frame etch. Tony Crennan of Model Etch , near Adelaide, South Australia has again provided some fantastic work. The etch was very well packed (sandwiched between some stiff cardboard and sheet of wood), which enabled its safe passage across the Pacific Ocean. I started by constructing the first frame. I soldered the first steam chest to the frame but a subsequent test fit and reference to some prototype photos revealed that more material will have to be shaved off the back of the white metal cast. My first job for tomorrow night. It’s nice to be back in the saddle after a short wait for the modified frame etch. Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 That's a lovely etch. How much does one set cost? The photo of the plumbing underway reminds me of the build photos that Weinert use in their catalogue to good effect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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