Camden Shed

[92220]

£4.00 on eBay for a secondhand copy of this:

 

 

A major bargain for 143 pages of WCML in the late 50's and early 60's, with the added bonus of a good portion of it being at Camden. Several photos are in Rod Steele's other book pictured earlier on this page, but it would still well worth it just for a few crucial photos I'd not seen before.

 

One is a broadside of 46244 King George VI alongside the water tower, which shows the arrangement of the bottom two flights of steps on the coaling tower: I can finish these with confidence now.

 

Iain

[92220]

A little more progress:

 

8 lengths of C section and 2 of the heavy H section brass cut for the last two frames:

 

 

Close up to show my untidy soldering. The legs of each frame are C section back to back, separated by spacers. The top beam is H section and the diagonals are all I section. The razor saw and mitre block have been well used.

 

 

And all 4 done. They need a bit more cleaning up, and then all the bolted plates adding to each join. These will add quite a lot to the look of each frame I think so I want to get them to look right. I'm thinking along the lines of making a template out of brass with holes drilled where each bolt goes, then using the template to cut them out of 0.010" plastic and the riveting tool to make the "bolts" through the holes. I think?

 

 

 

Iain

[bobster]

Very neat work there Iain - Very enjoyable following this.

 

Cheers, Bob.

[Black5]

Hi Iain,

As usual,neat work on the coal tower and water tower support framework.

I have to say, i like seeing things their state of construction be it plasticard or brass. It shows the amount of work put in before the paint hides it, especially any brass work where all the soldering is on view and you can see the effort required to reach the desired result.

Someone said to me once at an exhibition whilst looking at an O gauge Bullied Pacific beautifully made in brass, once painted you could easily think it had been made of anything but brass as all the work gets covered by the paint.

Always enjoy following your postings,

Cheers

Jim.

[Black5]

Hi Iain,

With reference to your water tower construction, i wonder if you would mind answering a couple of queries.

Was there a standard height at all for the base of the tank from the ground? Iv`e made a cardboard mock up at 25 ft scale height and it looked a bit low, so hence the question.

The other thing was the size of the brass pieces you`ve used for the support structure?

Hope you don`t mind me asking.

Best wishes,

Jim.

[92220]

Hi Jim,

 

Thanks as always for the interest and kind comments. Never any problem to ask a question; indeed I welcome it.

I need to dig out the drawings and measurements from the shed to give you an exact answer. But as memory serves me, I estimated from about 50 photos that the height of the framing (the bit I've built here) was around 29'. That would put the base of the tank at about 31'. I've no idea whether that was any sort of standard though. The LMS Engine Sheds no.1 book would be the first place to look I guess, but I don't remember any specifics about standard water tanks.

 

The tank itself was from Alan Gibson's Braithwaite panels etch, and the brass section I will need to measure as the packets were binned a long time ago. I'll get back to you when I get a moment to do the measurements.

 

Best wishes,

 

Iain

[Black5]

Hi Iain,

Thanks for your reply. I didn`t think there would be a standard height as all yards would be different but i just wondered. I actually upped the length of the legs on my cardboard mock up to give a height of 32 ft which certainly looks much better.

 Braithwaite Panels arrived this morning ( amazingly quick service from them ) so tank building will start soon,albeit slightly narrower due to space.

Thanks for your help

 All the best,

Jim.

[92220]

Hi Jim,

 

Glad it looks a lot better. Ive just been able to get into the shed to do a couple of things, and I checked: my tank base will be 31'6" above ground. If I build it correctly.

 

A bit more done outside.

 

I've built a card and ply jig to hold all four frames for the water tower absolutely square and in alignment to be soldered together

 

2 sides, built from 2 layers of mounting card, leaving grooves for an exact fit for each frame. A row of bars of the same card to locate the horizontal girders that will hold the whole lot together (along with 32 diagonals of 0.33 nickel silver wire, and the 3 beams on the top)

 

 

 

Whole jig assembled and then with one of the horizontal girders temporarily placed (it's not cut to length yet).

 

 

 

 

Finally, a quick detailed one of one of the window frames on the coaling plant. I realised I hadn't added this photo before - the frames were completed a while ago.

 

 

Iain

[farren]

Very nice work Iain. I'm lucky enough to be able to just buy the Bachmann one which seems close enough for Leicester. Which means I can just set back and watch a master class in in modelling. Keep up the great work.

[Black5]

I agree with farren Iain.

I`m sure a lot of us watch what you`re up to with great interest and envy at your modelling ability and eye for detail.

Way back at the start, i think you said this was your first serious attempt at a layout, some first attempt!

Thanks for the pictures and the info.

Cheers,

Jim.

[southern42]

I'm enjoying this Iain.  You certainly know how to set the standard for the rest of us.

Thanks for the photos, they're very informative.

[cornish trains jez]

Hi Jim,

 

Glad it looks a lot better. Ive just been able to get into the shed to do a couple of things, and I checked: my tank base will be 31'6" above ground. If I build it correctly.

 

A bit more done outside.

 

I've built a card and ply jig to hold all four frames for the water tower absolutely square and in alignment to be soldered together

 

2 sides, built from 2 layers of mounting card, leaving grooves for an exact fit for each frame. A row of bars of the same card to locate the horizontal girders that will hold the whole lot together (along with 32 diagonals of 0.33 nickel silver wire, and the 3 beams on the top)

 

image.jpeg

 

image.jpeg

 

Whole jig assembled and then with one of the horizontal girders temporarily placed (it's not cut to length yet).

 

image.jpeg

 

image.jpeg

 

image.jpeg

 

Finally, a quick detailed one of one of the window frames on the coaling plant. I realised I hadn't added this photo before - the frames were completed a while ago.

 

image.jpeg

 

Iain

 

Superb work mate! And very neat too!

Best regards,

Jeremy

[92220]

Jeremy, Polly, Jim, Farren,

 

Thanks very much for your kind words: I'm flattered!

 

After getting a sneaky hour in today, I am about 40% of the way through soldering the water tower frames together:

 

 

 

It is square and slides out of the tight confines of the jig ok. I couldn't do the other 0.33mm wire diagonals without removing it because of the ledge I set up for the horizontal beam. Just briefly placed on the layout in position.

 

Hopefully will finish these tomorrow and then I have rivetted plates, water pipes, handrails, ladder and lights to add, before painting and weathering. I'm not the fastest at scratchbuilding or at least semi-scratchbuilding (would a real scratchbuilder have hammered out each individual Braithwaite panel from brass sheet using nothing but a tiny hammer and anvil, and a hair shirt?). But it's fun, and hugely satisfying to try to build something that is a half decent representation of the real thing.

 

I am not 100% certain of the exact position or dimensions of the main water pipe yet, so that may be one of the final bits.

 

Thanks all for the interest as always.

 

Iain

[jrg1]

Jeremy, Polly, Jim, Farren,

 

Thanks very much for your kind words: I'm flattered!

 

After getting a sneaky hour in today, I am about 40% of the way through soldering the water tower frames together:

 

image.jpeg

 

image.jpeg

 

It is square and slides out of the tight confines of the jig ok. I couldn't do the other 0.33mm wire diagonals without removing it because of the ledge I set up for the horizontal beam. Just briefly placed on the layout in position.

 

Hopefully will finish these tomorrow and then I have rivetted plates, water pipes, handrails, ladder and lights to add, before painting and weathering. I'm not the fastest at scratchbuilding or at least semi-scratchbuilding (would a real scratchbuilder have hammered out each individual Braithwaite panel from brass sheet using nothing but a tiny hammer and anvil, and a hair shirt?). But it's fun, and hugely satisfying to try to build something that is a half decent representation of the real thing.

 

I am not 100% certain of the exact position or dimensions of the main water pipe yet, so that may be one of the final bits.

 

Thanks all for the interest as always.

 

Iain

Extraordinary

[Jock67B]

Iain,

Sorry to say I've been absent on the sick list for a while and so I've just been scanning through - I love the method you used with the jig, very professional indeed!

Kind regards,

Jock.

[1BCamden]

Hi Iain, the shed tank structure is fantastic, sad to have to paint it. If I can offer some thoughts into service piping, there should be no less than four (4) all but one going to the grade. All mounted inboard into the main tank floor, this includes the overflow (largest diameter) main outlet (next largest) main inlet (at least 50% smaller then the main outlet) down to a 50mm utility and amenities outlet, which was routed along the the coaling plant side of the rough store, with 25mm take offs for domestic supplies and coal spray equipment.

Regarding locations, I've included a couple of photos which indicate possible locations. Also the tank may have been furnished with two overflows, which could explain the two (one each side) rectangular section both going to the ground and drain. The rest all appear to be on the coaling plant side.

Also check out - http://www.braithwaite.co.uk/pdf/Steel_tank_brochure.pdf(still in business)

 

Edited February 15, 2016 by 1BCamden

[92220]

Thanks so much Stanley, very useful and helpful as always. I've tried to triangulate from a combination of photos already, and I'm not quite certain. It's cheeky of me to ask, but is there any chance that you might be able to sketch a plan view of which pipe you think goes where in plan view? I think the largest pipe is towards the eastern corner?

 

Jock,

Sorry to hear that you've been absent sick, but I hope that things improve for you. Thanks for the support as always.

 

Iain

[92220]

Hi Stanley, and indeed anyone,

 

One other question I have is about the top of the tank. I don't know whether there is a picture in existence of it, but my thinking is as follows:

The handrails seem to be either side of a roughly 4ft walkway around the edge of the tank, so I originally built the tank with a 16mm strip around the edge. Does everyone think I'm right to do that and to leave the rest open? Some tanks I know had a complete cover, and I believe that some were open. Could this one have had a walkway that was strong enough for maintenance personnel and a flimsier cover over the middle? Or shall I proceed with it as it is?

Any views welcome.

Thanks,

 

Iain

[1BCamden]

Hi Iain,

great work on the tank, spotted it in the background of one of your earlier photos.

Water tank nozzle orientation, as stated and based on some standard water tank designs I have been involved with, the (possible) arrangement is as per the attached drawing, supported by additional mark ups and photographs.

best regards

Stanley

 

1B WT nozzle GA-000.pdf

 

 

Edited February 16, 2016 by 1BCamden

[92220]

That's world class, Stanley! Thanks very much indeed. I'll give that a go.

Best wishes,

Iain

[1BCamden]

Hi Iain,

Regarding the tank roof, yep, it had one, refer 1948 photo, if it didn't or was only partially covered the photo would show it as 'solid black'and it doesn't also there appears to be stuff on it ?

Regarding the platform, it would have not be directly on the tank but slightly raised (framed) off the roof (the roof wouldn't have been designed to support weight) it would have been timbered landing, and only about 700mm wide maximum, with steel railings as per photo.

Check out the rain jacket !!

best regards

Stanley

 

Edited February 16, 2016 by 1BCamden

[1BCamden]

Hi Iain,

The rain jacket photo was taken on the shed platform (yard lighting access) sorry about that, I'll have a hunt round tomorrow, I'm off to bed !!

Sorry about the roof, but the tank would have been procured from Braithwaites as a standard item, and roofing for these types of applications were pretty standard. Only later (due to corrosion) were they removed or stripped back.

best regards

Stanley

[1BCamden]

hi Iain,

Thought this may be of interest

Best regards

Stanley

 

Edited February 17, 2016 by 1BCamden

[92220]

Hi Stanley,

 

Thanks very much indeed - incredibly useful. Isn't the raincoat man on the shed roof walkway not the tank? Still, it's an angle and a shot I've never seen before.

 

Having a roof or cover on the tank makes construction easier for sure. I dont have to model the water for a start!

 

The YouTube clip above shows clearly an arch profile to the tank cover. I can't quite see any indication of that on any of the photos of the 1B tank. Could it have been a flat cover of thin steel plate, or would that have created issues with rain water pooling? Maybe as long as it had a slope of 2-3 degrees it would have been enough to avoid that? I'd spotted that the walkway was raised slightly from the top of the tank itself, so this makes it a lot clearer. It should be easy enough to make that with various bits of plastic. I can make the handrails by the same method that I used for the turntable handrails.

 

Back to the pipes:

Was the insulation cover on the two largest pipes (east side main outlet and west side main inlet) a box section? It looks that way in certain pictures. The Gibson etch for the Braithwaite panels includes several flanges so I should be able to do those ok.

 

Thanks again,

 

Best wishes,

 

Iain

Edited February 17, 2016 by 92220

[92220]

A little more done on the frame, given a couple of free hours.

 

All the diagonals completed and also, I secured the tops of the four frame sections in alignment with two pieces of 0.8mm brass rod. The idea is that these will be obscured by the two outer beams when it is complete, but the extra strength will help.

 

Then the seemingly mammoth task of making the rivetted plates for each join.

 

 

There are 60 in total, in 6 different shapes, all cut out of 0.010" plastic and hand embossed with a riveting tool. I think I've done 19 so far. There are times when my sanity is not even able to be described as questionable. Mind you, Vincent Worthington said he built his version of this water tower over one Christmas break, and it had 17,000 rivets on it. It is, like everything on Camden Bank, both a work of art and a work of beautiful engineering.

 

 

 

Finally, the tank top loosely placed on to give half an indication of what it will look like. It isn't lined up accurately, but I can get the feeling of what it will be like, and I'm pleased with it so far.

 

 

I know that this mixed media construction is slightly bonkers, but it seems ok. The frame and the tank are pretty rigid and the plastic I beams joining the two allow a little flexibility when I weld them together. I can't now remember why I went this way once I abandoned the idea of building the frame in plastic section. It might have been that there was no more brass left in Alton Models.

 

Iain