Why is this so rarely modelled?

[leopardml2341]

Thanks Talisman.

 

To quote a phrase - 'Every Little Helps'

Edited December 21, 2016 by leopardml2341

[talisman56]

Set 159 was created in 7/67, the month that steam exited (9/7/67 was the final day), therefore the date of the picture must be sometime in the first week of July 1967 (light pacific 34052 was withdrawn in July 1967, one of the last to go). The train is standing in the down main platform at Eastleigh, BTW.

 

Unfortunately there were 43 'new' sets* created in July 1967, most of which had two BSKs, so the identity of the rear BSK is open to correction. Enlarging the picture, the running number of the one branded with set 159 is too indistinct so it may be either of 34281 or 34282.

 

At that time there were still definitely 61 Bulleid CKs on the books, plus another 21 that were recorded as being withdrawn during July 1967. So unless there is a definite record of the exact consist of that specific train somewhere, we're on to a loser...

 

*The sets concerned were 11-19, 51-54, 67-69, 91, 105-109, 115/116, 125/126, 130-132, 145, 150, 155-160, 170/171, 180, 185/186, 195.

 

Of course, had I been more awake when I posted, I could have narrowed the field for the Bulleid CK - as it's a 15" vent Eastleigh-built version, then there were 36 of those on the books with 11 others recorded as withdrawn in 7/67.

Edited December 21, 2016 by talisman56

[wagonbasher]

Hi AllWhile I think of the 80's as the forgotten era of railway modelling its not half as bad as thishttp://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/6920469219/in/photostreamSteam. blue and grey coaches (b4 bogies too) colour lights, FB rail and yet hardly ever (if ever) modelled. CheersJim

At the risk of over generalising I suspect modellers tend to fall into the steam or the diesel electric camp. I also think the geographical range is quite limited and often under wires.

 

Edit. I found this thread by following a link from elsewhere and responded to the original question posed by the thread. Only then did I realise the extent of the threads coverage and I have clearly got some catching up to do.

Andy

[DCB]

At the risk of repeating sentiments expressed earlier which I may have missed I believe a lot of modellers model death steam on the WR.  The Kings died and the chocolate and cream sets were broken up round the time Westerns, Hymeks and the yellow ends appeared and shiny steam locos in lined green continued to be turned out of Swindon into 1964 probably never to be cleaned, so the death was 1962-65 Green Diesel yellow ends era not 67-68 like the North West..   

Edited February 27, 2017 by DavidCBroad

[Dunsignalling]

Nice example of the occasional exceptional longevity of the early lion and wheel crest, more than ten years after its sell by date.

 

John D

Nice to see it's not just modellers that put the numbers on crooked. 

 

John

[Michael Delamar]

DH - 34004 - BINCOMBE TUNNEL by Derek Huntriss, on Flickr

[Sasquatch]

Here's an interesting picture from Facebook no less, posted there by Eddie Bobrowski. More  here

B1 61306 with the 9.55 southbound Bradford portion of the Yorkshire Pullman service. The mix of liveries on the coaching stock is fascinating and one which all but the bravest of modelers would not choose to portray on their layouts. It is also a convenient shorter train that lends it's formation to more compact layouts.

 

[stewartingram]

Is that a London RT bus with its back to the camera? (3rd from the right?)

 

Stewart

[leopardml2341]

Obviously a breakers yard of some description, because I think the right most one is an ex Manchester bus.

 

Can't tell from the pic, but given that the train looks like that Bradford portion of the Yorkshire Pullman, could it be near Bingley, where there was indeed a bus breaker's yard?

[Trev52A]

Obviously a breakers yard of some description, because I think the right most one is an ex Manchester bus.

 

Can't tell from the pic, but given that the train looks like that Bradford portion of the Yorkshire Pullman, could it be near Bingley, where there was indeed a bus breaker's yard?

 

There's a picture taken at the same spot with the same loco (B1 61306) but on a different occasion, in the 1976 book 'On and Off the Beaten Track' by Ian Krause and John Hunt, which gives the location as merely 'Bradford'.

Hope this helps.

 

Trevor

[Sasquatch]

Correct me if I'm wrong but that looks like the climb away from Bradford Exchange. 

[Sasquatch]

Here's an interesting picture from Facebook no less, posted there by Eddie Bobrowski. More  here

B1 61306 with the 9.55 southbound Bradford portion of the Yorkshire Pullman service. The mix of liveries on the coaching stock is fascinating and one which all but the bravest of modelers would not choose to portray on their layouts. It is also a convenient shorter train that lends it's formation to more compact layouts.

 

22095988_1109761529154764_684604597071844370_o.jpg

Just wanted to add that it's a pity this train wasn't tanking the Queensbury route. I could always dig out the old modelers license

[APOLLO]

To keep this thread alive - a superb new layout --

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128568-hills-of-the-north-the-spirit-of-shap/&do=findComment&comment=2940450

 

Brit15

[rodent279]

It's a wonder I learned anything at school really the amount of time I spent gazing out of the window.

I can totally empathise with this.....

[CKPR]

Black 5 with ex-works Derby Lightweight DMU (well half of it) in the consist

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/7254707876/in/photolist-4JzK6K-63EobZ-emFtUQ-dFiWbp-4Z89Kn-8MTYrB-ct7LD5-5EH2xA-rvhvb4-4MYcN5-6U5SGj-c45gUh-9mEJu4-bv9ZqP-jT8Y9d-j49jb6-obQbmL-5ECJ8K-9AGCnc-5ECJgz-aXaqwn-bnbcG9-aDgBRV-c92y3C-r7zwWg-4z1wFB-6yA1SF-aBr3B4-fcPGzd-6yDQvE-dQn1aP-poYdPJ-ct7LAS-dGqsZd-ei4aDs-aFkWAa-buZ9Ck-fdWGBB-ekRMhx-bSX966-cH6ii1-e6UuDp-buZm2B-avUpNg-bfKbg8-e5KiKK-bLCwac-oQxRZy-dYXtTW-ecCbp5

 

At last, a use for that DC Models Derby Lightweight kit I've been trying to sell !

[billy_anorak59]

Reading through this topic, a thought occurred to me - why didn't BR paint mainline coaching stock in all over blue ('a-la-VoR' - and even the roofs in that case!)?

After all, the LMR had had all over maroon (albeit mainly lined), and the SR all over green, so why not all over blue? DMUs got all over blue, as did EMUs, some suburban stock, and NPCS, but for the mainline coaches, it seems they went straight to the blue/grey with the showing of the XP64, and no other experimental liveries were tried (...or were they?).

 

Given that policy at BR of the time was to paint everything corporate blue, I find it strange that someone overseeing the image policies must have had a vestige of aesthetic appreciation and included the grey: Did even they think all blue for coaches a step too far?

 

Mind you, If they had been painted thus, things would have been very drab indeed!

Just wondering...

[Hobby]

Bl***y awful they looked as well, nearly as bad as GWR's current green stock (I prefer the colour blue to green which is the only reason for the order of preference!)

Edited September 14, 2018 by Hobby

[wombatofludham]

Reading through this topic, a thought occurred to me - why didn't BR paint mainline coaching stock in all over blue ('a-la-VoR' - and even the roofs in that case!)?

After all, the LMR had had all over maroon (albeit mainly lined), and the SR all over green, so why not all over blue? DMUs got all over blue, as did EMUs, some suburban stock, and NPCS, but for the mainline coaches, it seems they went straight to the blue/grey with the showing of the XP64, and no other experimental liveries were tried (...or were they?).

 

Given that policy at BR of the time was to paint everything corporate blue, I find it strange that someone overseeing the image policies must have had a vestige of aesthetic appreciation and included the grey: Did even they think all blue for coaches a step too far?

 

Mind you, If they had been painted thus, things would have been very drab indeed!

Just wondering...

 

BR or at least their design consultants did try several alternative ideas before settling on blue/grey, one of which was an umber/off white livery which was tried out on a wooden mock up of the XP64/Mk2 coach.  It's detailed in the excellent book British Rail Designed 1948-97 by David Lawrence.

[thenudehamster]

Reading through this topic, a thought occurred to me - why didn't BR paint mainline coaching stock in all over blue ('a-la-VoR' - and even the roofs in that case!)?

After all, the LMR had had all over maroon (albeit mainly lined), and the SR all over green, so why not all over blue? DMUs got all over blue, as did EMUs, some suburban stock, and NPCS, but for the mainline coaches, it seems they went straight to the blue/grey with the showing of the XP64, and no other experimental liveries were tried (...or were they?).

 

Given that policy at BR of the time was to paint everything corporate blue, I find it strange that someone overseeing the image policies must have had a vestige of aesthetic appreciation and included the grey: Did even they think all blue for coaches a step too far?

I suspect that this may have had something to do with distinguishing long-distance or express trains from local or commuters. On the old GER lines, suburban electrics were green, loco-hauled expresses had corporate BR colours (remember 'blood and custard' coaches?), then the later Clacton expresses had the 'jaffa-cake' orange and brown. SWT, before the change to SWR, operated a similar policy; they had basically white long-distance (for them!) expresses, blue for outer suburbans, and red for inner suburban.

 

Incidentally, those of us on the ex-GER main lines had steam withdrawn for local services in 1949, though we got Britannias for the Norwich expresses before anywhere else. However for a kid growing up in the mid fifties to early sixties, variety was all around. Green 1500v DC electrics (slammers and sliders), Britannias and B1's, occasional J15's, and more, then Type 4 1-Co-Co-1 English Electrics (TOPS 44? not too up on the reclassification), Type 2 Brush A1A-A1A (31's) North British (Class15?) freight diesels, and a couple of Railbuses at Romford - then in the sixties after the 25Kv conversion, the 'jaffa-cake' Clacton electrics. Penalty of that? No models of the electrics or the NBL diesels, and only in the last couple of years a J15.

 

Why don't i model that era? What with?

Edited November 18, 2018 by thenudehamster

[talisman56]

The 'Clacton' Electrics were originally outshopped in lined Maroon, before gaining corporate Blue/Grey in the late 60s. The London & South East sector 'Jaffa Cake' livery was only introduced in the months before they eventually settled on the 'Toothpaste' Red/White/Blue used by the rebranded Network SouthEast from June 1986.

Edited November 18, 2018 by talisman56

[stewartingram]

I suspect that this may have had something to do with distinguishing long-distance or express trains from local or commuters. On the old GER lines, suburban electrics were green, loco-hauled expresses had corporate BR colours (remember 'blood and custard' coaches?), then the later Clacton expresses had the 'jaffa-cake' orange and brown. SWT, before the change to SWR, operated a similar policy; they had basically white long-distance (for them!) expresses, blue for outer suburbans, and red for inner suburban.

 

Incidentally, those of us on the ex-GER main lines had steam withdrawn for local services in 1949, though we got Britannias for the Norwich expresses before anywhere else. However for a kid growing up in the mid fifties to early sixties, variety was all around. Green 1500v DC electrics (slammers and sliders), Britannias and B1's, occasional J15's, and more, then Type 4 1-Co-Co-1 English Electrics (TOPS 44? not too up on the reclassification), Type 2 Brush A1A-A1A (31's) North British (Class15?) freight diesels, and a couple of Railbuses at Romford - then in the sixties after the 25Kv conversion, the 'jaffa-cake' Clacton electrics. Penalty of that? No models of the electrics or the NBL diesels, and only in the last couple of years a J15.

 

Why don't i model that era? What with?

As a Cambridge line modeller I must agree on the scarcity of suitable models. I model the 1950s & 1960s (steam finished at Liverpool Street in 1961, and around 1963 further out)(and have been collecting over 50 years) and so far have only managed the following few steam locos. What are we supposed to do?

Ivatt 4 2-6-0 43xxx (Bachmann)

Ivatt 2 2-6-0 464xx (Bachmann)

B1 4-6-0 (Hornby)

B17 4-6-0 (Hornby, old & new versions)

B2 (Hornby, old version with Crownline conversion)

B12 4-6-0 (Hornby)

K3 2-6-0 (Bachmann)

K1 2-6-0 (Hornby)

D16/3 (Hornby)

O1 2-8-0 (Hornby)

O2 2-8-0 (Heljan)

O4 2-8-0 (Bachmann)

O4/8 2-8-0 (Bachmann/Hornby conversion)

J39 0-6-0 (Bachmann)

J19 0-6-0 (Jaycraft body on Triang chassis)

J20 0-6-0 (McGowan kit)

J15 0-6-0 (Hornby)

J17 0-6-0 (Bec body on Triang chassis)

L1 2-6-4T (Hornby)

J70 0-6-0T tram (K's kit)

J69 0-6-0T (Wills kit)

Y6 0-4-0T tram (Connoisseur kit)

N7 0-6-2T (Wills kit)

Britannia 4-6-2 (Hornby_

Clan 4-6-2 (Hornby)

SR BB 4-6-2 (Hornby)

76xxx 2-6-0 (Hornby)

78xxx 2-6-0 (Bachmann with Michael Edge conversion)

80xxx 2-6-4T (Bachmann)

WD 2-8-0 (Bachmann)

 

As for diesels & dmus, I have about the same amount.

Though in the green diesel period, you only really need (TOPS numbers quoted) class 31 (everywhere) with a small input of 37, 24, 03.  and an even smaller number of dmu types!

 

 

Disgusted, from Cambs 

 

 

 

Stewart 

[Pacific231G]

Reading through this topic, a thought occurred to me - why didn't BR paint mainline coaching stock in all over blue ('a-la-VoR' - and even the roofs in that case!)?

After all, the LMR had had all over maroon (albeit mainly lined), and the SR all over green, so why not all over blue? DMUs got all over blue, as did EMUs, some suburban stock, and NPCS, but for the mainline coaches, it seems they went straight to the blue/grey with the showing of the XP64, and no other experimental liveries were tried (...or were they?).

 

Given that policy at BR of the time was to paint everything corporate blue, I find it strange that someone overseeing the image policies must have had a vestige of aesthetic appreciation and included the grey: Did even they think all blue for coaches a step too far?

 

Mind you, If they had been painted thus, things would have been very drab indeed!

Just wondering...

This has to be a personal view but I always found something rather unpleasant about the all-blue livery used for suburban and local stock (and the VofR!) whereas the blue and grey Intercity livery always seemed quite attractive (though not always the trains that carrried it!)  I never felt this about all maroon (LM, BR and even GWR at one time)  or all green (SR and the rest of Europe) liveries and I rather like the current GWR dark green.

 

I think it must be something to do with certain colours being easier to accept on their own when they appear on a large scale - and a complete train is a fairly large object, Greens, dark reds and browns are closer to natural earth colours but blue in particular is a sky colour so seems to jar slightly as the complete block colour of grounded objects though much better in combination with a complementary shade as with the Blue Pullmans and BR Intercity . The notable exception to this was the dark blue used by CIWL for their sleepers and restaurant cars but this was well relieved by details and lining in gold which gave them a distinctly regal appearance (even when they were serving a rather indifferent lunch) Personally i find brown and cream particularly attractive and I don't think that's just in relation to the GWR as the shades used by Pullman were if anything even more attractive.(though the brown used as a single block colour for their passenger locos by the CF du Nord in France never quite worked for me) but I think that may have had a sense of prestige associated with the trains it was mainly used on. Though I rarely saw it I also rather liked BR's blood and custard livery

 

Many railways everywhere seem to have wanted to move away from the greens, browns and maroons of the steam era as it ended though dark green remained a popular colour for both diesel and electric locos for quite some time (green is a good "engineering" colour for large machines.) SNCF went for a  combination of dark and light greens that were sometines hauled by late steam and unpainted stainless steel for both their most pretige trains (e.g. Le Mistral) and their humblest suburban sets (as did railways in N.America) , BR of course went for blue and grey and almost everywhere except Britain, down to the most obscure narrow gauge line, painted their shiny new railcars in red and cream.from the 1930s onward. The one exception to that in the 1970s seems to have been Austria where local loco hauled trains retained solid dark green for longer than in most countries (along with steam haulage and mixed trains) .   

Edited November 20, 2018 by Pacific231G

[Pacific231G]

As a Cambridge line modeller I must agree on the scarcity of suitable models. I model the 1950s & 1960s (steam finished at Liverpool Street in 1961, and around 1963 further out)(and have been collecting over 50 years) and so far have only managed the following few steam locos. What are we supposed to do?

Ivatt 4 2-6-0 43xxx (Bachmann)

Ivatt 2 2-6-0 464xx (Bachmann)

B1 4-6-0 (Hornby)

B17 4-6-0 (Hornby, old & new versions)

B2 (Hornby, old version with Crownline conversion)

B12 4-6-0 (Hornby)

K3 2-6-0 (Bachmann)

K1 2-6-0 (Hornby)

D16/3 (Hornby)

O1 2-8-0 (Hornby)

O2 2-8-0 (Heljan)

O4 2-8-0 (Bachmann)

O4/8 2-8-0 (Bachmann/Hornby conversion)

J39 0-6-0 (Bachmann)

J19 0-6-0 (Jaycraft body on Triang chassis)

J20 0-6-0 (McGowan kit)

J15 0-6-0 (Hornby)

J17 0-6-0 (Bec body on Triang chassis)

L1 2-6-4T (Hornby)

J70 0-6-0T tram (K's kit)

J69 0-6-0T (Wills kit)

Y6 0-4-0T tram (Connoisseur kit)

N7 0-6-2T (Wills kit)

Britannia 4-6-2 (Hornby_

Clan 4-6-2 (Hornby)

SR BB 4-6-2 (Hornby)

76xxx 2-6-0 (Hornby)

78xxx 2-6-0 (Bachmann with Michael Edge conversion)

80xxx 2-6-4T (Bachmann)

WD 2-8-0 (Bachmann)

 

As for diesels & dmus, I have about the same amount.

Though in the green diesel period, you only really need (TOPS numbers quoted) class 31 (everywhere) with a small input of 37, 24, 03.  and an even smaller number of dmu types!

 

 

Disgusted, from Cambs 

 

 

 

Stewart 

That might be enough for a small shunting layout but I can see you have a real problem with your chosen prototype   

[thenudehamster]

I'm not going to take up space with quoting stewartingram's list again, but taking matters a little further, I would really have liked to model actual GER days. Out of his list, most are Gresley rebuilds of GER designs, imports from the LMS (obviously Riddles influenced) or BR Standards. For all that. the Stratford section had the last 2-4-0's in service; ran the most intensive steam-hauled commuter service in history; gave the eponymous name of "Mogul" to the 2-6-0 wheel arrangement; introduced class colour-stripes on the Jazz trains to make life easier for passengers; ran some of the best continental boat trains; had oil-firing long before anyone else (admittedly to help dispose of waste oil from the carriage gas-lighting plant), and held the record for the longest steam-hauled non-stop run (Liverpool Street to North Walsham) without taking on water; and more. All this yet everyone - including BR management in the early fifties when Gerard Fiennes wanted the new Britannias for Norwich expresses - ;look upon the GER (and the Eastern section of its later successors) as nothing more than a country tramline worthy of nothng more than a passing mention in railway history.

 

Is it just because the GER didn't have huge 100mph express Pacifics, getting world records into the press? Only one named engine? No glamour, just a hard-working, professional railway?

My preference is not for the glamorous Pacifics anyway. I like the smaller engines, the ones that did all the unglamorous, but essential work that made the railway money. But, it seems. people like me aren't in a big enough majority to persuade manufacturers to make those models - so we have to suffer new models of existing types from railways everywhere else in the country. The unique Caledoinan single has been produced in more model forms than you can shake a stick at, as were the Midland singles, but Holden's equally attractive an efficient ones don't get a look in.

 

Do I sound bitter? Damned right I am - which is what my present project is N-scale, based loosely on the Boston and Maine. At least I can get models to run on it!

 

Bazza
An even more disgusted GER fan.

Edited November 22, 2018 by thenudehamster

[Ray M]

A Quick bump for this thread, after 2 years.

Taken from Pinterest.  It says Leeds City 1967.

Sorry i dont know how to do a direct link ?