Kirkby Luneside (Original): End of the line....

[peach james]

Further developments...

 

It may seem like overkill - well it is - but I am using "metric 4 x 2" ie. 95mm x 45mm as the basis for the subframe. A stock of this, in 3.6m lengths, was delivered last weekend.

 

 

Jeff

 

Jeff,

 

There is at least one layout over here that I know of where the builder used metal 2x4's as the frame. After all the fun I have had with reasonably good quality plywood changing shape, and the 1x4's which bowed up to 1/2" on a 6' span, I was sorely tempted towards Aluminum framework, but ended up back with plywood. (it's a little easier to work). I've had to replace some of the table work that supports the staging yard (not fiddle- it's not intended to be fiddled in, just to store/stage) with 1x4 sided versions, as the original ones were 1x2's that went bendy on me.

 

(the layout using metal frames is Mike Walton's, if you want his email, drop me a PM. He sends out a report about monthly after the operating session, the layout is in the Toronto area, and would fit well in the "large layouts" section on here, as well as having a bit of S&C flavor to it)

 

James Powell

[Physicsman]

Jeff,

 

There is at least one layout over here that I know of where the builder used metal 2x4's as the frame. After all the fun I have had with reasonably good quality plywood changing shape, and the 1x4's which bowed up to 1/2" on a 6' span, I was sorely tempted towards Aluminum framework, but ended up back with plywood. (it's a little easier to work). I've had to replace some of the table work that supports the staging yard (not fiddle- it's not intended to be fiddled in, just to store/stage) with 1x4 sided versions, as the original ones were 1x2's that went bendy on me.

 

(the layout using metal frames is Mike Walton's, if you want his email, drop me a PM. He sends out a report about monthly after the operating session, the layout is in the Toronto area, and would fit well in the "large layouts" section on here, as well as having a bit of S&C flavor to it)

 

James Powell

Morning James.

Your comments about the wood frames are spot on. Hence my reasons for going for 4 x 2. I've used 44mm x 44mm softwood on a previous project, with 3/4 inch chipboard tops. It worked ok, but, as with the new layout, it's a permanent feature (well, it's being removed from a spare bedroom at this moment!).

I initially thought that people would criticise my use of 4 x 2, but given that some of the spans are 12' it seemed appropriate.

The recent interest prompts me to post up the subframe plan in my next post.

Cheers James,

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Attached jpeg of subframe plan...

[The Stationmaster]

What kind of point actuation will you be using Jeff?

[Physicsman]

Mike, I'm going to use Cobalts on the scenic side of the layout, wired to a central control panel. I'm not using DCC decoders for this.

Initially, I'm not fitting control in the fiddle yard, though I'll get round to it before the main hillside goes in.

Pound signs continue to flash!

Jeff

[Jason T]

I'd be slightly wary of Cobalts Jeff, they have a tendency to click (due to a manufacturing issue) if you get a bad one. Basically, the cogs on the internals don't align properly at times and they keep on 'going'. They still work, but it's like having a cricket in your ear! I have three of them on my layout where space wouldn't allow me to use a Tortoise without using linkages. You may be lucky and they will replace any faulty ones, but just thought I'd best let you know.

 

Cheers,

 

Jason

[DLT]

Just come across this thread, a great looking project.

Dave.

[Physicsman]

I'd be slightly wary of Cobalts Jeff, they have a tendency to click (due to a manufacturing issue) if you get a bad one. Basically, the cogs on the internals don't align properly at times and they keep on 'going'. They still work, but it's like having a cricket in your ear! I have three of them on my layout where space wouldn't allow me to use a Tortoise without using linkages. You may be lucky and they will replace any faulty ones, but just thought I'd best let you know.

 

Cheers,

 

Jason

 

Thanks Jason,

 

That's the value of the Forum. I've heard some good things about Cobalts, and your objective assessment is valued. I've just started woodwork on the subframe so I'd imagine it'll be a good few months before I try any point motors. I may have to get a Tortoise and compare it to a Cobalt. Any further comments/experiences you have would be appreciated!

 

Btw, I'm very impressed with the amount of work you've put into "Bacup". It's splendid!!

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Just come across this thread, a great looking project.

Dave.

 

Cheers Dave.

 

I'm hoping the project will keep me going for a couple of years - at least! Should be fun, especially as I enjoy building work of all kinds. Thank goodness for power tools!!

 

Jeff

[Jason T]

I would say that if the cobalts were issue free (and I believe that they are now sorting them out) then they are more practical to set up and use than tortoise motors, as they are quite a bit smaller and you clip the wires in rather than solder them on. I've got quite an eclectic mix on Bacup, with Traintronics TT300s, tortoises and cobalts in use, mainly determined by clearance under the baseboards; the tortoise really are quite large. Oh, and all mine are operated by DCC, the TT300 and cobolts are DCC ready but the tortoises aren't.

 

As far as fitting goes, the tortoise and cobalt motors are easy, especially as they both provide drilling templates. The TT300's aren't quite as simple (and I did drill at least one hole in the wrong place, swear and then find a way round it) and I found that they worked better when packed out slightly between the board and the motor itself. The provide a nylon washer to do this but it allowed them to rock from side to side, so I cut some old cork underlay up and used that as well, to keep them level.

 

As for Bacup, thanks for the kind comment. I keep on plugging away at it and have a few too many fires in the iron at the moment (buildings, weathering, track painting, starting to ballast, wiring of the fiddle yard points, scenery, etc) but at least it keeps the interest levels up. I am sure that Kirkby Luneside will be just as good (if not better) and I'll keep watching your progress.

 

p.s. I still can't get Kirkby Lonsdale out of my head when I see the title - wonder if anyone has ever modelled it (or anywhere on the Clapham to Low Gill)? Some beautiful scenery and structures en route.

[Physicsman]

One of the "problems" up here is the number of Kirkby - somethings! I used to drive through Kirkby Lonsdale on the road from Cumbria to Skipton. Now it's Kirkby Stephen - I'll be going through there at 5am tomorrow morning as I head over to see my dad. I guess the name "Kirkby" rang some bells with me and the new project virtually named itself!

 

Thanks for the point motor info. I will keep you posted when I get there...

 

Jeff

Edited June 1, 2012 by Physicsman

[Schubert]

Hi Jeff,

 

Having seen the scenery on your other layout 'in the flesh' I am looking forward to seeing this one as it develops. The room is looking rather impressive. You've managed to build a layout, and convert a garage in the time it has taken me to sort of come up with an idea for a track plan. I really do need to 'get my finger out' and do something constructive !

 

Al

 

 

[Schubert]

Oops, deleted duplicate as posted twice for some strange reason!

Edited June 4, 2012 by Schubert

[Physicsman]

Hi Jeff,

 

Having seen the scenery on your other layout 'in the flesh' I am looking forward to seeing this one as it develops. The room is looking rather impressive. You've managed to build a layout, and convert a garage in the time it has taken me to sort of come up with an idea for a track plan. I really do need to 'get my finger out' and do something constructive !

 

Al

 

Hi Al, thanks for the comments. Glad you've seen the thread. I will no doubt be requesting your expertise to weather my track - when we get to that point! The scenery should be crazy - I've got about 4 times as much to do as the last time - so it will be wonderful (yes, I'm bonkers!!).

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Construction of the subframe commenced shortly after 2pm today. An hour later I have the first support on the wall. Thank goodness for sharp chisels (cheers, dad!!) and power tools!!

 

Attached photos are nothing in themselves, but the start of the next stage of the project! Apologies to true woodworkers who may wince at the pain inflicted on my 4x2 all in the name of railway modelling!!

 

Jeff

Edited June 4, 2012 by Physicsman

[The Stationmaster]

Hmm - ever fancied a few days in the Thames Valley Jeff? (alas almost all of my dad's chisels had worm in the handles as did the rest of his wooden handled tools including all the planes - alrge quantity regrettably had to go although I've still got a few oddments including his adze)

[Physicsman]

Hmm - ever fancied a few days in the Thames Valley Jeff? (alas almost all of my dad's chisels had worm in the handles as did the rest of his wooden handled tools including all the planes - alrge quantity regrettably had to go although I've still got a few oddments including his adze)

 

Afternoon, Mike,

 

I've just spent a couple of days with my dad - he's a retired joiner. I managed to "borrow" a few items - my existing chisels needed a good sharpen, so dad obliged. Out with the oilstone and away he went!

 

I got home a few hours ago and went and bought myself a new jigsaw. The old one was knackered. So the "wood massacre" has begun!

 

I do wonder whether anybody is the least bit interested in my joinery. Then again, if even one person gets an idea it's been worth it.

 

I've set myself a target of 2-3 years for this project. But I can already feel the excitement building...so I keep telling myself "slow down, you old fool!!"

 

Best wishes,

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Another woodwork update. I've finished for the day, but the frame is starting to develop. It's ok to yawn... once you've seen one piece of wood....

 

Jeff

[The Stationmaster]

Another woodwork update. I've finished for the day, but the frame is starting to develop. It's ok to yawn... once you've seen one piece of wood....

Jeff

Are you going to make those 'L' or 'T' girders Jeff - or does the rest of the site built frame ensure they don't twist?

[Physicsman]

Are you going to make those 'L' or 'T' girders Jeff - or does the rest of the site built frame ensure they don't twist?

 

Afternoon Mike,

 

Just come in from the garage and saw your post.

 

The interlocking nature of the subframe structure, with plenty of "half lap" joints (I think thats what they are called!) stops any noticable twist. I should be able to post some photos of this kind of thing tomorrow. I'm making ridiculously quick progress, but there is a lot to be done. And I don't want to finish too soon as I enjoy the construction/joinery so much!

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Maybe this photo - taken 20 mins ago - will show what I mean. There will be many more cross joints, as you will see later.

 

The technique worked well with 44 x 44mm softwood in my last layout, so I'm hoping the bigger joists will do even better...

 

Jeff

['CHARD]

Jeff, I just found this thread and worked out that I'd missed it completely until now - by starting my new job the weekend you launched it, and through the subsequent trials and tribs of the site in general I've evidently never been on the latest updates page at the right time.

 

This looks like an absolute winner in the planning and execution. You've already co-opted a great bunch of followers and advisors to provide the ongoing peer review that I'm prepared to wager will deliver a layout of the highest order. I think you can be assured that devotees of the S&C's spiritual twin main line will be paying a keen interest too!

 

Great stuff...

Edited June 5, 2012 by 'CHARD

[Physicsman]

Hi 'CHARD - great to hear from you. And I especially appreciate YOUR comments as I value your opinions as much as those of anyone else. I've been delighted with the people I've interacted with since I joined the Forum - it was only last November, but it seems longer. The input from all these guys has been fantastic - genuine expertise and genuine interest.

 

Please feel free to offer any comments as you see fit.

 

Re. my layout... I've been developing the plan for over 2 years, and can hopefully use the experiences I've gained (and LOTS of mistakes!!!) from my last layout to produce something worthy of note. I have it all pictured in my head - it's just a case of execution! (And if it doesn't work out right, maybe I should be shot!).

 

Best of luck with whatever you are upto. Did I hear a rumour you were modelling Fell-class diesels on the Waverley Route?

 

All the best,

 

Jeff

[CWJ]

Are you going to make those 'L' or 'T' girders Jeff - or does the rest of the site built frame ensure they don't twist?

 

Are you having a laugh Mike? When I first saw Jeff's photos I thought he was putting a new FLOOR in! He he he...

 

Great to see good old-fashioned mechanical joints being used in the woodwork. Don't think that baseboard will be going anywhere fast. Cutting the pieces for a perfect fit is harder than it looks, as I know from my own fumbling efforts. Keep up the neat work!

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[The Stationmaster]

Are you having a laugh Mike? When I first saw Jeff's photos I thought he was putting a new FLOOR in! He he he...

 

Great to see good old-fashioned mechanical joints being used in the woodwork. Don't think that baseboard will be going anywhere fast. Cutting the pieces for a perfect fit is harder than it looks, as I know from my own fumbling efforts. Keep up the neat work!

Cheers,

Will

Don't worry Will - Jeff is clearly doing a very solid job but I was wondering how he was going to do the joints as those two timbers were apparently 'in final position' so I wondered if he wasn't going to half lap them but had some other idea in mind. Certainly a strong job with timber that size and with his scientific background I bet Jeff has very carefully calculated timber size to avoid any mid-span sag in the future.