RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 19, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2012 Good afternoon. Before Christmas I had asked for some advice on what these D & S Kits were like to build and got some good and positive responses. Further action was not immediate as you see! I have also been advised to sell this van and a GER six wheel brake 3rd coach on an auction site and retire on the proceeds. Well, as they are not my kits, I have not been able to do this. So over this week end I bit the bullet brass etches and made a start on the Sundry Van. I thought that, as this is quite an unusual kit build (well it is for me anyway ) that it might be worth covering on this thread. The instructions are not really comprehensive and I would assume the kits were designed with an experienced builder in mind, or at least someone that knew their van/coach 'bits'. Having built previously a couple of very good Isinglass kits and some beautiful Fozzard coaches, I have gained experience of 'different construction techniques' beyond those required to sort out the superbly buildable Comet Coaches that make up my usual fare. Comet designers really have used their vast experience to plan out 'things that look good but just do not go together without a fight'. I've also built a Lochgorm LNER van as well and that prepared me for fiddly bits, lots of 'sweating' and some interesting ways of forming joints! So here is the basic chassis with the body shell perched on top for pic purposes. So far it has gone OK, however I could not really work out how the ends/sides went together so that was a bit of a 'bodge'. There is a good pic in Peter Tatlow's 'Historic Carriage Drawings, Vol 3 Non passenger coaching stock. The box top 'drawing' helps a bit, but I have to say this has been another learning curve as to what should be put where. Also the hinge etches are weird You can put the droplights (two drops on the same etch) in the closed position and these have 'hinges' at each top corner (that you bend into position) so you can position them behind the window voids using the 'hinges and hinge slots in the side etch thus also giving you two top hinges at the same time! These little hinges of course do not initially fit the slots in the sides! I realised later that you could also position the droplights open and have the hinges fit other slots in the side! Well I fitted the drops closed and fettled the hinges to fit and then just 'drilled' a 5mm hole in each of the the other 16 existing slots and used my traditional hinge method; that is, Frogmore hinges in nice round 5mm holes. They seem to look OK and the solder has filled the slots but not 'over-run' a great deal. The 'huge' holes in the nicely detailed solebars (sweated overlays on the base frame) are for the cast J Hangers; something else I'm going to bodge as the suggested method of joining these to the springs seems just impossible. I'll need several drinks before attempting that part of the job along with the brake levers. Nevertheless, this little kit has turned out to be quite an enjoyable task so far. It's going to be OO and is for someone that has lost the ability to solder such fiddly jobs these days. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine coast Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Nice neat job so far ....looking good ..! Kits .....much better to build than just use as some kind of gilt edged bond ! Regards Trevor ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzer models Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 nice looking work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Knowing nothing about this prototype and not having any reference material to hand I am correct in saying that the 'doors' appear a little odd. The definition of the door opening itself going by where the bottom hinges are placed seems to be completely absent. Should there be an overlay defining the door panels here? Nice soldering work though - especially to avoid filling up all those grooves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine coast Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Kenton ... I see what you mean about the doors ......that makes one heck of a threshold to get over ...! Regards Trevor ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan100 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Perhaps scribed lines are required to represent the edges of the doors? Geoff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 19, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2012 Yup, I forgot the scribe lines (as usual!!!) Out with the scraper thingy and square!! Tis done; thanks for pointing that out and thus proving the advantages of putting up stuff on here.. Rather stupidly I had noted that the doors needed that whilst admiring the etches on Sunday then completely forgot! I'm not letting on to Geoff but I usually forget to do the door etch line on his Gresleys as well until I've done the soldering up- DOH! Wonder why there isn't a half etched line on the existing/original etch as there are not any panel overlays as Kenton mentioned? I'll post some more pics soon as I managed to fiddle the J hangers and 'shackles this P.M.; what a faff that was! P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 D & S = Dint'n'scribe ? Sorry I drew attention to it. I thought there might be an overlay to generate a panel on the bottom of the door. As I said - don't know anything about the prototype. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 20, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2012 LOL Kenton; no problems. Think the doors now look better. Just don't look at the J Hangers; they were a right ar*e to get on and they just would not sit correctly. However, having looked at the state of the van in Tatlow I don't think it matters at all! I've given up for today and am admiring the beautiful pic of an ex LMS 50' Parcles van I have acquired from Mr Bartlett to 'make' me finish that particular build off to a 'fine' standard; no excuses now!! P@ 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Excellent. That scribing makes all the difference - just hope it hasn't weakened the sides Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 20, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2012 Excellent. That scribing makes all the difference - just hope it hasn't weakened the sides Does make a difference and the sides are untroubled, but it has weakened the sides of all those GER bods whose laughs were heard from Liverpool Street to deepest Norfolk Now I've got to sort out the step-boards and brake bits - oh joy. Hah, hah! P @ 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Looking lovely. The missing half-etched lines you had to scribe are one of the few errors Danny's never altered in his kits - they're absent on the 7mm vans too. Just to be annoying pedant for a mo ...in the GER half-yearly returns, from 1897 the raft of vans to this basic design were always labelled 'Sundry Vans' - never 'Sundries Vans' nor 'Sundry's Vans'. Anyhoo, back to my riveting; only 843 to go... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 20, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2012 Thanks Buckjumper. Appreciate your view as a GER man. I assume Danny is the D of D & S? Have to say they are nice etches and not that difficult to put together once you get the hang of his design (pretty good for an ancient kit, unlike others I have come across). I know nothing about these vans (or any other really 'old' stuff) and my only source of info is my Tatlow. Thus I appreciate all comments and tips. I would not be doing these kits if it were not a favour for someone and fortunately they are happy if it looks OK and runs! They are going to finish off the detailing and paint it anyway so they can make a silk purse. P @ 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I assume Danny is the D of D & S? Yep, Danny and his late wife Sylvia. I know nothing about these vans (or any other really 'old' stuff) and my only source of info is my Tatlow. Thus I appreciate all comments and tips. Re-check your emails; I sent you two on 2.11.11 containing five pdf's of info dedicated to these vans. If you've lost 'em I'll resend 'em. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Pulham Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Looking good Phil. The scribed lines do make quite a difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Phil, A point for later, the louvered sides were not actually 'see through' as the louvres were at 45 degrees. I have found that if you paint a piece of plasticard matt dirty black and space it @15 thou off the inside of the finished van behind every louvre it looks very effective -much better than leaving them so you can see light through. Cheers Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Nice looking van. As already said the louvres need blanking off at the end. I look forward to seeing the completed model Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 21, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2012 Tony, I've noted your plasticard method and passed it on to the 'new owner' so she can do this whilst finishing the thing off. Hope that's OK? Rob, the 7mm version is very good by all accounts........ Peter, thanks for that. I can't show the finished van as it will be 'completed' and painted by the lady owner on receipt. I have just done most of the soldering and fiddle as she can't do that these days. Adrian; noted thanks. Cheers, Phil @ 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Pulham Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Rob, the 7mm version is very good by all accounts........ Thanks Phil, I have a couple more D&S kit's in the pile besides the NER horse box that I still haven't finished. - A CLC Brake van and a GCR/LNER CCT - these do look a buit newer in the design than the horse box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Martin Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 If you were looking for additional references, there was an article about these and other, similar GER vans in the MRC in January 1986. There's a 4mm scale drawing and several pages of notes. On the other hand, it looks like you'll have the thing finished by now! Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted April 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2014 Anyone know what the GER Sundry vans were used for? I'm acquiring 7mm scale one which looks very good.With all the vents I'd assume soft fruit, flowers, maybe yeast or even fish? I've not seen photos of any in traffic. Dava Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Dava, there were seven diagrams of Sundry Van, all of which are covered by kits in 7mm. A photo will easily discern which you have as there were visible differences. Dia.32 was designed for yeast traffic, though a second series was utilised for fish and cut flowers. Ragstone Models kit. Dia.33 was designed for meat and fruit traffic. Ragstone kit. Dia.34, which is the subject of this thread, was designed for (predominantly) fruit and some fish traffic, and of course D&S sell the kit. Dia.35 were designated for parcels traffic and comprised of three vehicles externally the same as Dia.34 plus three more converted from Dia.34 in 1909. Dia.36 were designed for bullion. Ragstone kit. Dia.37 was a single Dia.34 conversion in 1905 for continental luggage. Externally alterations: the droplights were blanked off. Dia.38 three more continental luggage vans converted in 1905 from Dia.32, the only external change were the door droplights being blanked off. Hope that helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted April 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2014 Buckjumper, Thank you most kindly for this. It is the D&S kit in 7mm scale. no 6201, so evidently from Dia 34 for fruit & fish. The actual one I've reserved is here. http://www.gauge0guild.com/images/ET/ICE208.jpg Dava Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Buckjumper, Do you know when they lasted to in capital service? I guess they might have gone into departmental service as (not very) mobile stores and the like. Cheers Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Do you know when they lasted to in capital service? I guess they might have gone into departmental service as (not very) mobile stores and the like. Yep, I think all bar one made it to the LNER. The Dia.34 were the longest lived but these were all withdrawn between 1930 and 1937. Three survived beyond that - see below. Thank you most kindly for this. It is the D&S kit in 7mm scale. no 6201, so evidently from Dia 34 for fruit & fish. The actual one I've reserved is here. http://www.gauge0guild.com/images/ET/ICE208.jpg No problem. 6201 was one of three which in 1937 was transferred to Service Stock as a travelling fruit & veg office and worked the W&U line for many years, to the mid-late '50s IIRC Nice model. Pedantically, 6201 was one of ten built to Order B41 and this batch only had one lamp as there were no partitions. But we'll keep that to ourselves Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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