BRealistic Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Thanks Gormo... I'm still fiddling around at the moment... thinking along the lines of putting the pieces together 'as a unit' (on a narrow plastic base plate) so that it's maybe easier to put in place. Only picked up 'the right screws' this morning, and some 60 thou plastikard! Pics in due course!! On the 'lever manufacturing side'... I did say I'd have 30 if you ever did such a thing!!! Anyway, here's hoping. On the matter of that 1.2mm hole not being possible, I've just taken a look at the pin on the clevis that comes with the Gold-N-Rod and, without a vernier to hand and with failing eyesight (!!!) I'd say it was a tad over 1.2... maybe 1.5.... but don'e take my word for it!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hi Alan Yes I thought a base plate would be the thing. Glue the bits to that and you`re in business. I am sticking with the half hinge and sliding rod myself...........I`ve already got all the bits so too late to start changing now. The process of manufacturing is laser cutting and they tell me 2mm is the minimum.......you gotta believe them I suppose. Any way it`s an easy fix. I will go with a 2mm hole. To that I will connect a 2mm rod with a short right angle bend in it. The short arm of the right angle will fit in the hole and be retained on the other side with a nylon slide on washer.The other end of the rod will have the inner from a choc block so that it can connect to wire or rod or snake or whatever. Just have to get it drawn up in CAD. Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Hi Gormo Can't see why you'd want to change from the half hinge, anyway, as it creates a more robust unit compared with the choc blocks... and you have all the necessary skills and cutting/drilling tools needed to put it all together. The choc blocks are more of an 'off the shelf' answer which I can cope with (!)... along with the snakes in lieu of the cranks. Just working on a base plate that uses the minimum of materials.. and will actually allow a bit of adjusstment before tightening. Thinking washers over slits (or enlarged screw holes) will probably be the answer. Also trying to improve/make easier the initial alignment under the baseboard, having come across templates that 'match' the plate, or drilling through more than just the tie bar hole so you have points to join with a ruler. Suspect I'm trying to reinvent the wheel, as all this must have done before... many times over! Enjoyable nonetheless! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 Hi Alan I have a suggestion for alignment purposes.........it`s just an extension of what I said before re the " T " wire. Make up one of your choc block mechanisms but lock down all the sliding bits with the locking screws in the choc blocks. Lock the centre sliding part to one side. Don`t attach any snakes. Make sure the wire that goes up through the tie bar is over long, maybe 20-30mm above the tie bar. Use a peg or bulldog clip, as with the " T ", to hold the wire once it is pushed up through the tie bar. You should now have a mechanism dangling under the baseboard. Line it up the same as the " T " process but to one side, as your centre choc block is to one side. Mark your lines and away you go. You could probably use that mechanism as your sacrificial mechanism for alignment purposes. The slots to allow sliding is a great idea........the more facility for adjustment the better. To make that easier you could just glue, to the bottom of the choc blocks, two strips of plastic/ metal / wood or whatever, parallel to each other but separated by a gap for the retaining screws. I always like to break these things down to their simplest form to eliminate cutting and drilling etc. and over engineering and in doing so I think you can achieve more consistent results. I would like to also invite any one else to jump in here with suggestions..........because Alan and I are getting lonely. lol !!! Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Hi Gormo Before taking on board what you've just explained (!) I just thought I'd upload a few pics of my 'progress so far'... if you can call it progress!! I'll add a bit of an explanation at the bottom. Basically it’s Andy’s unit stuck to a piece of plastic… well 3 pieces in all, and with the tie bar rod set in a plastic plug… which seems to work fine. The other two plastic pieces do the job of Andy’s cardboard, giving clearance for the centre block to move freely to and fro. The intention was to stick what I’ve so far produced to another, wider, piece of 60 thou plastikard to make the unit ‘really’ rigid, but actually it’s pretty rigid as it is. The wider piece was to have screw slots for fitting to the baseboard, using washers to enable ‘fine’ adjustment. Maybe, though, I’ll just have one wide piece of 60 thou, but having said that, the narrow piece (based on width of choc block) made it easy to locate the two smaller pieces at the ends nice and square (with a need to ensure they don’t interfere with the movement of the centre chock block). One thing I haven’t done is attach a couple of moveable choc block innards on either side of the middle choc block so as to ‘regulate’ it’s movement (and that of the tie-bar rod). Didn’t think this would be necessary… and don’t know if this is ‘a mistake’, but the hole in the plate limits excessive movement of the tie-bar rod, and I’m anticipating being able to adjust/set the movement/throw when fitting the snake. By the way, I popped a short piece of wire into the end of hollow inner rod of the snake (yellow) to improve rigidity and the grip of the choc block screw that holds it in place. It’s a ‘perfect fit’, and is actually the wire I’d kept when changing a couple of those round paper lamp shades. One thing that gives me more than a little cause for concern is the ‘ability’ of impact adhesive to hold the two end choc blocks in place on the plastic plate…. so I’ve drilled two pilot holes for screws, which I can add once the unit has been ‘perfectly aligned’ using the ‘the other’ screws (with washers) that hold the plate. Anyway, I hope this makes sense… and please, anyone who's interested, chip in with comments Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 Alan, What can I say???????..........Mate !!!........That is one very neat little unit you have made there and great pics. I would not worry too much about the little adjusters either side of the centre choc block because if you do the plate with the adjusting slots, that will have the same effect. If you add the adjuster plate you could use the centre hole to align it with the plates you already have. It would add rigidity and adjustability at the same time. If you think about the standard electric point motor on the market..........there is no adjustment ,apart from fitting it in the right place at installation, and it has a fixed amount of travel. Obviously slightly more than the tie bar travel. So what you have made can be easier to fit and adjust. Just allow enough travel via the centre hole on the centre choc block and away you go. If you feel more adjustment is desirable........extend the length of the brass rod that butts up to your snake on the centre choc block and put a choc block inner on the outside of the end choc block. That adjusts travel East, and the centre choc block butting up to the end choc block limits travel West. To adjust travel West use the sliding baseplate. Does that make sense?????.......I don`t know if I explained that well enough????...........Anyway keep up the good work Alan !!! I am still re -jigging things with the lever design........I need to walk away from it for a while I think.... Cheers Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Following this with interest and good to see the refinements to my choc block idea. Still got about 4 or 5 points to do so will include Alan's upgrades. Nice bit of team work there, chaps. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Cheers Brian, have a nice break... you deserve it... and thanks for the inspiration! And Andy, thanks so very very much for posting your choc block idea! Certainly less than 50p a unit, while the snake I've decided to use was one of the more expensive at £6 a pair, but, they have sufficient lengths and parts to make 4 links to the front of the baseboard. So at £2 a go, that's £40 for 20... instead of around £3-400 for slow-mo motors. Might feel flush enough to buy a hex juicer or two to sort the polarity. Will probably post a pic of the 'final' thing... just need to find some appropriate washers and flat-headed pozi-drive screws. I understand the pozi drive ones are 'essential' for 'under baseboard' work... if you want to avoid pulling your hair out in frustration! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Evenin` All, He says with elbows bent and thumbs locked behind his braces. I have dealt with the changes required for the cutting of my levers and I have added some adaptability in the process. I hope the changes go down well with my laser cut man. I`ll send the info off to him shortly. The changes consist of re-locating and enlarging the upper hole on the lever and I have altered the profile of the lever slightly, I think for the better. These changes have allowed me to attach a choc block inner to the lever which in turn allows fitting of cable, rod or snake. I have some pics below.....but I should point out that the levers used are just sacrificial ones,for the purpose of development.........so they are a bit rough around the edges.......yet they give a good indication of where the whole thing is going. You will notice also that a choc block strip has been added. This may be of some assistance to some of you out there trying to fit this system to your layout. The choc block inners are at 10mm centres, which matches the levers exactly..........so possibly very handy for setting up with cables or snakes. You will notice the Black adjusting screw for the rod. The screws that come with the choc block have a 6mm long thread. This is too long ,when using rod, and doesn`t allow enough clearance with the neighbouring mechanism. The black screws have a 5mm long thread and work well with the rod.. The choc block inner will take up to 3mm rod, however 3mm rod would require a 4mm screw........not so easy to find at a reasonable price The next pic gives a better view of clearances The following pics give a general overview Onwards and upwards............I feel it`s all starting to come together nicely. I don`t intend to use the choc block strips as guides for my own layout. I will be mounting the levers on a backing board with holes for the rods to pass through. The rods will then be connected to rocker arms. This will allow me to mount the lever frame well below baseboard height. There will be a box enclosing the mechanisms and I hope it will look rather splendid. Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 You're comng along in leaps and bounds, Gormo, in producing the Rolls Royce of manual control! Those levers look even better then the last... and look really pleasing when grouped together. I had in mind locating whatever I use near to where the turnouts are located... maybe in two's or three's... but haven't given that much thought just yet. Might cost more in brackets and nuts, but this would be off-set by not having to buy 'extensions' to the snakes. I can see myself zooming up and down on my swivel chair! You seem to be saying you'll be getting 'someone' to make the levers for you... something I'd HAVE to do if I wanted to follow suit. What kind of firms have you gone to, and what have their quotes been like? ... or is that a trade secret, and you're going into mass production?!! Anyway, must finish off my choc block TOU (as the profs seem to call them!). Just finalising it's size and where to locate screw holes etc to make replication as straightforward as poss. Keep up the good great work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 You're comng along in leaps and bounds, Gormo, in producing the Rolls Royce of manual control! Those levers look even better then the last... and look really pleasing when grouped together. I had in mind locating whatever I use near to where the turnouts are located... maybe in two's or three's... but haven't given that much thought just yet. Might cost more in brackets and nuts, but this would be off-set by not having to buy 'extensions' to the snakes. I can see myself zooming up and down on my swivel chair! You seem to be saying you'll be getting 'someone' to make the levers for you... something I'd HAVE to do if I wanted to follow suit. What kind of firms have you gone to, and what have their quotes been like? ... or is that a trade secret, and you're going into mass production?!! Anyway, must finish off my choc block TOU (as the profs seem to call them!). Just finalising it's size and where to locate screw holes etc to make replication as straightforward as poss. Keep up the good great work! Hi Alan Thanks for that............they`re still the same old point levers.............just changed a bit..........i don`t know about the Rolls Royce connection........Morris 1000 maybe......cheap and practical! I think the location of levers is just a personal preference...............you can make it work either way.........as this topic has shown..........if you put your mind to it you can make it work. Hey Alan..........take it easy on that swivel chair mate.........sounds like you might need a braking system to stop you getting swept under the far end of the layout.............well maybe that`s another topic..........OH&S for railway modellers. I`m off now.........more testing and calculations to be done.............Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Alas.....Bad News !!! A friend has shown me a page saved from the web some time ago which shows a guy from Australia, of all places, with almost an identical system ( Armstrong Point Levers ) to the one I have been banging on about here. Well there you go !!!!.........my idea is not unique, just more refined than the other I have seen. ......Oh well.......such is life. I still really have not found a 100% satisfactory system of manufacture.......I also do not want to be treading into potentially dangerous copyright areas...................more research needs to be done. Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 That's really bad news Gormo if it means an end to your levers. Was always hoping you might go 'into production'! I did google 'Armstrong Point Levers', but nothing of note came up, and certainly not an item to purchase. There was a thread in 2009 in which mention was made of a website... but that it had completely disappeared. Hope it's just a hiccup that can be resolved! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hello All, Research reveals no significant theat of treading on somebody`s shoes............therefore......I will press on. I have redesigned the lever to enable easier cutting and also it can now be mounted with the choc block inner either on the left or on the right..........just for you left handers out there. I have some rough drawings below. and a 3 dimensional view I will be off the radar possibly ?????.....next week.........Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Rough drawings you call 'em!! .... but good news all the same! Been looking all over for something quite similar... without any luck! Is the 3mm thickness the optimum, as that's just about on the limit of the linking pin/nib in the Gold-N-Rod clevis, while the gap (as it comes) is nearer 2mm than 3. Same with the 'less expensive' ones too. Would 2.5mm ally (or even 2mm) be too easily bent?? Just a thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hi Alan The 3mm thickness is the optimum for me for strength mainly. I think you are worried about connecting to the lever via a clevis and pin........have I got that right or not????........any way........my intention is to have each lever fitted with a choc block inner as shown above in post # 111. So there is no need for a clevis.........just connect to the lever choc block with snake or wire or rod, tighten the retaining screw and thats it. The choc block inner pivots on the screw that secures it to the lever, so hopefully everything moves in harmony In summary......the lever, if manufactured, would be supplied with choc block inner, washer spacer and black 5mm screw. That should solve any connection problems for cables,wires, rods or snakes up to 3mm diameter. Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Yes, you are right Gormo... and thanks for explaining why I wouldn't have to worry!! Choc blocks at both ends makes for a straightforward set up (in my case). Keep up the good work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Evenin All I thought I should post another drawing to give a better idea of the assembly of the lever. There is still much to do and I am committed to another project for a couple of weeks.........so this will be the only offering for some time. I have other drawings with ideas for Bellcranks and Rocker Arms.......and I stress " ideas".....and they can be accessed from a free website I have started. The link is..........https://sites.google.com/site/gormospointlevers/ Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 In case there are one or two still interested (and as a finale), here are a few pics of the 'final' version of the 'Choc Block TOU' I'll be using on my forthcoming layout. Quite straightforward to make and not all that time consuming. Difficult to put a price on, but can't be more than a pound… with extra for the '˜snake'. Photo 1 is of 'the operational unitâ' with snake in place and pushed through (hence the brass rod poking out the opposite end!). As is clearer in the other photos, I've used a large and a narrow piece of 60 thou plastikard, the latter beneath the choc blocks and stuck centrally to the former. I've not added a slither of plastikard under the end choc blocks (as I trialled before) because the centre one slides easily without them. The end choc blocks are secured are secured with self-tapping screws, as no adhesive I tried (of which there were many!) would hold them with real permanency. The screws self-tap within the thickness of the choc block plus plastic, so the unit is 'ready to fit' using the 4 'normal' screws at the corners. All screws are 'pan-headed' so they lie flat with the surface, and they're all pozi-headed too to make under-baseboard fixing a whole lot easier. The holes at the corners are oversize for the screws, and with a washer in place will allow quite a bit of play to enable 'spot-on' alignment. In the centre of the central choc block you can just make out the plug I inserted (from plastic rod) and the piece of piano wire I force fed into a hole I'd drilled into it. It's an absolutely fast fit, believe me! Photo 2 is simply a sidish-on view (without the snake, now) Photo 3 shows the underside (or is it the top?!), and you can see the 'non-protruding' points of the self-tapping screws. The central hole is 6mm dia (as are the corner holes) which is ample for the throw of the point blades. Photo 4 is an end-on view showing the central placement of the narrow piece of plastikard. Being narrow helps in locating the choc blocks where they need to be, and saves money as the unit is rigid enough without having two larger pieces. The double thickness (beneath the choc blocks) is needed to take the self-tapping screws and, of course, contributes towards rigidity Photo 5 is the first stage of production. The measuring out so that pilot'marks' for the holes can be made with one of those pointy tools prior to drilling. I drill all 7 the size of the hole in a choc block (3mm I think), then enlarge the centre and corner holes to 6mm. The measurements I'm using are a mix of metric and imperial! They're based on what actually looked right to me, and the long side was best described in 'English'! I don't suppose any of the measurements are 'critical', it's just that they each had to serve a particular purpose. Anyway, food for thought, perhaps, if you're thinking about 'going manual'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 Hi Alan Very Neat !!!!.......and good pics as well. I am wondering if this topic is nearing an end??........You and I seem to be the only ones contributing lately. Oh well that`s the way it goes. Any way your effort above is comendable and I think any one wishing to go manual will find plenty of options here. Keep up the good work..............Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Thanks Gormo, and I think you're right on all counts. You'll have to keep us updated on your progress with the levers (please!)... but for the time being, it seems, all's gone quiet on the 'point-changing' front! Mind you, I'm busily knocking out another 5 units this morning! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Good to see how this has progressed and chuffed to see the choc blocks featuring. Nice bit of combined brainstorming guys. Been busy at work so haven't been active recently. Very interested to try and make some of the point levers for my own layout sometime. All the best, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 Hi All I am busy as well........I am interstate at the moment on a borrowed laptop so unable to contribute too much for a week or so.............Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Hi Alan You and I seem to be the only ones contributing lately. Lots of us are reading your progress with great interest though. Keep up the good work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi Hayfield Thanks for that...........it`s good to know the interest is still there.............it will be good to get back home and get things rolling again. Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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