IZA (Hfirrs3) Cargowaggon Twin Vans in S7

[Pugsley]

Thanks Howard.

 

That picture above is an A2 sheet with the majority of the parts on, so won't be the final size. I'm hoping that I can reduce everything to two A4-ish size sheets for each wagon, to make postage easier should I decide to sell some of the parts to help with the costs. To reduce the amount of tooling each pair of sheets will contain enough parts to make either an IZA-A, or IZA-B, so there will be 4 sheets per pair. Or something like that, anyway!

[jonhall]

Thats the thing that a lot of would be kit designers forget - how they are going to put their product in the post!!

 

You could think about trying to get a further 1/2 fold on your A4 sheet (lengthwise) if you can do that then you won't need as much packaging to protect it - and packaging weighs, so you end up paying postage for hardboard.

 

Even if you don't want to comercialise this, you might one day want to sell the rights to someone else.

 

Jon

[Pugsley]

Great idea about the fold in the centre of the sheet Jon, so much so, that I've used it!

 

Like just about everything related to this project, the artwork is taking longer than anticipated, although I've nearly got the first sheet completed. This is an overview of how things stand at the moment:

 

 

For those unfamiliar with etch artwork, the black bits are the metal, the white are where the metal will be fully etched through, red is half etch front, blue is half etch rear. I do try to keep half etch rear to a minimum, but this is just my personal preference.

 

This stage has uncovered a couple of minor errors, mostly where I haven't cut slots for other parts to fit into, but I think I've got all of those now. Once this sheet is complete, I'll split it into two files, one for the front and one for the rear. The front file will have all blue areas coloured in black, and all of the red coloured in white, the rear file will be the reverse, but I have to add all of the tags into that file. I'm sure there's probably a quick way using layers, but I'm not that proficient with the Solid Edge program yet, so am sticking to what I know in the short term.

 

More as it happens

[tomstaf]

Hi Martin,

 

It's looking good. However, currently it looks like you'd have to mark out the positions of the cable ties?? (part 106), and then work out a way of holding the ties down whilst soldering them onto the wagon. Based on how time consuming it was to fit the cable ties on to the 455 I'd recommend putting a tab on the back of the cable ties, and a locating slot on the side frames. That way each one will be perfectly aligned and much easier and quicker to solder on to the side frames. You also wouldn't have to clean up the front of the tab on show cause the back would form both the attachment to the etch frame and double up as the locating pin on the wagon. I've attached a rough sketch to show you what I mean. A is how it'd work on the wagon and B is how it'd attach to the etch frame. HTH

 

 

Cheers

 

Tom

[Pugsley]

Judging from your picture, I take it that it's the ferry eyes that you're referring to (part A84-B90)? There is a tab that fits into a slot in the chassis rails - I'm building these so will have made it as easy as possible to build!

 

Thanks for the suggestion though.

[tomstaf]

Judging from your picture, I take it that it's the ferry eyes that you're referring to (part A84-B90)? There is a tab that fits into a slot in the chassis rails - I'm building these so will have made it as easy as possible to build!

 

Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

The bit I was referring to is (A106-B116) which I thought was the bit circled in orange on the pic below. Have I misinterpreted what A106-B116 is?

 

 

Cheers

 

Tom

[Pugsley]

Yep, A106-B116 is the A shaped plate underneath the writing, on the artwork, which is the inner end plate. A84-B90 is the part you've circeld in orange, that does have a tab that fits into a slot on the chassis, you can just make out the tab on the end in the artwork pic (it's not very clear though).

[tomstaf]

Yep, A106-B116 is the A shaped plate underneath the writing, on the artwork, which is the inner end plate. A84-B90 is the part you've circeld in orange, that does have a tab that fits into a slot on the chassis, you can just make out the tab on the end in the artwork pic (it's not very clear though).

 

Excellent stuff I think I need to invest in some more powerful glasses hehe

 

Cheers

 

Tom

[Pugsley]

I've had an email notification of a minor setback today, two of the sprues of parts have been rejected by Shapeways at the manufacturing stage, as the walls are a little thin in places. I must admit I thought they were OK, but it appears I was wrong! It's more of an inconvenience than anything, I can amend the parts no problem, it's the additional shipping charge that's the real bug*er, I'm going to have to pay the full amount again for two little parts.

 

Still, I'll check more thoroughly next time.

 

The etch artwork looks like it might actually run to three sheets, I've completed the first and the second is filling up rapidly! There will be 4 sheets in total, as the spring components will be etched in phosphor bronze for a planned working spring effect. I'm hoping to put some serious time in over the weekend to get them finished and sent off.

[Pugsley]

All three sheets are now completed:

 

 

It's been a bit of a challenge to get everything onto the 3 sheets, and as it is I'll need 2 x sheet 3 per wagon. This is the composite artwork - I now need to make a separate front and back file for each one, and adjust the colours accordingly.

 

I think there's no hope of having anything built before the competition deadline - I'll have some etched sheets and 3D printed parts, if I'm lucky. I'll ask for this thread to be moved to the kitbuilding/scratchbuilding area in due course. I'm a bit disappointed, but I think I set myself too big a challenge with this project to design and build a model to this standard in just 6 months. Still, I've achieved something that I might have put off a bit longer otherwise, so there's comfort to be had in that.

 

Onwards and upwards!

[jonhall]

Great idea about the fold in the centre of the sheet Jon, so much so, that I've used it!

 

. Once this sheet is complete, I'll split it into two files, one for the front and one for the rear. The front file will have all blue areas coloured in black, and all of the red coloured in white, the rear file will be the reverse, but I have to add all of the tags into that file. I'm sure there's probably a quick way using layers, but I'm not that proficient with the Solid Edge program yet, so am sticking to what I know in the short term.

 

I think (on reflection) that making that fold line into a mostly-cut-with-tabs-remaining line would make it easier to fold?

 

You will find layers easier to work with in the long run!

 

How big is the third sheet? if its wider than the first two then you don't get the benefit of the reduced width packing - I guess you won't want to re-draw, but you might have even achieved a 3-way split of the long sheets?

 

Don't forget to print your sheet on paper, take it away and look at what you have actually drawn (not what you think you have drawn) its quite easy to forget tabs etc, and I find it easier to notice mistakes on paper.

 

Do you really want your etched part numbers cut all the way through?

 

It looks prety complicated to me, I'm glad I don't have to build them!

 

J

[Pugsley]

There are a lot of parts, but it shouldn't be that complicated. Most parts that aren't overlays are located with slots and tabs, so it should be time consuming, rather than difficult.

 

Good thinking about the fold line, I'll add it some etched through sections. The 3rd sheet is 20mm wider than the folded other sheets, unfortunately it was the only way I could get everything on it.

 

I'm also now coming round to the idea that layers would be easier - I've had a bit of a minor setback in terms of getting the completed artwork out of Solid Edge. I can't seem to export the colours properly, and it's also removing/hiding the text. I think I can overcome it, but it's going to take a bit more work, unfortunately.

 

As I'd planned to do separate front and rear artwork, without layers, I'd done the text in white to save me having to change the colour later on - I'll just delete it when it comes to making the file for the rear. It will still only be half etched from the front.

 

Thanks for the tip about checking - I'll definitely print it out and check it over.

[Pugsley]

I said that one day my prints would come, and that day was today!

 

A box arrived from Shapeways, containing some of the 3D printed parts - here they are with the obligatory coin of the realm:

 

 

 

The brake linkages and changeover handles have come out well. There is some stepping visible on the brake linkages, but it's on the top, which is the best place it could be, and it's also being viewed in extreeeeme close-up - each link is little over 15mm long. I'm now wondering if the changeover levers are actually too small to cast, but I'm going to get the caster to give it a go and see what happens.

 

I'm not quite so sure about the buffer parts though. The finish looks a bit irregular, but doesn't feel too bad on the outside though, I'm going to try putting thin layers of paint on to see if it will help. I think they'll probably be OK, if not I might have to reconsider how I do those parts.

 

Strangely, the parts that arrived today were the ones that were rejected last time round, being re-uploaded and ordered after the initial large order for the rest of the parts. I'd better check with Shapeways what's happening with those.

 

Still, I've created parts virtually, uploaded them to the internet and had actual physical parts delivered to me. How cool is that!

[Pugsley]

The excitement of receiving the main order of parts today has been somewhat tempered by the crap finish on some of them. It's quite disappointing after the quality of the first two to arrive.

 

It's the same kind of finish that Missy had on part of her Peckett print and it looks like some kind of machine problem to me, as on all of the affected parts at least some of the model is actually perfect. I will be raising a complaint with Shapeways in due course, as it's nothing to do with the design - the partial good quality is testimony to that.

 

Here's an overview of the goodies:

 

I'm particularly pleased with the axleboxes, the FAG on the side of the axlebox may be visible, but the DB on the cover and the part number haven't come out.

 

Some of those are affected slightly by the poor finish, but I think I can probably deal with it. However, the brake reservoirs, brake cylinders, brake shoes and to a lesser extent the buffer heads, have all been affected by it:

 

There seems to be something about brake related components! Having said that, the hand brake wheels have come out nicely

 

I'll be interested to see what kind of a response I get out of Shapeways, I believe that they've been less than helpful with problems of this nature in the past, although I do have an advantage in as much that only part of the affected components are affected. If they won't reprint them, i guess I'll have to see what I can do to improve the finish of them, but some of the brake shoes are effectively useless, I don't think I'll be able to rescue those.

[Pugsley]

As denoted by the change of forum area, this project has been officially abandoned for the time being, having failed to get anything built before the competition deadline.

 

Updates will be a little more sporadic now as I concentrate on other projects, but it is not dead, only sleeping.

[Howard Smith]

A shame really as the concept was progressing nicely and it was an interesting topic to follow. Looking forward to when you get back to them.

Regards,

Howard

[tomstaf]

As denoted by the change of forum area, this project has been officially abandoned for the time being, having failed to get anything built before the competition deadline.

 

Updates will be a little more sporadic now as I concentrate on other projects, but it is not dead, only sleeping.

 

Hi Martin,

 

The print issues must be uber frustrating after all the design and research effort you've put in. I'm glad the project isn't dead but is it sleeping or snoozing? hehe

 

Cheers

 

Tom

[Pugsley]

A bit, but there is something in the way that they're being printed that is causing the problem, as the reprints were almost as bad! All it means is that I'll have to devise a way of finishing the parts before continuing and I think that I now have enough good ones between the two sets, and I can use the worst ones to experiment on.

 

The project is only snoozing for a bit, while I get the 37 done - that's been on the go for nearly three years now, so I figure it's about time I got it done. I've got no excuse now, as I've got everything I need to complete it, except possibly enough courage to tackle the paint job!

[lyneux]

Hi Martin,

 

I've just re-read this thread from start to finish as have been thinking about these in 4mm. Did you send the etch artwork off to PPD in the end?

 

I filled in a Shapeways survey yesterday asking for them to add print orientation to their offering. I guess you can print the parts yourself now though, eh?

 

Guy

[Pugsley]

Not yet, there was a bit of a setback with the artwork, Jon was right when he said that layers would be easier in the long run!  The first two sheets are done, I just need to get round to finishing off the third, so should have something to show for all the work in the next few months.  Yes, I can print my own parts these days, with a better finish than FUD - drop me a line if you ever need anything doing.

[Pugsley]

Nearly a year later, it's time to drag this thread back from the depths - a fair bit has happened since the last update - some of my 3D prints have been turned into brass castings and some of the etched parts have been redesigned since new information came to light.

 

I've done a fair bit of work to the ends and the chassis - everything else was close enough (within a mm or so) to be left alone.  Here's a render of how things stand now:

 

 

IMO the modifications have definitely been worth it, I now just need to flatten out the altered parts in my CAD program and substitute the modified parts for the originals on the artwork drawings.  I'm also going to change the layout of the sheets slightly, both to accommodate the new chassis parts without having to redo the whole of the sheets, but also there are some components, required in multiple, that would be better placed on sheet 3, of which two are required per wagon.

 

I don't know if the chassis modifications have been quite so worth it - they're not really visible unless they roll over in a derailment!  I think it falls into the category of knowing it's there and deriving satisfaction from knowing that it's right.

 

 

 

I'm very pleased with the way that the castings have come out so far.  There's a few more bits to finalise - the buffers need a bit more work and these will also be sent off for casting once completed.  I'm hoping to start that process at some point tomorrow.  So far we have:

 

Handbrake mechanism and wheel

 

The suspension mounts

 

Door gear parts

 

Brake linkages.

 

The only problem left to solve is the springing.  I want the springs to work like the prototype, in the same way as the MMP kits do, but I don't know if the thickness of phosphor bronze I'd need to use to represent the parabolic springs convincingly is going to be too stiff to make an effective spring.  I'm going to get some to start experimenting with, but if anyone reading this has any ideas about a suitable material, I'd be pleased to hear from you.

[simon br blue]

Good to see the thread alive again, also liking the castings.

 

for springing thin brass would be good if you could get it soft enough.  Or try some printed springs (hope clip below works).

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/simon_br_blue/th_DSCF0347.mp4

[Western Star]

Hello Martin,

What software tools are you using for development of the complete drawing and for creating the files for printing / etching?

 

Thank you, Graham

[Pugsley]

Thanks Simon, I might see what I can do brass-wise, but my worry is that it's going to be too soft and will bend once then retain that form.  The printed spring may not be a bad idea, though, yours certainly looks very effective in that video.

 

Graham, it's Geomagic Design, formerly Alibre Design, with the artwork finished off in Solid Edge 2D.

[Pugsley]

The wagon now exists in the flesh! Well, the metal really.

 

 

There's nothing quite like the feeling you get when you open up the paper and look at the frets you've designed for the first time. Especially when you cast your eyes over them and all the pieces are there, you haven't forgotten to put tags on any part and the whole thing seems to have come out as designed!

 

 

 

Each of the two wagons per set is made up of 1 each of the two larger sheets and two each of the smaller sheets.

 

 

The above pic shows the MMP 35T tank kit, that I'm currently working on, sat on the floor of one of the vans, just to give an idea of size. These are big wagons! Each twin set is going to be quite imposing, I think. I can't wait to get started!

 

There's still a bit more to do with some of the fittings - the biggest being the springs, which I still haven't quite decided what I'm going to do about. The next biggest is the buffers - I need to run off a couple of prototype parts, to make sure the concept is sound, before sending those off for casting as well. I also need to work out what I'm going to do about wheels - I want to obtain some that are properly profiled front and rear, possibly with a properly tapered axle as well.