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Anti-English vandalism - Snowdon




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#51 Removed a/c_Max Stafford

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:07

The fact is that modern Welsh is in fact derived from the common British language spoke all over the mainland south of the Clyde-Forth gap prior to the arrival of the Saxons and only stamped out when the philistine Normans came jackbooting their way around the island, putting up walls and sticking price tags on everything. ;-)

Dave.

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#52 royaloak

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:08

I would be interested to know (without knowing the specifics) whether the SMR management are planning any anti-vandalism measures, and whether this phenomenon has afflicted other railways in the area, or tourist attractions etc.?

Maybe they should employ a British Bulldog!

Just an idea mind! :nono:

#53 Removed a/c_dilbert

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:11

Kenton,

You should at least go to the Festival Interceltique that is held in Lorient in Brittany each summer - that way you can kill two birds with one stone. It's a two week festival - English is the general language spoken that supports an overall cultural identity. There are Celts from quite a few nations that turn up including Spain and Portugal. The cultural theme is what counts, not the the language(s) spoken.

Back to the OP - the greatest act of vandalisim occured when I was a kid - it was the flooding of a valley to create 'Llyn Ystradau'.. dilbert

Edited by dilbert, 27 March 2012 - 12:13 .


#54 Bon Accord

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:14

I'm sure there are a few members on here who remember how Scottish Gaelic was treated not too long ago - where as a child if you used it in school you'd be punished with the cane or the belt. This occurred upto the 1970s and the abolition of corporal punishment, and even into the 1980s where some were vehemently against it.
From the 19th century onwards there was a concerted drive by government to completely eradicate Gaelic, starting from the ground up - by forbidding and punishing its use in schools. This went on to the point where only around 1% of the population of Scotland are now fluent in the language, although that is increasing again as the years go on due to more pro active national and local government policies
Now I don't know if a similar situation/persecution existed in Wales, but it's hardly surprising some people are a bit touchy about their language!

Edited by Bon Accord, 27 March 2012 - 12:17 .

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#55 bluebottle

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:20

Well, you've managed to belittle everyone else bar Dabs who has responded to this nonsense - which was discrimination of some kind. :stinker:
Best, Pete.


OOO - you make me sound like the late Hamish Imlach, who used to say (tongue in cheek) "I'm no' prejudiced - I hate everybody!" :rolleyes:
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#56 Poggy1165

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:21

While there are some Welsh people with unpleasant attitudes - as there are English people with similar - I think a lot of the problem is that many English visitors have no regard at all for the history, culture or way of life of Wales and let it be known. These historical and cultural issues are higher up the tree of priorities in Wales than they are (generally speaking) in England.

I visit Wales a lot, and can honestly say I've not had any problems that might not equally be come across in certain parts of England where there is an 'attitude' to incomers, and usually I've had no problems at all. Mind you, I like Wales and its history and don't treat the locals as if they are some kind of yokel sub-species. I have noticed that some of them switch naturally from English to Welsh and back as their conversation progresses, and this just seems to be part of their way of talking. I'm not cocky enough to imagine they're talking about me, and if by some chance they are having a laugh behind my back, so be it - I'll just put it down to ignorance, nothing to do with their place of birth. Some of my ancestors were Welsh, so some bits of me, at least are 'coming home'.

Edited by Poggy1165, 27 March 2012 - 12:22 .

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#57 Kenton

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:30

I don't think you can preserve a language as though it were some static thing that could be kept in amber or a glass case. It's owned by the people who speak it - which, contrary to the view of a lot of people, is not done merely out of a desire to be awkward, or historic, or whatever, but simply because it's the way they run their lives in the place where their families have done for generations past.


Any language evolves - even English. But the point I was trying to make is that in the current global world communication with our neighbours is increasingly important. Language itself should not be promoted as a barrier. It happens due to history of empire that English is the common language, it is therefore the one that has become the expected form of international communication. There is nothing wrong with any other language, just that communicating between different language identities is extremely difficult unless there is that commonality. The English do expect others to speak English to communicate with them when in other countries for that main reason. Who knows in a few decades time we will all be expected to speak some other internationally recognised language. But as I said the language is not the issue here it is the attitude and sentiment that was expressed.

#58 Fat Controller

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 13:02

I'm sure there are a few members on here who remember how Scottish Gaelic was treated not too long ago - where as a child if you used it in school you'd be punished with the cane or the belt. This occurred upto the 1970s and the abolition of corporal punishment, and even into the 1980s where some were vehemently against it.
From the 19th century onwards there was a concerted drive by government to completely eradicate Gaelic, starting from the ground up - by forbidding and punishing its use in schools. This went on to the point where only around 1% of the population of Scotland are now fluent in the language, although that is increasing again as the years go on due to more pro active national and local government policies
Now I don't know if a similar situation/persecution existed in Wales, but it's hardly surprising some people are a bit touchy about their language!

Exactly the same official attitude existed in Wales at least into the 1950s; for people of my father's generation in Wales (he was born in 1912, and left school in 1926), Welsh was forbidden at school, so he would speak English at school and Welsh the rest of the time. It was because of the attitude that he encountered from monoglot Anglophones on moving to Swansea to start work that he refused to teach Welsh to my sister and myself- I find it rather sad that I find it possible to follow, and join in, a converstaion in French, but not in the language of my father. I am trying to acquire a bit more Welsh, by the expedient of watching 'Clwb Rygbi' on S4C (isn't satellite TV wonderful?)- the cancellation of the Llanelli- Swansea derby one Christmas produced the following gem. The interviewer asked (in Welsh) what a supporter would do now; in finest Llanelli 'Welsh' came the response 'Ddim clue, really'

#59 br2975

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 13:29

'Ddim clue, really'


It's a shame the greatest of Bardic sword bearers, "Ray Mynydd-Y-Garreg" isn't around to join in this debate ...........

Brian R
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#60 Baby Deltic

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 13:33

I do find it quite amusing when my dad's older brother goes to Wales. During the war he was evacuated to work on a farm in Wales, so he had to learn to speak fluent welsh. He has gone into shops where they have been speaking english and switched to welsh. Having been able to quietly listen in to and understand what has been said (not always very polite), some colourful rebuttals have been given to welsh shop keepers in their own tongue.

Edited by Baby Deltic, 27 March 2012 - 13:34 .

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#61 coachmann

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 14:23

Other languages are assisting the welsh language to keep it up to date...... Guess where tacsi, ambwylans and bws came from. As for paint daubing, I think the country would have more to concern itself with if those living between Scotland and Wales ever started to use pots of paint.... :paint:

Edited by coachmann, 27 March 2012 - 14:27 .

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#62 iak

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 14:34

I do find it quite amusing when my dad's older brother goes to Wales. During the war he was evacuated to work on a farm in Wales, so he had to learn to speak fluent welsh. He has gone into shops where they have been speaking english and switched to welsh. Having been able to quietly listen in to and understand what has been said (not always very polite), some colourful rebuttals have been given to welsh shop keepers in their own tongue.


My brother goes into shops and lets his bairns do the talking...
If the shopkeepers say anything to him he just smiles and says "Pardon/Excuse me..." In Gaelic...
Cue confusion all round................

Sad to think some cannae move on mind?
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#63 Bon Accord

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 14:44

Other languages are assisting the welsh language to keep it up to date...... Guess where tacsi, ambwylans and bws came from. As for paint daubing, I think the country would have more to concern itself with if those living between Scotland and Wales ever started to use pots of paint.... :paint:


Crikey, don't tell me there's roving bands of Manx graffiti artists on the loose?
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#64 iak

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 14:46

Were is Capt Kernow??? :triniti:

#65 steve fay

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 15:46

Well by reading my signiture its obvious where I hail from and im extremley proud of that. I think we should remember that these plonkas vandalised a local source of employment and as a tourist attraction brings in vital money to the local economy.
Ive been to north Wales a few times and been in pubs where they where talking Welsh, Whether they heard my South Wales accent or not I dont know just think they re lucky in that they managed to hold onto the language where as I only started learning welsh in comprehensive school.
Luckily my kids will get it as soon as they start pre school.
I pass graffiti on a regular basis but if I repeated it here then i would be promptly banned. I was on a train not to long ago and there where a group of teens slagging the welsh off ironically they where off to Cardiff for a night out, I swung my welsh scarf around my neck to let them know where i was from. I told them that if they had been saying that about another minority & that if I called the police they would have been arrested at the next station.
There are prejudices every where, Ive been on the end of them my self in England but you just shrug them off.
If Wales was an indepenent country, We would still want English, Irish, Scots and who ever else to visit our country as it every Welsh persons best asset.
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#66 John_Hughes

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 16:03

Other languages are assisting the welsh language to keep it up to date...... Guess where tacsi, ambwylans and bws came from. As for paint daubing, I think the country would have more to concern itself with if those living between Scotland and Wales ever started to use pots of paint.... :paint:

Well, tacsi is from the Greek word for 'charge' or 'cost', ambiwlans (the correct spelling!) is from a Latin word meaning to walk (oddly enough) and bws is from Latin omnibus, meaning something like 'available to all'.

So yes indeed, other languages are indeed helping to keep every language up to date.

Edited by John_Hughes, 27 March 2012 - 16:05 .

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#67 Debs.

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 16:04

........has it ever been otherwise? :laugh:


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#68 jonny777

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 16:13

I have lived and worked in Wales for many years in the past, and I found that most Welsh people were very pleasant. There were a few who seemed to resent my presence and doing the job that a Welshman should be doing, but I just ignored them.

In the media profession there was always a big thing made of correct pronunciation of Pwllheli and Llanelli, etc. and I tried my best but probably failed miserably, but then some English place names seem to be the cause of much hilarity when pronounced by visitors from elsewhere.

My only gripe was that a little too much emphasis was put on the Welsh language as an indication of identity. The relative failure of this policy was evident at the opening ceremony for the Rugby World Cup in 1999 at the Millennium Stadium. I think it was Gerald Davies who declared the tournament open in Welsh, then paused - silence. He then repeated his short speech in English and declared the tournament open again, in that language, and received a massive cheer from the 75000 crowd.

#69 Removed a/c_dilbert

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 16:45

My wife is an English teacher - she's not even British, but a part of her remit is also to educate British culture (and not the binge type). When we were first married she asked me how do you translate 'hwyl' into English? The only reply I had was 'Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau'... dilbert

#70 Long Line

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 16:56

What do you expect, It bankrupted two kings building them all those lovely castles.. and they still haven't said thank you...

#71 Bernard Lamb

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 18:15

As a first-language Welshman whose roots on my father's side are a mixture of English and Huguenot,


When SWMBO first arrived in England we visited some colleagues who lived in Bradford. She had worked with them previously in Germany. They were in the wollen trade and were of Huguenot origin. The problem with Bradford I was informed was that there were too many immigrants.
Bernard

#72 br2975

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 18:53

On the subject of graffiti - don't let it bother you, even when it gets personal !
.
And it was posted by a 'welshman' - about a fellow countryman !

Brian R

PS
I apologise if some of a tender disposition find this offensive.
Unfortunately the culprit didn't apologise to me - but I could tell I'd hit home !

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Edited by br2975, 27 March 2012 - 19:12 .

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#73 coachmann

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 19:06

Perhaps he means Scott Walker is impersinating a policeman... :P

Edited by coachmann, 27 March 2012 - 19:08 .


#74 Removed a/c_Max Stafford

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 19:20

PC Rolly was clearly doing his job well if he received this accolade. Proper badge of honour that! :sarcastichand:

Dave.

#75 Baby Deltic

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 19:31

PC Rolly was clearly doing his job well if he received this accolade. Proper badge of honour that! :sarcastichand:

Dave.


The bloke who did it probably had ACAB tattoo'd on his arm aswell.






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