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LNER A6





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#1 mikemeg

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 15:25

So, here I go again (reasonable title for a song, methinks - perhaps the Hollies!) with another test build of one of Arthur Kimber's etched kits. Apologies to Arthur and anyone eagerly awaiting the beginning of this thread (as if?) but some medical treatment intervened, hence the late start.

First thing to do is to show a photo of the chosen prototype within the A6 class. This will be 69798, an A6 which remained saturated and largely unmodified from its NER rebuilt state, throughout its life. The following three photographs show the three sheets of etched components. Now to start cutting out the components and beginning the assembly.

Cheers

Mike

Attached Thumbnails

  • A6-3 02.jpg
  • P7020001.JPG
  • P7020002.JPG
  • P7020003.JPG

Edited by mikemeg, 04 April 2012 - 13:08 .

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#2 GC Jack

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 16:01

Look forward to following the progress.

Jack

Edited by GC Jack, 31 March 2012 - 16:01 .


#3 ArthurK

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 16:08

Just an apology to Mike for a number of small errors on these test etches. I hope that they will not cause him too many problems.

ArthurK
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#4 Removed a/c_Tom F

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 16:42

I'll be watching this one Mike...an A6 would be useful for working in from Harrogate to York! :)

#5 mikemeg

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 12:00

Tom F,

Yes, Starbeck had A6's until mid 1951, so there's a fair chance that they would have worked into York in the early years of British Railways, up to their transfer in 1951.

So, let's get started. The first thing, I intend to build, is the locomotive body, having already just built a chassis for an A6. Following Arthur's suggested sequence of construction the first thing to do is to part off and bend up the footplate. On this kit, the footplate is in two parts, with a top section on which the various slots and holes for handrails, lamp irons, etc. are etched and a lower section which contains the buffer beams and side valences. This section needs to be folded prior to its assembly to the upper section and here I have departed from Arthur's sequence in that I have opted to do the most difficult folding operation first - the two valences - as these involve folding over six inches of metal, on each side, to form the valences.

For this I normally sit the section on a flat block of wood and then locate a steel ruler against the fold line of the section to be folded. This has the advantage that it prevents the actual folding operation from bending or deforming the rest of the footplate, provided that the steel ruler is held down very firmly. The part to be folded is then 'teased' into the fold, gradually, using the edge of another steel rule. It is important not to try and achieve the full 90 degree fold in a single pass, as this will stretch and deform the folded part, so a little at a time is my chosen method.

Once the folded part - in this case the valence - is angled, then the footplate can be laid flat on the rubber cutting board, again with the steel ruler pressed down firmly and seated into the fold line, and the folded part can then be teased into a 90 degree fold using athe edge of another steel ruler. The key thing, when doing this, is to maintain the central part of the footplate flat to prevent any distortion. The machined edge of the steel ruler should ensure that the folded part is at 90 degrees to the footplate.

As ever, photographs probably illustrate this far better than words can. So now we have the footplate with the two valences folded down, which does give this part much greater rigidity.

Cheers

Mike

Attached Thumbnails

  • Folding the footplate - 1.JPG
  • Folding the footplate - 2.JPG

Edited by mikemeg, 02 April 2012 - 12:06 .

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#6 mikemeg

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 12:34

The folding up on the lower footplate can now be completed by bending up the two buffer beams. One of these does contain the etched lamp irons so care must be taken not to distort these during the folding operations. We now have a completely folded and formed lower footplate. Though I'm no authority on model locomotive building, I should just emphasise how important these folding operations are in ensuring the accuracy and squareness of the build; any errors on this part will be very difficult to rectify later in the build.

So the cardinal rules (at least those which I seem to have elicited) for these folding operations are :-

- Support the unfolded part on a flat base using a flat support - a steel ruler in my case.

- Locate the support (the steel ruler) against the etched folding line, to ensure that the fold actually does fold where it is intended to.

- Try and fold the entire length of what is to be folded to avoid stretching the metal. Again I use another steel rule as the bending 'lever'.

- Gradually ease the part to be folded, rather than try and achieve the 90 degree fold in one pass.

This works for me so is, perhaps, worth passing on.

Cheers

Mike

Attached Thumbnails

  • Folding the footplate - 3.JPG

Edited by mikemeg, 02 April 2012 - 12:35 .

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#7 Removed a/c_Tom F

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 12:39

Oh good, glad I can have one :D That's what I like about early years of BR, you could literally see a transition with some the old North Eastern locos on their way out.

Very much going to enjoy following this one.

Btw Mike I wouldn't normally ask but I sent you a PM last week. Did it come through or is it lost in the system :P

Oh and feel free to post another trip to Leeman Road whenever you're ready :)

Any plans to build a Q5 from Arthurs etches or have you done one already ?

Edited by Tom F, 02 April 2012 - 12:47 .


#8 mikemeg

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 12:54

Oh good, glad I can have one :D That's what I like about early years of BR, you could literally see a transition with some the old North Eastern locos on their way out.

Very much going to enjoy following this one.

Btw Mike I wouldn't normally ask but I sent you a PM last week. Did it come through or is it lost in the system :P

Oh and feel free to post another trip to Leeman Road whenever you're ready :)

Any plans to build a Q5 from Arthurs etches or have you done one already ?


Tom F,

I've been away from the PC for a couple of weeks so haven't had chance to read e-mails until yesterday. Yes, I have your PM's and will reply later today; many thanks for them.

And yes, I have built one of the first of Arthur's Q5/2 (the Q5's reboilered with the ex Hull and Barnsley boiler) kits, for which there is a thread on this section of the site, though my 'pride and joy' is still the LNER T1 which was my first attempt at loco building for thirty five years and which was scratch built.

You might also take a look in the Signalling and Infrastructure section, where there are threads covering some fairly large signal models both for my Hessle Haven layout and for Scarborough, all based on ex-NER prototypes.

Cheers

Mike

Attached Thumbnails

  • Winter Shadows.JPG

Edited by mikemeg, 02 April 2012 - 13:03 .

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#9 Removed a/c_Tom F

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 19:16

Tom F,

I've been away from the PC for a couple of weeks so haven't had chance to read e-mails until yesterday. Yes, I have your PM's and will reply later today; many thanks for them.

And yes, I have built one of the first of Arthur's Q5/2 (the Q5's reboilered with the ex Hull and Barnsley boiler) kits, for which there is a thread on this section of the site, though my 'pride and joy' is still the LNER T1 which was my first attempt at loco building for thirty five years and which was scratch built.

You might also take a look in the Signalling and Infrastructure section, where there are threads covering some fairly large signal models both for my Hessle Haven layout and for Scarborough, all based on ex-NER prototypes.

Cheers

Mike


Not to worry Mike, I just know the PM system has lost the odd PM of mine before, so just wanted to check they hadn't gone AWOL. :)
I was replying on my phone earlier but now I'm back on the lap top, I'll go have a look in signalling and infrastructure. Very nice looking A8 too! :)

Cheers

Tom

#10 jwealleans

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 20:56

Very nice looking A8 too!


Count the wheels, mate.....
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#11 mikemeg

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 18:15

Count the wheels, mate.....


Yes, indeed, this NER tank (photo above) has eight driving wheels so must be a T1.

Anyway, back to the A6. The upper mainframes have had to be modified due to a small anamoly in the tab spacing - that's what these test builds are all about, after all. Also, I've drilled out the half etched bolt marks and fitted tiny pieces of .5 mm wire to represent the bolts on these upper frames. Yes I know that this is a pfaff (how is that word spelt) but wherever possible I try and represent bolts in this way, rather than punched out as large rivets. So now to assemble the valve cover and the smokebox and then use those to position and solder the upper frames.

While I'm in the 'tank engine' department, and to help me with seeing how one of Arthur's more mature kits is assembled, I thought I would also build the J73; at least the body of the J73. This should also help in identifying any queries in the A6 kit as many of the design approaches are common across all of Arthur's kits. As an aside, I would recommend the J73 kit to anyone who wants an NER or LNER shunting locomotive larger than the J71 or J72. This kit is also probably the easiest to build (so far) of Arthur's kits and, like all of them, goes together very well.

So now I shall have to work twice as hard to maintain the build schedule!

Cheers

Mike

Attached Thumbnails

  • Upper Frames Modified.JPG
  • A Brace of Tank Engines.JPG


#12 Removed a/c_Tom F

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 18:21

count the wheels, mate.....


Sorry I wasn't looking closely....apologies. Think before I open my mouth comes to mind....was always on my school reports!

Edited by Tom F, 03 April 2012 - 18:28 .


#13 micklner

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 18:40

Has Arthur indicated what kind of radius curves the A6 and the J73 ( while I am asking) will go around in OO ?

There is current thread elsewhere on the proposed kit of the A8. I made enquiries re a 52F Model chassis and is struggling at anything less than 36 inches in OO and 40 + in P4.

#14 jwealleans

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 20:08

If n-one else has answered, Mick, I'll get my J73 out and try it on the test track over the weekend. I have a second radius (? 24") setrack curve on there. It certainly goes round the 36" curves on Corfe and Pilmoor easily.

Edited by jwealleans, 03 April 2012 - 20:08 .

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#15 mikemeg

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 20:17

Has Arthur indicated what kind of radius curves the A6 and the J73 ( while I am asking) will go around in OO ?

There is current thread elsewhere on the proposed kit of the A8. I made enquiries re a 52F Model chassis and is struggling at anything less than 36 inches in OO and 40 + in P4.


Mick,

I'm afraid that I don't know what radius the A6 or J73 will go around - perhaps Arthur can advise.

The J73 is a 'standard' six coupled locomotive, so I would imagine that with frames set at the 'OO' normal spacing and with a little play on the centre driving wheels, then the loco should be capable of traversing fairly tight curves (perhaps 2' 0" at a guess).

The A6 is again six coupled, with a leading bogie and a trailing radial axle. The front of the mainframes do have cut-outs so the bogie can swing under the frames; could be that for 'OO' the mainframe cut-outs might need slightly enlarging to cater for deeper flanges. I still have to look at the design of the trailing radial axle, though if this pivots about a central axis, then it should act much as a two wheel bogie.

I'm building these to P4 (as with all my locos) standards with a minimum radius of 4' 6" so haven't yet had a problem with clearances.

On the D20 chassis, where there were no mainframe cut-outs for the bogie wheels and where the bogie wheels are very close to the running plate, the frame spacing is narrowed at the front to allow a little more sideplay. However, with this design it would be quite difficult to build this chassis for very tight curves unless mainfram cut-outs were used. I think Arthur has discussed the 'OO' options on this chassis, on the D20 Chassis thread.

Cheers

Mike

#16 micklner

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 21:25

thanks for the info

#17 ArthurK

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 22:18

My first three locos, J24,J73 and J77 if built in OO should have no problems getting around "reasonable" curves. By that I mean curves of a little under 30", perhaps as low as 24". The frames are set to 12.5mm external so providing the bearings are not of the thick flange type (even those can be filed back) there should be a side play of at least a millimetre available. The Q5 being an 0-8-0 with outside cylinders is rather different but I have had no problems getting OO models around 30". My policy here is to have zero play on the leading axle to avoid problems with crosshead clearance, also little or none on the third axle (the one with the gearbox) then as much as I can get on the second and fourth axles. That works for me.

In P4 tne problems are more stringent but trhe principles are similar. I have no problems in getting them around minimum radii approaching 36" certainly less than 40". The Chiver's D20 takes these radii in its stride with its tapered front frames (built as designed).

As Mike points out the A6 has frame cutouts that enable the bogie wheels to pass under the frames. The driving wheelbase is smaller the a conventional 0-6-0 and the frames at the rear are narrowed by 1mm either side. I am not antcipating any problems there. In addition I have built in spring centering system on the trailing truck (not radial) which should help. We will find out from mike whether that works!

ArthurK

Edited by ArthurK, 03 April 2012 - 22:26 .

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#18 mikemeg

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:39

So, though this thread is really around the test build of the A6 trial etches, I did fold up and assemble the first tank side on the J73; this to acquaint myself with Arthur's methods on tank locos and because there is a full set of instructions for the J73, much of which might/will apply to the A6. One departure from the instructions (well there had to be at least one) was that I formed up and soldered the cab cut-out beading before any folding of the cab and tank sides was done. This I found to be relatively easy, provided that the beading is formed before it is soldered.

The folded and soldered tank side has been located in the slots on the footplate and the half tags folded under the footplate, though this is not yet soldered. The way that these kits locate - with slots and tabs - and the use of half tags to lock components into place, prior to soldering, is a real aid to achieveing squareness and to the joins between tanks, cab and footplate being really flush.

You might have gathered, by now, that I am a fan of Arthur's kits and the more I see of them, the more of a fan I become.

Now to do the second side on the J73 and then the same things on the much larger A6.

I'm afraid my new found adherence to organisation and order now also extends to maintaining the models as clean as possible during building; this by trying to keep solder to where solder oughta be. Saves having to spend ages cleaning up the model later!

Cheers

Mike

Attached Thumbnails

  • J73 Side Tank Fit.JPG
  • Both Sides Assembled.JPG

Edited by mikemeg, 04 April 2012 - 09:23 .

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#19 ArthurK

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 14:47

Mike

You are right, it is often easier to add details in the 'flat' and that applies to the cab beading. Might I also remind you to add the drivers reverse lever before soldering the tanks to the footplate though I suggest you add the cab platforms before that.

Also it is easier to detail the bunker front and cab rear as sub-component before adding that.

ArthurK

Edited by ArthurK, 04 April 2012 - 15:40 .


#20 mikemeg

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 14:30

So after the Easter break, time to get back to the A6 and the J73. I had decided to go as far as assembling the tank sides, cab and bunker, on the J73, before I launched into the same set of activites on the A6. Just the cab rear and bunker to do to arrive at that point, whereupon I'll repeat these operations on the A6.

Prior to positioning the tank sides on the footplate, though they are not yet soldered, I filled the side tanks with lead shot down to the level of the tops of the wheels. This only adds about 2 ounces each side, but in a relatively small loco, such as this, then every little bit of extra weight helps. Now just the cab rear, bunker front and back to do.

Cheers

Mike

Attached Thumbnails

  • Building the Cab & Bunker.JPG

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#21 jwealleans

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 16:11

Sensible move, Mike. I left mine until it was built and running which makes it a lot more awkward to add weight.

#22 mikemeg

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 16:49

So this is now the point at which I'll move to the A6, having negotiated the J73 reasonably successfully up to here. I've finished the cab, both inside and out (apart from some clear perspex for the windows) and have added the bunker rear and the plated up coal rails. Now let's see how the A6 fares when we try to take it to the same stage?

Cheers

Mike

Attached Thumbnails

  • Now for the Bigger One.JPG

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#23 7mm Mick

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 19:58

Hi Mike,

Nice to see you back posting with a new topic, which J73 are you building? I'm guessing either 68361 or 68363 as you've got three coal rails on the bunker?As always inspiring stuff your modelling, I really do need to get on with my J73 scratch build. Watching queitly from the wings,

ATB Mick

#24 mikemeg

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 21:11

Hi Mike,

Nice to see you back posting with a new topic, which J73 are you building? I'm guessing either 68361 or 68363 as you've got three coal rails on the bunker?As always inspiring stuff your modelling, I really do need to get on with my J73 scratch build. Watching queitly from the wings,

ATB Mick


Thanks for that, Mick. Yes, as you surmise it's to be 68363, which was a Hull Alexandra Dock locomotive in 1950. Interesting that the photo clearly shows (or more particularly doesn't!) the absence of guard irons over the rear cab windows.

I shall similarly watch your 7mm model, assuming that you post details on here as you construct it.

Cheers

Mike

Attached Thumbnails

  • J73 68363 Dairycoates.jpg

Edited by mikemeg, 10 April 2012 - 21:38 .


#25 mikemeg

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:40

"You reckon he can do this?"

"Whassat then?"

"You know, build two different locomotives at the same time."

"Dunno mate; takes me all me time to finish one."

"Ah well, guess we'll see. I'll bet when the A6 starts to get difficult, he'll revert to the J73, cos' that's easier."

"We'll see."

Tell you what, it is very difficult to do this; there is indeed the temptation to just go and finish the easier of them - in this case the J73 - a temptation I am determined to resist (who was it who said that he could resist almost anything except temptation?). So both sides of the A6 have been cut out and the tabs dressed off. Each of these sides is nearly 8" long before they are folded, so they do need some care in handling.

I followed Arthur's recommendations (almost), weakening the fold above the cab opening to prevent distortion around the cab cut-out when folding. I also formed and soldered the cab cut-out beading in before folding up the tank sides, though after I had folded the rear of the cab door cut-out and the cab roof support.

I have decided to leave the upper front frames until the smokebox and valve cover are completed and fitted. This should allow for a completely flush fitting of these frames against the smokebox and valve cover sides.

In his instructions to me, Arthur said in the section covering the footplate assembly :-

"I can never resist folding up side tank and doing a test fit at this stage." Don't really know what he means; but the first of the side tank assemblies fits beautifully at the trial fit stage! Now to add some weight into those side tanks.

Cheers

Mike

Attached Thumbnails

  • Tank Fit Check.JPG

Edited by mikemeg, 11 April 2012 - 08:44 .

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