LNERGE Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 There are engineering works planned at Hitchin this weekend that will call for an isolation of the overhead supply past the worksite. East Coast class 91's will be passing through the isolated section with their pantograph down. Here is a short movie of last time this method was used.. In addition all up trains will not call at Hitchin and will pass through, bang road, up direction on the down fast. Trains will set back from the up fast at Biggleswade onto the down fast and run bang road to Stevenage. It is rather odd seeing the four aspect signals in this section start at green and work their way back to red as the train approaches.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 fingers crossed no one pulls the passcomm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 Or slips a link that restores a signal to danger. That brings the whole program to a halt too.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Do they have a Thunderbird hanging around just in case? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I don't think I know the term "bang road". Sounds ominous ... Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2012 Crikey - at last we are catching up the mainland in our methods. When I suggested to some Railtrack and mech engineering sorts back in the late 1990s that they should look at running through neutral sections with pans lowered they looked at me as if I'd just arrived from another planet - when I told them that I'd been in the cab of a TGV on an LGV doing exactly that at speeds well in excess of 125 mph I thought they were going to faint. It has been commonplace at neutral sections and some electrification system changeover points (where the change takes place at speed on mainland rail systems for a good many years and goes on hundreds of times every day - and it is great fun to watch from the lineside especially where a train is coming off, say, Belgian ohle and going onto SNCF 25kv ohle because -provided you can see all the operation - you not only see it running with pans down but you watch it lower one and then raise the other after it leaves the neutral section. And for Chris's info wrong line working is usually referred to as 'bang road working' and the term has been around for a long time 'inside the fence' - looks like it's now escaped (hope it doesn't appear in a horrified 'Daily Wail' before the week's out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 I am led to believe there will be Thunderbirds on standby at Biggleswade and Welwyn. The episode with a signal being replaced involved a Grand Central 125 assisting a 91 in rear to get it back to the juice. 365's have to stop to rejuice/reboot. 317's and 321's can do it on the move. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted April 5, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2012 Crikey - at last we are catching up the mainland in our methods. When I suggested to some Railtrack and mech engineering sorts back in the late 1990s that they should look at running through neutral sections with pans lowered they looked at me as if I'd just arrived from another planet - when I told them that I'd been in the cab of a TGV on an LGV doing exactly that at speeds well in excess of 125 mph I thought they were going to faint. It has been commonplace at neutral sections and some electrification system changeover points (where the change takes place at speed on mainland rail systems for a good many years and goes on hundreds of times every day - and it is great fun to watch from the lineside especially where a train is coming off, say, Belgian ohle and going onto SNCF 25kv ohle because -provided you can see all the operation - you not only see it running with pans down but you watch it lower one and then raise the other after it leaves the neutral section. And for Chris's info wrong line working is usually referred to as 'bang road working' and the term has been around for a long time 'inside the fence' - looks like it's now escaped (hope it doesn't appear in a horrified 'Daily Wail' before the week's out. I well remember watching this in a form of shadow theatre while travelling from Cannes to Lille on a Eurostar set. As we approached Marseille in good sunlight I was able to see the shadow of the 25KV pan come down on the forward power car and then after a suitable interval the 1500v DC pan raised all while travelling at a fairly slow speed. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted April 5, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2012 And for Chris's info wrong line working is usually referred to as 'bang road working' and the term has been around for a long time 'inside the fence' - looks like it's now escaped (hope it doesn't appear in a horrified 'Daily Wail' before the week's out. I know of a certain signalman who was told off for using such a term in the box "You mean, proceeding along the down line in the up direction signalman?" "Yeah, bang road, like I said" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter749 Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I don't think I know the term "bang road". Sounds ominous ... Chris Each running line is usually just one direction "Bang Road" is a Railwayman's term for running the opposite direction to Normal but becasue you are doing it under special working instructions everything is ok. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 All went well with today's operation i am led to believe.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Not really. 2 separate FCC services got stuck in the dead section on Saturday afternoon, causing mega delay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I was on the 1745 south from HUN yesterday; after reversal on the US just south of Biggleswade we headed North again, into the DF platform Eventually we left southbound on the DF, but at a fairly sedate pace. I wasn't sure where we would lose power, and was, shall we say, a tad interested, as our speed was not too high. Turned out that the dead section started just north of Hitchin junction, where the gasworks site is, to just south of the station, around where the yard on the up side (the old locoshed) joins the main line. Not too far, and as we didn't accelerate beforehand, a good thing too. Our 365 came to a stand at the South end of the station area, where the pantograph was raised. As is normal with a 365, the train then had to be re-booted - twice - before moving again. The UF was regained just North of Stevenage station. Having done these before, it was unusual not to have an announcement from the driver about it; only announcement was about not stopping at Arlesey or Hitchin. The double reboot was not unusual either, having suffered many reboots with these units, multiple reboots are the name of the game! I do wonder if is because it was a 2x4-car formation, and the 2 computors get out of sync if rebooted together?. It made for an interesting journey, though 1hr 37 miles was a long time; I've done the same journey at peak in 40mins on a 365! Better than a bus replacement though. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 Not really. 2 separate FCC services got stuck in the dead section on Saturday afternoon, causing mega delay. But they didn't need to be rescued. The absence of trains was noted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Crikey - at last we are catching up the mainland in our methods.  When I suggested to some Railtrack and mech engineering sorts back in the late 1990s that they should look at running through neutral sections with pans lowered they looked at me as if I'd just arrived from another planet - when I told them that I'd been in the cab of a TGV on an LGV doing exactly that at speeds well in excess of 125 mph I thought they were going to faint. It has been commonplace at neutral sections and some electrification system changeover points (where the change takes place at speed on mainland rail systems for a good many years and goes on hundreds of times every day - and it is great fun to watch from the lineside especially where a train is coming off, say, Belgian ohle and going onto SNCF 25kv ohle because -provided you can see all the operation - you not only see it running with pans down but you watch it lower one and then raise the other after it leaves the neutral section. .And for Chris's info wrong line working is usually referred to as 'bang road working' and the term has been around for a long time 'inside the fence' - looks like it's now escaped   (hope it doesn't appear in a horrified 'Daily Wail' before the week's out. talking of nuetral sections i can remeber a 304 getting stuck in the gap at heaton norris in the early 80s when i was box lad there .the train had come out of heaton chappel station and was crossing from the up slow to up fast but didnt have enough momentum to roll through the gap ! caused a lot of delay whilst it was rescued ! the neutral section was subsequently moved to prevent this happening Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 Last weekends coasting was, i think it's fair to say, an unmitigated disaster despite being downhill. It took four and a half hours to rescue the 365. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Funny how the rail industry is getting much better at some things... Better than a bus replacement though. There is no more miserable experience in life than turning up at your local station to find that a rail replacement bus "service" is in operation. I use the quotation marks because this is what the TOCs call it, but it isn't one. The buses carry no meaningful destination blind, the drivers don't know where they're going (I almost had to direct one into York after his Sat-Nav took him off down a country lane), the drivers are frequently rude, or at best have no customer service skills whatsoever, and the hired-in ground staff (also frequently rude) whose sole purpose is to direct passengers to the correct bus, don't know where the buses are going. So, (turning my rant around into something positive) it's refreshing to hear that Single Line Working is being used where possible! ...while other things still leave a lot to be desired: It took four and a half hours to rescue the 365. It always baffles me how long passengers are expected to sit on stranded trains, often without drinking water or even basic ventilation, and how the rail industry thinks this is acceptable. During Single Line Working that class 67 ought to have been standing by at a moment's notice and there should be a fast-track process to get it quicly and safely into the same section as the stranded train. We're running a 21st-century railway with Victorian rules and regulations. Yet more time could be saved if all rail vehicles had a standard coupling, but that's another story... don't get me started... Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 During Single Line Working that class 67 ought to have been standing by at a moment's notice and there should be a fast-track process to get it quicly and safely into the same section as the stranded train. It might not be as simple as that - what if there are multiple trains on the single line with incompatible couplings? Remember the single line may be broken down in to different sections itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 See my comment about standardised couplings James! However, back in the real world, you're absolutely right: it's not as simple as I made out. I was thinking of absolute block working with a pilotman where, if I'm not mistaken, you wouldn't normally have more than one train on the single line, no matter how long. I appreciate things have moved on a bit since manual signalling! Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I think under pilotman working trains were allowed to follow each other obeying the signals in the normal direction of travel for that line, as long as each was instructed by the pilotman who would travel on the last one. I even think at one time they could do this in either direction, with those going bang road obeying the signals for the other track! That was in the Kitchenside and Williams book but it sounds pretty dodgy to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Reg 9 might help - http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book/Rule%20Book%20Modules/TS%20-%20Train%20Signalling/GERT8000-TS2%20Iss%202.pdf And this may be of interest too - http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book/Rule%20Book%20Modules/P%20-%20Working%20by%20Pilotman/GERT8000-P1%20Iss%203.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 The 67 arrived on site within 25 minutes of the failure being reported. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven156 Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 It might not be as simple as that - what if there are multiple trains on the single line with incompatible couplings? Remember the single line may be broken down in to different sections itself. Makes you think about unit and train compatibility. Up here in Scotland the trusty older electric fleet of 314's, 318's and 320's can work in multiple due to them being specified by BR and with Buckeye couplers and vagulely similar but importantly compatible electrical systems. however 314's normally only operate in multiple with other 314s. It only came into being recently that class 318's and 320's worked in multiple in regular passenger service. Class 334's can normally only operate in multiple with 334s, but in dire emergency because they are buckeye equipped they can be tied up to a 314, 318 and 320 but only in the most emergency of situation and at very very low speeds- i.e. clearance of line due to failure ONLY as there's no electrical compatibility and no through braking capability. Then we have the superb brand new class 380 which of course can only operate with class 380's. Each generation can only work with units of its own generation. But then on the other hand we have class 156's, 158's, and 170's that will happily couple together and work in multiple- three different generations and types of unit that will happily work together and it happens/happened nationwide! Its a constant daily occurance here in Scotland that class 158's and 170's work in multiple! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Story I was told about the 365 failures during coasting (apperently been more than just this 1) was that the AWS has to be isolated to coast, and this was done, but as soon as it entered the dead section the AWS kicked in and the train was brought to a stand. Also this last one had problems in coupling up; the emergency adaptor coupling was "rusty" ( but how does a bit of towrope get rusty? ) and air pressure could not be maintained to release the brakes. Don't shoot the messenger - that's just what I was told! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 We're at it again this weekend, coasting uphill this time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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