RMweb Premium Steven B Posted August 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 31, 2012 Your mystery object is one of the cages used to wind coal tubs up and down the mine shaft - a tripple decker one in this case. Your first photo shows the gates on the top two levels. The bottom ones have probably been removed to stop people getting trapped. The second photo shows the six eye-brackets on the top where it would be attached to the main lift cable. Happy modelling. Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Your mystery object is one of the cages used to wind coal tubs up and down the mine shaft - a tripple decker one in this case. Your first photo shows the gates on the top two levels. The bottom ones have probably been removed to stop people getting trapped. The second photo shows the six eye-brackets on the top where it would be attached to the main lift cable. Happy modelling. Steven B. That makes a lot of sense. Somewhere I've a pic I took of the one at Prince of Wales Colliery- but I can't recall ever having seen a cage in the open air to compare it with...... To answer Simon, I used to travel from Durham (where my then girl friend lived) back to Hartlepool (where I lived at the time) and generally used to try to avoid the United bus which went all round Peterlee (one came through Easington I seem to remember) in favour of the Trimdon if possible as the fastest or the Gillett Brothers if I'd missed the TMS. Similarly if travelling between Hartlepool and Newcastle I'd try and avoid the extra half-hour of going round the coast on the 40 and get the more direct bus via Houghton-le-Spring, always assuming I'd arrived at the wrong time (as usual) to catch a train. I'm back at home now- it was a day trip. I'll have another go when the weather improves but I think I've enough information to get the general plan finalised, or at least as far as getting the baseboards made and the roundy-roundy installed.. I didn't get to see the viaduct but looking at it on Google Earth the arches seem to have been strengthened and I'm not entirely sure it is worth all the extra baseboard construction problems to incorporate it. I never found the steps to the foot crossing over the railway, and can't find any trace when following the footpath along to the East of the railway, though I did find some ironwork behind the railway fence that had been burned off at ground level- it never occurred to me to photograph it. I'll remember next visit.... The A- streets. I assume they are Ashton Street, Abbott Street etc, which would make the pithead off to the right of these houses- the name on the end wall says Office street so I assume the ones going up the hill are Charles Street and Castle Street. All the very best Les Edited August 31, 2012 by Les1952 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Two more pics. Not one of the better pics but thuis is looking across the colliery site towards what the map gives as Tower Street with no houses left, and Abbot Street behind it. The pics I took are a bit variable- there was a fair bit of moisture in the air. A better one looking the other way- this is looking towards the car park from Tower Street, so I suspect the shaft would be the fenced off area in the middle distance. I've got some of the South end of the cutting where it runs onto embankment, and of the underbridge to sort out next. All the very best Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 (edited) The Underbridge The two overbridges I looked at appear to have been raised at some stage as they are flat at the top. This was done on the ECML around Darlington in the ffifties/sixties, so I assume these would have been done in the same period. Looking at the underbridge from the seaward side (looking West) there is a variety of brick (repairs?) but apart from being shallow it is quite a standard arch. At least it gives me a brickwork style if I end up with a tunnel mouth. Standing in the middle of the river running down the footpath a view of the underbridge from the landward side (looking East). Looking at how different the two sides are I wonder if the landward parapet was demolished by a derailment at some time? I've got enough to go on now to finalise what I'm doing ready for getting the baseboards bought and cut over the next couple of weeks. All the best Les Edited September 2, 2012 by Les1952 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Baseboards specified No new pics this time. having done a little testing the width of the baseboards is now fixed as 2'9". This will allow a symmetrical fiddle yard with 5 roads (10 trains each way). I've ordered a box of Code 80 for the fiddle yard and got 6 lengths of code 55 for the front of the roundy-roundy and the correct Setrack (R2 and R3) curves for the ends from Wendy in Kirkby-in-Ashfield. Discussion with Trevor has also now finalised the baseboard design so tomorrow I'm off to get the timber cut Boards will be made of 4mm ply with strengtheners and corner blocks of 9mm ply- the aim is to make it as light and strong as possible. Hopefully the two boards face-to-face won't be that much hevier than Furtwangen Ost's one board. Sides will be 4 inches deep to allow for a pair of Dapol signals on the roundy-roundy bit. Basically the main board will be two flat tables with a cut-out to allow me to model part of the slope to the sea and the underbridge will be included. The colliery level will be a separate flat (but not level) table installed above it after the roundy-roundy is laid- at that point the colliery railway design will be finalised. The backscene will be added last. I've mislaid Trevor's diagram of the baseboard frame, but if it turns up I'll scan it and post it. Movement at last! Les 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) As promised, diagrams. First one shows the side of the base- 4" deep 3.6mm ply (that's what I like, good old fashioned mongrel units..... Sorry it isn't straight- put in scanner wonky and software only has 90 degree changes of angle. The shaded areas are those strengthened by use of 9mm ply as a sandwich filler. So the side is two pieces of 3.6mm ply, 9mm apart, with the filler intermittently placed along it (or so that's how I read it) Trevor using his industrial hot glue gun toy again. Plan of the framing is this- the sandwich at the end might only be a single 9mm ply, but I'm not sure. It will have a split hinge on one side and a gate latch on the other to fasten it, with aligning dowels to make sure it lines up properly- one board resting on a ledge protruding from the other. Top of this will be flat 3.6mm ply except for a cut-out for the underbridge and its approaches. Before I take the ply to Trevor's I've got to lay out the line of the track along the front to work out exactly where the drop for the bridge will be, and get approximate locations for the fiddleyard entry points so the cross-pieces can have cutouts to clear any point motors. The ply for the baseboards is now standing on end in the workshop. Plenty to do... All the very best Les Edited September 14, 2012 by Les1952 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 (edited) Fiddle Yard Points Ready It is some time ago but I was talking about the trailing points to be used on the fiddle yard exit. Mr Simon has now done the exit points for Hawthorn Dene colliery and for Rise Park (the Newark mob's replacement for Farndon Road). This shows a right and a left, together with an unmodified point for comparison. The blades are removed, cut short and a piece of white card glued below the point. The shortened blades are then araldited back into place, arranged so that all manner of wheels run through without derailing. The blade is then connected permanently to the adjacent stock rail by soldering a small wire loop into place and the point tested again to see that wheels still run through it. Insulfrog points are necessary to avoid having to switch the frog. However very few, if any, locos with short wheelbases will use the roundy-roundy part of the layout. We did have one problem- the sixteen new points I bought from Wendy in Kirkby in Ashfield proved unsuitable. Peco have changed the design (very unsporting of them after all these years). The blade now pivots differently in the middle and the new ones aren't suitable for conversion. The pic shows an old type (upper) with a new type below it. As a result instead of buying two batches of new points I've had to scour eBay, Grantham Railshow and the N-gauge show in Leamington to get eight lefts and eight rights in medium-radius insulfrog code 80 points. Such is life... Les Edited September 15, 2012 by Les1952 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 By the way The arrangement I have with Trevor is that he builds my baseboards and I wire up his layouts. Simple, really..... Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrSimon Posted September 15, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 15, 2012 The white label is only stuck to the bottom to stop the araldite making a mess of my mat... it can probably be picked off now, its not an integral part of the design. And the blades are shortenned by 14mm as recommended by Richard Dees Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Trial of track geometry Having moved Furtawngen Ost back into the rear corner of the worklshop and put it onto its stand again, I've been able to set the two boards of HDC out to try out the geometry of the fiddle yard and the ends. This one shows Gresby packed up on the left behind the plywood, and the two baseboards laid end-to-end for measuring. The left-hand end trial. Bringing the exit from the fiddle yard close to the front of the baseboard means I can point it inwards and get a good sweeping curve inwards to the underbridge, which I've decided to model. It also means that there will be room to turn the colliery line right back on itself to make a single through fiddle yard for it. This can of course be worked as two dead-end yards back-to-back (like Furtwangen Ost's tramway- trams enter from either end and return back the way they came). In this case wagons will probably go roundy-roundy while the locos come back in from the end they left by. Managing to turn the colliery round inside the main line means I don't need it raised above the main line by so much. Next job is to put the actual measurements onto a new track plan then talk nicely to Trevor about getting them cut. Gresby leaves for its new home in Edinburgh shortly so it is time to get on with baseboards.... All the very best Les 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 LEGS AND CO That brings back memories. I've been talking to Trevor about how the layout is going to be held up. There will be an A-frame trestle in the middle, with the legs secured by chain (as per the modifications to Furtwangen Ost) with a drop-down leg on the outer end of each board secured by a strut. All can be made of 2" by 1" timber- or 50mm X 25mm in new money. Height adjustment for uneven hall floors by shims rather than fancy screw thingies. Layout height- I'm thinking of about 4 feet from the floor for the main level, largely as the layout isn't going to be that deep. It also helps keep the backscene shallower. Still plenty to do- sixty-four feet of timber and a metre-and-a-half of chain to buy, to start with. Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 make that seventy-two feet of timber......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) Not a lot happening.. Trevor has been on holiday this week. Hopefully I'll get over there with the timber during the coming week. In the mean time I've been upgrading the 4-car class 101. I originally started this as a train for Farndon Road, largely because I had a 3-car class 101 and a spare centre trailer. The main surgery is to swap coach ends so the guards and luggage are in car two. Closer view of the swapped cars. The set has had new exhausts fitted to the end cars, and a dummy engine on the unpowered car at the far end of the set. I gave it a run out on Stamford East at Loughborough last weekend. It coped with the "interesting" trackwork running with power car leading and trailing. Next job is to dig out some brass buffers I got yonks ago from N-gauge Bob, and to blacken some tissue paper to make corridoor connections. The back end (in the pic) needs a headcode adding- I did the other one some time ago. Why not make a "New Farish" set? To do this you need TWO three-car sets at a cost of £250, then have to cut two cars up. Get it right and you have a 4-car and a power twin. Bog it up and one set is totally useless. Why a 4-car? In the period I'm modelling DMUs round the coast were either 4 or 8 car sets (with an occasional stray power twin from the Whitby area). I'll stick with the 4-car (and probably run my 3-car 108 as a power twin from time to time). All the best Les Edited October 6, 2012 by Les1952 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 That's a fun little swap round. The main problem I ran into when I did it in the '80s was that the one motor bogie was barely up to moving 4 cars, even when the early drag-o-max bogies were replaced with pin-point versions. The other problem was altering the brake's underframe to unpowered, but with the motor bogie bracket. Obviously the introduction of the powered chassis sorted both problems later. I was going to repaint mine in the white/blue strip refurb livery, but only ever completed one of the driving cars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 That's a fun little swap round. The main problem I ran into when I did it in the '80s was that the one motor bogie was barely up to moving 4 cars, even when the early drag-o-max bogies were replaced with pin-point versions. The other problem was altering the brake's underframe to unpowered, but with the motor bogie bracket. Obviously the introduction of the powered chassis sorted both problems later. I was going to repaint mine in the white/blue strip refurb livery, but only ever completed one of the driving cars. I did cheat and leave the power car as the end one- it meant I only had one underframe to do, but means the DMC is full of motor. It is the full Bo-Bo chassis, and doesn't have problems with the 4-coach set. One other thing to do is to find some shorter Rapidos in the scrap box to get the trailers a little closer together if possible. I'll put another pic up (probably some weeks away) when it is nearer complete, though it will be running on Stamford East again at Warley. At least on Hawthorn Dene it will always have the powered car leading. All the very best Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) More Legs That one sounds like a Pennine village. I took the timber to Trevor's yesterday, and after trying to do something about the bump in the middle of Stamford East ready for it to go to Warley- we've improved it a bit but the track is likely always to be a bit lumpy across the join- we got down to business with Trevor's bandsaw and cut the sides and timbers. The underbridge will be on the left hand board about a foot from the join. This gives room for the road under it to climb up to track level by the join and then continue upwards afterwards- makes joining the boards simpler. After talking things over I've taken datum down from 48 inches above the floor to 45. This is still higher than most layouts but a little more wheelchair friendly- it isn't a deep layout and I want a view upwards rather than just the usual one inwards over the rooftops. The colliery will be at a higher level than the railway, and with a mixture of embankments and cuttings going on there shouldn't be too much of the flat-topped railway effect (which I hope I also managed to avoid with Furtwangen Ost). First causalty was the trestle- the right-hand board will now have two legs under it and the left-hand one only. One less thing to forget when packing the car for a show. Plan and side elevation of the baseboard joint. The left hand board will sit on two ledges made of 9mm ply and be pushed forward and located with three alignment dowels. It will be held with either two split hinges (one front, one back) or a split hinge at the front and a spiral locator at the back. I have had to go to Screwfix for a pack of hinges and a pack of split hinges, but I've not lost out on the trestle chain as I'd forgotten to buy it..... Meanwhile work continues on stock. This Fairburn finished up at Darlington and was used on Darlington-Saltburn parcels and Darlington-Sunderland-Newcastle parcels work. Cruel enlargement shows I've managed to scratch it somehow below the number. Lettering and lining by Fox, done by me very slowly and carefully over a number of weeks. Loco is a bitza, bought as a Stanier 3MT 2-6-2T on eBay , stripped down and given a correct front end from a toyfair luckybag, and a chassis concocted from parts of the 3MT and 2 others in the scrap box. It runs nicely. Not bad with a right hand with Repetitive Strain Injury and a pair of hands that don't always do what the brain tells them to.... All the very best Les Edited October 9, 2012 by Les1952 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) OH CLANG! I've miscounted the points in the fiddle yard. The total number of points (16) is correct but the number of trailing and facing of each hand isn't. The diagram might help. There are 16 points in the yard, 8 for trains arriving and 8 for trains leaving. The bottom fan is a reflection of the top, so you need 4 lefts and 4 rights for arriving trains (which are thrown), and 4 left and 4 right for the exits (which are trailing and have been converted to no moving parts), right------ WRONG. The bottom fan is a ROTATION of the top one. All arriving trains are faced with a sequence left-right-right-right whether in the top fan or the bottom one. All departing trains have the sequence right-left-left-left regardless of which fan they are in. Number of points - total 16, thrown 2 left and 6 right, trailing 2 right and 6 left. Multiply this by two layouts starting simultaneously and we have 8 left and 8 right trailing, needing 4 and 12, and 8 left and 8 right working, needing 12 and 4. Being code 80 insulfrog they aren't useable elsewhere. Shortfall means that another 4 right-hand trailing points need sourcing, with 4 now spare, and 4 right-hand working points need exchanging for lefts as the new Peco points aren't suitable. Still awake? However... There is an alternate solution, fortunately. This is to flip the lower fan to the same way round as the upper one. Again the diagram will help. This now means that trains running clockwise round the layout enter their fiddleyard through an oppositely handed fan to those arriving travelling anticlockwise round the layout. Total cost two additional short Setrack straights for each layout to move the clockwise fan approach from the centre to the edge of the yard. So in three years' time if anyone notices that Hawthorn Dene Colliery or Rise Park have fiddleyards looking like the lower plan view, this is the reason.... Time for bed, said Zebedee..... Les Edited October 12, 2012 by Les1952 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) Baseboards arrived (for first time) The two boards have arrived for checking and for the trackplan to be drawn out full size. Once this is done they go back to Whatton for finishing off. The two boards side by side waiting to go into the workshop. Looking through the workshop door showing the amount of floor space the boards take up. On the right at the near end half of Gresby packed up (still) ready for its move North, and at the far end Furtwangen Ost being prepared for its two outings in the next three weeks. The cutout for the underbridge has been started- the shape of the edge on the front edge has to be drawn out before being cut with a jigsaw. The underside of the plain right-hand baseboard. The boards can stay stacked on edge when not being worked on for now. Plenty to do, more pics when I've actually done something. Les Edited October 18, 2012 by Les1952 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) Boards are back again The boards are now fitted with their legs and the upper level for the colliery is built- there is less room between it and track level than I'd planned so I'll have to think carefully about gradients of edges etc- it might be a little more clifflike in places than the real thing... With Furtwangen Ost in place there isn't all that much space in the workshop- so as FO isn't due out again for several months it has gone on end to allow more access to HDC. By putting it at an angle the full 10' by 2'9 fits in the workshop so I can use the door, get round the end, sit at my workbench AND reach both sides of the layout- in a space of 16' X 10. That's part of Gresby under the workbench on the right- Mr Simon still hasn't got the go-ahead for its new home move. Looking the other way showing FO on end. Top level being used to store bits while tracklaying takes place on the lower circuit (the main line) The front of the layout is get-attable. Shows the dip, and the steepness that will have to be put on the road upwards to reach the top level. More new stock- or what I've been up to- an LNER driving trailer for push-pull services- an Etched Pixels Ultima kit. Must get on. Hopefully things to report will now happen a bit more frequently. Les Edited November 8, 2012 by Les1952 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 First track now laid. The curve at the North End of the fiddle yard on the main line clockwise has now been laid, together with the final point of the exit fan (only four track pieces but it is a start). I've also got another four ventilators done on the push-pull brake roof (only four more of these to go) and have finished the underside between the bogies and applied a first coat of paint to it. Tomorrow I've got to pick up a box of Code 80 from Access Models for the fiddle yard, and look out for some OO gauge copperclad sleeper strip for use at the board edges. I'll hopefully get these at Spalding show on Sunday, together with 4 reels of wire for the electricals. And so to bed.. Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 A Day of Progress (in both directions) I've been looking at copperclad sleeper strip for the board joins, and something 5mm wide or bigger will be best. Packs of 10 are enough for this layout AND Rise Park, so I'll source a pack for that. I picked up the two packs of Code 80 track, and a replacement point for the one I couldn't find (I'd used it on Furtwangen Ost), together with rail joiners (12 packs for the two layouts). Todays jobs done are fiddleyard jobs. There is less end clearance on the colliery board than on the bridge board for the turn, so I've laid in the end first. 12" radius Strack for the outer and 10.5 inch for the inner. As already explained the fiddleyard has to be two fans of sidings running in the same direction rather than them both fanning out from the middle. Checking clearances at the tightest point- there is actually almost 3mm between coaches as they pass- I've used Mark 1s as they are the longest planned for the layout- I'll cross-check later with a Class 156 and a Class 153 in case Mr Simon gets big ideas Showing how the entry and exit open out from each other at each end. Mark 1s are a mixture of ancient Farish, new Farish and MTK. I also laid in the front point fan and curve at the other end- the front one goes in first as it then sets the boundaries for the one behind it- I felt it was easier to lose a road from the inside if I'd miscalculated. A temporary length of track has allowed me to confirm the length of the shortest siding- a 4-car DMU plus an eight-wagon mineral train or equivalent. An express plus an inspection saloon will also fit. Pannier still awaiting conversion to open cab saddletank. The backwards step When I marked out the edges of the upper level at the front I marked the lower edge rather than the upper, but have got the edges of the upper level made at the lines.... As a result there are too many cliff edges! Tomorrow the colliery board is going back to Trevors for the front edge of the upper level to be cut back to a new line further back. This will restore the planned gradient to the road, and allow space for the landsale yard to sit below the colliery level. This will effectively give the following levels - main line at datum, colliery at +1.5 inch, road under bridge at -1.5 inch and landsale yard at +0.5 inch. There may yet be more above the colliery level, but they will be minor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrSimon Posted November 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 10, 2012 Try with a pair of 9Fs - they have fat cylinders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Try with a pair of 9Fs - they have fat cylinders Should be OK, the throw of one coach outwards against the overhang of another is critical- but I'll try an A3 on the inner against a coach overhang on the outer. 9F cylinders won't be a problem as there isn't a platform. Boards are now back and the upper level is cut back in width on the colliery board. Pics on Monday (Spalding show to buy bits tomorrow). All the best les 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Monday Blues Another frustrating day at the office workshop. No visitors to distract me, loud music from Status Quo then Sweet kept them away. On the positive side I've got both ends of the fiddle yard laid and put down the copperclad at the board joins. I've got the first two wires soldered in and hopefully will be able to test with a loco tomorrow. On the negative side one thickness of copperclad is adequate for the board join at the front but not enough for the code 80 in the fiddle yard. Two thicknesses are too much after smearing the glue on. I've had to add a thickness of balsa either side of the copperclad but have ended with a slight incline either side of the board join at the back. On the better side- checking clearances with the A3 results in these. Clearance is slightly more than with two coaches passing. The new cutout has given me the space for the coal drops as a landsale yard. It will be a little higher and the road will rise up past it. The track at the front is now stuck down for one metre from the right end swinging inland to the underbridge. Hopefully I'll get that bit laid tomorrow. Plenty yet to do. Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Thursday excitement - TRAINS RUNNING. Three days spent mostly in the workshop laying track with Meatloaf and Status Quo repelling visitors successfully. Most of the fiddle yard is now done- or in the case of the siding furthest from the board edge, re-done. Only the road nearest the front edge to lay and I've run out of track pins. I've run a pair of drop wires from each main line track on each board to my On-Tracks twin controller, and have used this to test for shorts- I got a nice puff of smoke from the fiddle yard on one track where there was some copper in the dust across a break I'd cut in the copperclad, but brushing that away solved the problem. Now power is in I can test my tracklaying with some of my more track-sensitive locos and stock. The G5 rebuilt from a Dapol M7 won't run on Stamford East at all. Apart from problems with taking three dead frog points in quick succession it has no major issues. Solution here will be to keep it on a straight road, probably sharing it with a J27 on hoppers. The WD derailed on the first point it came to- then its copper flat spring over the bogie appeared as I was lifting it upright again. Removing this altogether has stopped it derailing and climbing points. Siding length means the lonest mineral train is likely to be 20 hoppers, so it won't be outclassed by the smaller locos. Tomorrow should see Cock O'The North on test, and maybe the last bit of the lower circuit (the final fiddle yard road) laid in. The WD on a train of hoppers passes one of the A3s on a passenger at the site where the underbridge is going to be. All for now Les 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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