What DCC system should I buy?

[ChooChoo_Baloo]

I looking into DCC control for my planned O gauge layout.

 

I am aware of numerous manufacturers of DCC equipemnt for OO gauge; Hornby, Bachmann, Gaugemaster etc.

 

However, being a beginner, can people advise as to whether the readily available OO systems (I am particularly interested in Hornby's products) are fully compatible with O gauge locomotives, as DCC systems for O gauge are much harder to find? I do not know whether the higher power draw motors in O gauge make OO systesm incompatible.

 

Finally, I would be interested to hear what systems fellow members prefer.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Matthew

[Nigelcliffe]

Current draw is dealt with in two places. First the overall current capability of the DCC system, and secondly the rating of the decoder inside the loco.

 

In general, for a small 7mm layout, most DCC systems will be completely adequate, the only common one I'd be concerned about would be the NCE Powercab as its output is only just over 1Amp (this can be increased with add-on kit). For a medium 7mm layout, you might want to look at systems with 5A or higher output. For large layouts, you'll almost certainly need to split the layout and use additional boosters (additional current sources feeding sub-sections of the layout, all controlled by one master DCC system).

 

For decoders, go by the maker's specification. Some of the slightly higher power rated decoders common in 4mm scale will be OK in 7mm, but its down to knowing the current draw of the loco in question.

 

Finally, system maker's. This has been covered dozens of times, so please use the search box and read. Note that there are vastly more systems on sale than the three common brands you list (and I would only put one of those three on my "maybe" list). Look at the products of DCC specialist makers; they stand or fall on their DCC system quality.

Ideally, beg a chance to drive a number of DCC controlled layouts to get a feel of the different user interfaces (in any scale, the handsets are the same regardless of scale!). Discuss the pros and cons of systems with their owners - all systems have shortfalls, the trick is to shortlist systems where their shortfall is in an area where you have no interests.

 

- Nigel

[chris p bacon]

I posted elsewhere about my own experience, simply i went to Digitrains and tried the various systems they have on their test track (00) They are in Digby Lincolnshire, do you have anyone near to you with a similar set up ?

 

I had a couple on my short list, but after messing about with a few I chose one "off the radar" as for me it was the easiest to use (NCE power pro) can't fault it, it is 5amp

[ChooChoo_Baloo]

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

I am looking into ZTC Controls.

[rcmacchipilot]

http://www.dccconcepts.com.au/index_files/DCCgoingdcc.htm

 

I suggest that reading this would be a good idea.

 

Arguably, the limiting factor is not the DCC system, but the choice of decoder.

 

Edit: Nigel Cliff raises some good points that are worth consideration.

 

 

[martin1]

our club test track uses digitrax and we have had no issues for the last 3-4 years,ive got lenz at home again on 7mm easy to use and very reliable,try speeking to digi trains near lincoln there very helpfull and you can try them before you commit to buying.

[Nigelcliffe]

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

I am looking into ZTC Controls.

 

In which case, I double the emphasis on my last paragraph, and recommend that you ask both ZTC users AND those with other systems.

ZTC divides opinion quite strongly. I recommend you research both the pros and cons of ZTC's system.

 

These days, I understand that ZTC only supply direct, so you're unlikely to find a dealer who can let you compare a ZTC system directly alongside other makes.

 

- Nigel

[TWG]

At the Glasgow exhibition in February this year, I paused at the ZTC stand. A member of the public asked whether they offered a radio handheld controller. The answer was that the wavelengths available in the UK "do not work" and that "the other makers are all illegal". This is simply untrue, as the speaker must have known (the reason given on the ZTC website is that demand for radio control is very low).

I also heard the statement that "DCC was invented by Bernd Lenz and Robin Palmer". I am very doubtful if this is true. Mr Palmer invented Zero 1 and was therefore a pioneer of digital control, but I have never heard of him having collaborated with Herr Lenz. The ZTC system appeared about 10 years after the original Lenz one was marketed by Märklin.

 

I would be loath to rely for advice and support on people who make such misleading claims, even if they offered products that were up to date and reasonably priced.

[Gilbert]

A couple of points from me:

 

For 7mm and all other scales - consider after-sales support - I've had extremely good service from A&H for my Lenz, and Model Junction for my NCE Powercab - it's very important - trust me....

 

For 7mm only - consider the load - I've had problems with a Loksound fitted Heljan Hymek using my otherwise excellent Powercab - a (Tam Valley - I think) booster obtained from Digitrains seems to have solved the problem.

 

Chris

[John K]

Hi Matthew,

I have run O gauge railways with Lenz systems for many years.

You will certainly have enough power from a Set 90 or Set 100 to run O gauge.

Lenz may not have produced any ground breaking advances in recent times, but it is reliable and robust.

I also have some experience of NCE; a perfectly good system.

The slightly luke warm responses about ZTC should give you all the information you need there.

 

I have not yet had a system failure with Lenz; you turn it on and it works.

 

Best,

John K

[mikeg]

Hi Matthew, I run O on a Gaugemaster Prodigy and have had no problems either, I will run Heljan locos with a suitawble controller. For most of my locos I have used TCS T1,s and would reconmend them as being esy to programme and install. If you like shunting then the prodigy has a shunt mode that changes the knob to directional and slows the speed of the locos. I have also invested in the radio hand set and although a tad expensive very handy not being connected to the base unit, although you can use a cable longer than the 2m suppied, I have a 25ft computer link that has the right plugs, but it still gets rapped round things and ends up not quite long enough when using.

 

Best advice I was given was to try out the units first at a dealers or at shows if the user is prepared to let you try their system. I started with a roco unit as I liked it but it was not upto O loads and I burnt it out! saw the prodigy being demonstrated at a model shop and had a go, I found it easy to use and all the instructions are on the back of the handset for normal use, so no serching for the manual unless its something special.

 

hope this helps

 

mike g

[ChooChoo_Baloo]

Thanks all for the responses.

 

It's interesting gauging the responses to ZTC --> I struggle to find any glowing recommendations!

 

I think the main thing I've learnt is to do some physical hands-on research at a digital specialist or model railway exhibition.

[Fay Singpoint]

I think the main thing I've learnt is to do some physical hands-on research at a digital specialist or model railway exhibition.

 

That's how I selected my choice of DCC system (Lenz). Out of all the systems I played with, the Lenz handset (IMHO) had the best ergonomics.

 

I am only going to use the Lenz system to drive the trains. Signalling control on my layout will be separate using MERG Cbus and (probably) JMRI although a mechanically interlocked lever frame (as on the prototype) has not yet been ruled out.

[melmerby]

I think the main thing I've learnt is to do some physical hands-on research at a digital specialist or model railway exhibition.

 

Another place that has several systems on test to try is DCC Supplies at Holt Heath, near Droitwich, useful if it's anywhere near you.

 

Keith

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...I have not yet had a system failure with Lenz; you turn it on and it works...

This for me is the most important characteristic of any 'black box' system. The manual is extremely good too, it is close to industrial equipment grade in its thoroughness. Basically if something doesn't work as expected with Lenz, you can be sure it is something you have done wrong, not the system malfunctioning.

 

The ergonomics that Fay Singpoint mentions was the other big hit for me. The handset can easily be held and operated in one hand, other hand free to operate shunting pole, cup of tea, whatever.

 

And finally, while this may not be a factor for all, my Mrs reaction to the command unit and handset was that it was the only one that looked worth the money for build quality.

[steve fay]

I would agree that its a good idea to try as many different systems as you can. I really like the ZTC system they just need to upgrade the functions available but if your not using sound that wont be an issue.

As for the wireless systems gauge masters system is not illegal but there are a few systems that are because of the frequency they use. I was told this by the chaps at Digitrains when I was looking into the NCE system.

Quite what the police would do is another thing. They also told me that if there was a problem with it it would have to go back to America. That was about a year ago so it might now have changed.

I know some on here probably think Im nuts But When I first changed over to DCC it was with the ZTC controller and I learnt it in side out I never had any of the issues others have suffered with & the person who bought off me is still really happy with it, I made the mistake of just buying a new controller based on what it could do instead of trying it first.

Having said that I cant knock the gaugemaster I just personally prefer the layout of a different system

Still I think its time to sell it on now.

When I had my model shop a few customers loved the Dynamis system and then others hated it

[OFFTHE RAILS]

Thanks all for the responses.

 

It's interesting gauging the responses to ZTC --> I struggle to find any glowing recommendations!

 

I think the main thing I've learnt is to do some physical hands-on research at a digital specialist or model railway exhibition.

 

I started on DCC with a Dynamis and found it worked very well - no problems at all, but was put off by the price of the Pro Box upgrade.

For much less than the price of a ProBox expansion I bought a second hand ZTC511 complete with 5A power supply and accessory decoder on Ebay which suits me and my steam period railway just fine.

Ian

[faulcon1]

Although an old tread I found if you're new to DCC whatever you do don't buy online. Like buying a car you want a test drive before you buy. Also the operators manual that comes with a DCC system needs to be fully understood. Is it written in plain good English or is there a lot of tech speak or techno babble throughout it. Many say drive locos using DCC. Well any one can do that but more importantly have a go at changing a loco address by only going on what the manual says and without any help from the salespeople in the shop. Remember if you buy that system they won't be at your layout constantly looking over your shoulder to keep an eye on you. Have a go at changing a CV's value or if the loco that's in front of you has a sound decoder have a go via the manual at changing the sound level. If you want to operate multiple locos have a go at making up a consist and make sure that the salespeople are serving other people. Because at home this will all been down to you with no outside help.

Being able to understand the operators manual and successfully completing tasks by only going on what the manual reads will give you the confidence to buy that system. If however you find that you're tearing your hair out trying to understand what's written in the manual because it's written with words (tech speak) that you don't understand then that system is not for you, at least not yet. 

Also don't be tempted to buy a system with all the bells and whistles on it. If a medium range system is all you'll ever need it will be cheaper than a bells and whistles system. Also don't buy a ultra el cheapo system or a system made by model train manufacturers. There are manufacturers out there that only make DCC systems. It's their main business not a sideline.      

[Oakydoke]

....... Also don't buy a ultra el cheapo system or a system made by model train manufacturers. There are manufacturers out there that only make DCC systems. It's their main business not a sideline.

 

That's an overused cliche that's not entirely accurate.

ESU and Lenz are a leading DCC manufacturers, but they also produce RTR model trains.

The Marklin CS central stations are among the most technically advanced DCC systems available.

Roco & Fleischmann are leading RTR manufacturers, but their MultiMaus system is a very well regarded entry level system. Their Z21 system is leading edge in the DCC control interface field.

Bachmann's Dynamis system is bought in from ESU and was previously, until a couple of years ago, that company's entry level system.

 

So it's not as simple as just labelling model train manufacturer's branded systems as second rate.

[Giggle pin]

Can anyone tell me. Apart from colour what the differece is between yellow faced prodigy 2 controllers and black ones. There is one for sale on ebay which is black. Looking on google i can not find any info to compare models.

 

Its up for £130 which i am nit sure about and dint wsnt to be ripped off.

 

Brian

Sorry about spelling. Did it without my glasses on.

[NIK]

Can anyone tell me. Apart from colour what the differece is between yellow faced prodigy 2 controllers and black ones. There is one for sale on ebay which is black. Looking on google i can not find any info to compare models.

 

Its up for £130 which i am nit sure about and dint wsnt to be ripped off.

 

Brian

Sorry about spelling. Did it without my glasses on.

 

Hi,

 

Are you sure its not an MRC Prodigy Advance 2 rather than a Gaugemaster?.

 

 

Regards 

 

Nick

[Ron Ron Ron]

Can anyone tell me. Apart from colour what the differece is between yellow faced prodigy 2 controllers and black ones. There is one for sale on ebay which is black. Looking on google i can not find any info to compare models.

 

Its up for £130 which i am nit sure about and dint wsnt to be ripped off.

 

 

 

If it's the one shown (on eBay) against a red and blue coloured box, marked MRC, then that's an imported, original manufacturer branded Prodigy Advance².

 

This one?  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MRC-Prodigy-Advance-2-squared-DCC-Train-Controller/142621283968?hash=item2134e41680:g:SXQAAOSwFSxaFsEG

 

 

The Prodigy series of DCC systems are manufactured and sold by the American company, the Model Rectifier Corporation (MRC).

Gaugemaster market some of the MRC Prodigy range in the UK, under their own brand name.

 

All the original MRC versions come with a black face.

 

The Gaugemaster branded Prodigy Advance (the previous model), Prodigy Advance², Prodigy Wireless and their own branded version of the original (now replaced) Prodigy Express...come with the yellow/sand coloured face.

 

The Gaugemaster branded version of the current Prodigy Express², is the only Gaugemaster branded model that comes with a black face.

 

 

The one for sale on eBay will be exactly the same as a Gaugemaster branded Prodigy Advance².

 

I hope that helps.

 

 

p.s. The number 2 is upper case and means "Squared", not "two";  i.e. it's called the "Prodigy Advance Squared".

 

.

[Nigelcliffe]

Can anyone tell me. Apart from colour what the differece is between yellow faced prodigy 2 controllers and black ones. There is one for sale on ebay which is black. Looking on google i can not find any info to compare models.

 

Its up for £130 which i am nit sure about and dint wsnt to be ripped off.

 

Brian

Sorry about spelling. Did it without my glasses on.

 

 

Probably an MRC version (the actual maker of the device) rather than a Gaugemaster version (the UK importer and applier of a badge).   Biggest difference will be support, Gaugemaster will fix Gaugemaster badged ones, often without charge for things well outside warranty terms.   Gaugemaster will tell you to send an MRC version to the US.     Power supply may be different, check carefully. 

 

 

- Nigel

[Giggle pin]

Thank you for the replies. I think I will give it a miss and go with the guage master one

 

Brian

[Giggle pin]

In the end i have gone for the NCE system. Just need it to come now so i can play.

 

Bri