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Dock Green

7mm layout 1950s ER London O gauge LNER




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#26 chaz

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:03

.....There tends to be a limit to the number of combinations and over a two day show you probably cover them all.
Don


Yes, indeed. I have done a few shows in the past, helping to operate a friend's 7mm layout. I think any layout tends to pale after two days regardless of how much scope it has.

Chaz
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#27 chaz

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 10:35

The next scenic feature to get "the treatment" on Dock Green will be a canal. I have it in mind that the water should be that opaque pea-green colour that canals in London always seemed to be, and still, not ruffled by wind or passing barges.

 

P1010870-1.jpg

As you can see from the snap there will not be a huge amount of water visible. I intend to model a towpath on one side and a narrow ledge at the base of the retaining wall on the other .

There are a number of ways of doing the water that occur to me....

1 Paint some board the colour I want and then cover it with several layers of varnish
2 ditto but cover it with glass
3 ditto but cover it with acrylic
4 find a suitably coloured paper or card and then cover it as above
5 some other method that works better than any of these (!?!)

Now, if you have done a canal, or seen it done on a layout and can advise me as to the best/easiest/most convincing way to do the water, I'd like to hear from you.

I would be grateful for any comments or suggestions, as I haven't done water before.

Chaz


Edited by chaz, 10 July 2017 - 07:07 .


#28 Mike

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 11:13

Hi Chaz, I have used 1. magic water on Ashwood Basin. 2. Artists water colour acrylic on Lenches Bridge. 3 PVA on Pattingham.
The three methods used were all applied over sealed and painted ply bases. I have attatched a photo of the PVA method if that helps.
Pattingham Canal.jpg
cheers
Mike

#29 rcf

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 11:39

Hi Chaz, when I built Bude Quay I painted the colour I wanted and then covered it with acrylic. Only problem was when sticking the acrylic down you could see every mark of the glue even though it dried clear. I had to rip it up and ended up using many layers of varnish over a re-painted base.

Rob

#30 chaz

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 13:19

Hi Chaz, I have used 1. magic water on Ashwood Basin. 2. Artists water colour acrylic on Lenches Bridge. 3 PVA on Pattingham.
The three methods used were all applied over sealed and painted ply bases. I have attatched a photo of the PVA method if that helps.


Thanks for that Mike. An encouraging photo! Of the three methods you have tried which would you judge gave the most convincing result?

Chaz

#31 chaz

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 13:22

Hi Chaz, when I built Bude Quay I painted the colour I wanted and then covered it with acrylic. Only problem was when sticking the acrylic down you could see every mark of the glue even though it dried clear. I had to rip it up and ended up using many layers of varnish over a re-painted base.

Rob


Thanks for the advice Rob. If I use acrylic I will not be gluing it, I can screw it down, hiding the screws under the towpath and narrow ledge.

Chaz

#32 bcnPete

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 14:26

Chaz - I can't upload pics at the mo, but I attach a link to my blog where I did a slither of water. I first tried the clear resin method, then redid it using the PVA method but finally settled upon painting the base the shade I wanted and then schlopping numerous coats of humbrol varnish on top...although you can't see a lot in the pics, for me it was the most satisfactory.

http://www.rmweb.co....er-the-weather/

#33 DLT

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 15:44

A very interesting project, and those cassettes are an engineering masterpiece!
Cheers, Dave.

Edited by DLT, 25 July 2012 - 15:44 .

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#34 chaz

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 16:01

Chaz - I can't upload pics at the mo, but I attach a link to my blog where I did a slither of water. I first tried the clear resin method, then redid it using the PVA method but finally settled upon painting the base the shade I wanted and then schlopping numerous coats of humbrol varnish on top...although you can't see a lot in the pics, for me it was the most satisfactory.

http://www.rmweb.co....er-the-weather/


Thanks for the link. I think I may have a tin of Ronseal gloss with some in, if I decide on the varnish method I will probably do a test piece first.

#35 chaz

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 16:03

A very interesting project, and those cassettes are an engineering masterpiece!
Cheers, Dave.


thanks, Dave, for the kind comment - although engineering masterpiece is pitching it a little high!

Chaz

#36 Mike

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 17:35

Thanks for that Mike. An encouraging photo! Of the three methods you have tried which would you judge gave the most convincing result?

Chaz

Probably Magic Water from EDM however at £22.50 it's an expensive method for what will be a shallow application. Chris Nevard is a master of the PVA method and I certainly was very happy with the results as I could add effects such as propeller wash and boat wake.
Mike

#37 chaz

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 19:43

Probably Magic Water from EDM however at £22.50 it's an expensive method for what will be a shallow application. Chris Nevard is a master of the PVA method and I certainly was very happy with the results as I could add effects such as propeller wash and boat wake.
Mike


Thanks Mike. Having seen his layout at a show I must say Chris Nevard is something of a scenery wizard.

Ironically I don't want propeller wash and boat wake as I don't intend modelling a passing barge - if I did I'd want it towed by a horse, as I remember seeing when I was a kid in Hoxton. I want my water to look flat and still.

I am currently seeking a price on a suitable piece of clear acrylic sheet - hoping it doesn't do too much damage to the wallet......

Chaz

Edited by chaz, 25 July 2012 - 19:47 .


#38 chaz

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 20:10

More photos of the warehouse, showing it's current state....

P1010770-1.jpg

The building in place on the layout. On the left is an (odd looking?) extension finished with corrugated plastic and a lot of Peco track pins representing bolts. I didn't want even more brick and needed something big to hide the end of the cassette area. Most of the buildings are not yet weathered and therefore look much too new. I will weather them when they are all in place - this way I hope to get a consistent look (and to reveal detail like bolt heads that the flat paint has tended to hide).

P1010687-1.jpg

Closer view of the LH end. The platform surface is dark grey card - it badly needs repair patches, seams, areas of different shades of grey etc - a job for later. The track along the platform is perilously close to the baseboard edge and I will be fitting a wooden fence along the front to prevent any accidents befalling (sorry!) the stock.

P1010769-1.jpg

The RH end showing the brick extension filling the gap between the main building and the (unfinished) road bridge. This extension is shaped to fit against the bridge and is, I hope, typical of how buildings were often shoe-horned into tight spaces.

The back end of the bridge is cut away to allow access to the cassette area. This cut will be screened by a retaining wall just behind the headshunt, which you can see emerging beyond the staff access stairs. The wall on the far side of the bridge will have advertisement hoardings above it to further block the view - a job for later.

P1010683-1.jpg

Close up of one of the five downpipes with cast white-metal hoppers and 2mm plastic rod "pipes". I formed the bottom curve by heating gently over a candle flame and setting the shape on a drawing of the required angle. The pipe clamps are to a compromise design which doesn't bear really close examination! Nice quoins, but again photography shows up where a little more work is required!

P1010747-1.jpg

Fittings made for the downpipe clamps. That backplate looks very crude in this close up! The plastic rod (1.2mm) was again heated over a flame and then curved round a bit of spare downpipe. I drilled two holes in the building and pushed the "U" shaped rod through the backplate and into the holes, trapping the downpipe in place. I found it easier to guide the clips into the holes with the legs cut to different lengths. Often the springiness of the rod was enough to hold the clamp securely. If not pulling the clamp away slightly and applying a touch of CA did the trick.

P1010697-1.jpg

This is a big building! It needs to be to make an effective screen.

The doors are all individually planked from 0.8mm plywood. The (non-moving) sliding doors are stuck on top of the walls with thin packing under them - which unfortunately doesn't show in this photo - so they look as though they will move. I would have liked to model some of the doors open, but the industrial siding cassette area is just behind the wall. The "people" doors are glued to small pieces of foamboard attached to the back of the wall so that they are inside the reveals. The hinged double doors and their frame are also fixed from the back. The hinges are cut from cereal box card. The boltheads on these hinges, the door knobs on the people doors and the bolts on the canopy are all Peco track pins. I got through a lot of those.

Flash photography is too good at showing up all those little places that the paint brush missed....yet another job for later.

Chaz


Edited by chaz, 10 July 2017 - 07:17 .

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#39 chaz

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 15:25

I've passed the age where I want to crawl about under layouts doing stuff like wiring - my knees are just not up to it. :no: Now Dock Green has a set of 5 hinged legs. I recently modified a couple of these by fixing a piece of chipboard (actually part of an old worktop) to the top cross piece with 5mm set screws and wing nuts. The two plates both carry a 10mm bolt, fixed in place with a nut and penny washers. I fixed this pivot bolt so that there is enough clear space to allow a baseboard to swing. I drilled a 10.5mm hole in the centre of both ends of each board. The baseboard to be worked on is set up between the two legs as seen in the photo below, with the 10mm bolts pushed right through.

P1010871-1.jpg

My baseboards naturally want to spin round so that they are upside down but I use a G cramp to hold the board at the desired angle. Obviously when I want to use the legs to set up the whole railway it's a simple job to remove the 5mm bolts and detach the pivot plates.

P1010873-1.jpg

This arrangement really pays off when I want access to both sides. The baseboard can be flipped over and back again with very little effort.
This afternoon I have been fitting some pine battens into this baseboard to support the shell of the canal. Being able to work both on the top and on the underside with very little effort made the job much less arduous. It's far too hot today for lifting and straining.......

Chaz


Edited by chaz, 10 July 2017 - 07:19 .

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#40 BG John

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 15:37

When it's finished you could build another layout underneath, and rotate it so the one you want to operate is on top!

Or if you're building a modular layout, build modules back to back and rotate!

#41 chaz

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:35

When it's finished you could build another layout underneath, and rotate it so the one you want to operate is on top!

Or if you're building a modular layout, build modules back to back and rotate!


Ermmm......errr........hmmmm. :jester:

#42 DLT

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:46

I've passed the age where I want to crawl about under layouts doing stuff like wiring -

This arrangement really pays off when I want access to both sides. The baseboard can be flipped over and back again with very little effort.

Brilliant! Why didn't I think of that???

#43 N15class

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 20:48

I second that "Brilliant idea" Just makes so much sence, I am surprised it had not been thought of before

#44 Western Star

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 21:39

Yes it has and the model resides in the HMRS study centre - in outline, four sections on a common axis so that the model moves through the four seasons of the year. The layout was featured in an early BRM.

#45 BG John

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 21:50

I second that "Brilliant idea" Just makes so much sence, I am surprised it had not been thought of before

I've thought of it before, but at the speed I build layouts, there's not much point actually doing it!

#46 chaz

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 22:13

Brilliant! Why didn't I think of that???


Presumably because the pain levels in your knees and hips haven't reached 11 on the ouchometer yet?

#47 chaz

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 22:17

Yes it has and the model resides in the HMRS study centre - in outline, four sections on a common axis so that the model moves through the four seasons of the year. The layout was featured in an early BRM.


I've seen that layout (some time ago at some show) - memory suggests that the section that rotates is quite small.

Chaz

#48 Donw

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 06:44

There was a very interesting article on modelling water by Philip Harvey (IIRC) in MRJ some time ago. I wonder if a piece of green perspex could be found whether that placed on a black base would do the trick. PVA or clear silicon could be used to add any details wanted. My experiment with PVA for an area of water was not sucess as it lifted and went milky.
Don

#49 DLT

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 08:45

Presumably because the pain levels in your knees and hips haven't reached 11 on the ouchometer yet?

No not yet, but the bendability of various bits is definitely on the decrease.
Dave

#50 chaz

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 10:42

There was a very interesting article on modelling water by Philip Harvey (IIRC) in MRJ some time ago. I wonder if a piece of green perspex could be found whether that placed on a black base would do the trick. PVA or clear silicon could be used to add any details wanted. My experiment with PVA for an area of water was not sucess as it lifted and went milky.
Don

Thanks for the tip If it was some time ago I might well have a copy - I stopped buying MRJ at about the time Tim Shakleton stopped being editor. Green transparent acrylic over black sounds a good idea. Worth a try.

Chaz












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