Dock Green

[chaz]

Crikey! This is going to take a while.....

 

Had my first go at doing stone setts using DAS today and I must say the results are most encouraging BUT it takes an awful long time to do a small area.

 

I fixed a spare piece of Peco O gauge track to an offcut of foamboard. To economise I glued card between and over the sleepers so that the DAS would only need to be about 1.5mm thick. I coated the card with PVA and then applied the layer of DAS. I used a straight edge to make sure that the surface of the DAS was a little below the rail height - to avoid any potential problems later with the running of stock or locos.

 

First picture shows my setup for scribing in the setts.

 

 

From left to right....

old paint brush to clear the scrapings away - otherwise you can't see what you have done

pencil

the track/DAS sample

scriber

steel rule and engineers square to aid marking out

(under the steel rule) a scrap of embossed brick sheet to help measure out the rows

 

And behind...

a print of some of the snaps I took at Amberley - I don't intend to follow these too closely but a bit of reality always helps...

a table lamp - provides oblique directional lighting, emphasising the incisions

 

 

A couple of hours with the scriber got me this. No doubt I will get quicker but when I realise that this is a couple of inches of track done and the siding I want to inset is about three feet long, it's going to be a slow job. I think I may have made the flangeways too wide. I will put a wagon on the sample and see if they can be narrower.

 

 

I thought it best to use water based paint on the DAS so I mixed up a light (!) grey with artists acrylics. Whilst the paint was still wet I washed some of the colour off the setts with a brush loaded with just water. The result is (I think) very encouraging.

 

However I now realise why you don't see stone setts modelled very often!

 

Chaz

[two tone green]

RM Web is like a well served bus route, lots of brilliant ideas, skills and demos all coming along at regular intervals. Excellent stuff.

 

Questions please, how long does the DAS take to set and it is easily rolled out flat like pastry. When I say flat I mean very flat like a platform surface.

 

Got a few things in the back of my mind which may well solve a small problem I have.

[chaz]

RM Web is like a well served bus route, lots of brilliant ideas, skills and demos all coming along at regular intervals. Excellent stuff.

 

Questions please, how long does the DAS take to set and it is easily rolled out flat like pastry. When I say flat I mean very flat like a platform surface.

 

Got a few things in the back of my mind which may well solve a small problem I have.

 

Thanks for that TTG!

 

I think the setting (drying?) time might well depend on how thick a layer is applied. I left mine for a few days before I attacked it (only 'cos I was busy with the platform planking) but I think it was dry the following day. I didn't roll mine out so I can't say for certain, but it is quite soft from the packet so I think it should roll flat easily enough, although you might need talc on the roller to stop the DAS sticking to it. I thumbed small lumps of it into place and then smoothed it out with wet fingers and tamped it with an edge, rather as you would if you were cementing a drive.

 

Chaz

Edited August 13, 2012 by chaz

[two tone green]

Hi Chaz,

 

Excellent info, thanks.

 

The max thickness would be around the same as you had, 1.5mm. It can have the weekdays to dry hard as I am away during the week but would like to be able to have a nice flat surface that can be 'textured' afterwards to represent tarmac surface.

 

But the primary use is to use it as a replacement for 1.5mm plastic card that I need for my platform surface. As the platform sides and edging are in place, using plastic card to follow the irregular curved side on one face of the platform will be quite a challenge. So to be able to roll out DAS across the top and roll flat and trim against the curved edges seems a nice way to finish things off. On top then would be very thin york paving embossed plastic card I have.

 

Will have to get some and experiment as you have.

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

Regards

 

Andy Jack

[N15class]

Last time I did some cobbles I ran the clay right upto the rail and them ran a large flanged wheel along the rail to get the back to back gauge right and to make it more prototypical by just having a grove where the flanges run.

 

Very good test piece.

[chaz]

Last time I did some cobbles I ran the clay right upto the rail and them ran a large flanged wheel along the rail to get the back to back gauge right and to make it more prototypical by just having a grove where the flanges run.

 

Very good test piece.

 

An interesting idea Peter. When you say "a large flanged wheel" did you make a special one to give a little working clearance? I am very conscious of the fact that when I made a paved area on a previous 7mm layout I used card. Although this was supposed to be set just below rail height I did get problems with loss of electrical pick-up due, I think, to the card warping slightly. I expect the DAS to be stable but I don't want to take any chances - the thought of spending hours getting a good looking effect only to have it interfere with running is just not on.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

 

The max thickness would be around the same as you had, 1.5mm. It can have the weekdays to dry hard as I am away during the week but would like to be able to have a nice flat surface that can be 'textured' afterwards to represent tarmac surface.

 

But the primary use is to use it as a replacement for 1.5mm plastic card that I need for my platform surface. As the platform sides and edging are in place, using plastic card to follow the irregular curved side on one face of the platform will be quite a challenge. So to be able to roll out DAS across the top and roll flat and trim against the curved edges seems a nice way to finish things off. On top then would be very thin york paving embossed plastic card I have.

 

Will have to get some and experiment as you have.

 

Andy Jack

 

I'm a bit confused. You say "On top then would be very thin york paving embossed plastic card". If you mean you are going to glue plastic on top of the DAS - why bother with the DAS?

 

Chaz

[N15class]

An interesting idea Peter. When you say "a large flanged wheel" did you make a special one to give a little working clearance? I am very conscious of the fact that when I made a paved area on a previous 7mm layout I used card. Although this was supposed to be set just below rail height I did get problems with loss of electrical pick-up due, I think, to the card warping slightly. I expect the DAS to be stable but I don't want to take any chances - the thought of spending hours getting a good looking effect only to have it interfere with running is just not on.

 

Chaz

We used a coarse scale driving wheel set, which I cannot remember if they where modified. What I can remember is that the flanges rubbed the inside of the rails and left a space that the normal wheels would run in.

[two tone green]

Hi Chaz,

 

The DAS would be there only as a packer to build up the height between the wood section that forms the base of the platform and the height of the edging strips which are about 1.5 mm thick.

 

The platform faces are the same height as the wood former and then the edging is placed on top so this forms a step and needs filling in, hence the DAS.

 

See photos of platforms here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/25365-st-davids/page__st__50 and scroll towards the bottom of the page.

 

AJ

[chaz]

We used a coarse scale driving wheel set, which I cannot remember if they where modified. What I can remember is that the flanges rubbed the inside of the rails and left a space that the normal wheels would run in.

 

I suppose I could turn up a special roller to do the job, but being an idle s*d I will probably stick with a thin piece of card held in place to stop the DAS spreading up to the rail.

 

NOW - another good reason for a test piece - came down this morning into the workroom (Oh alright, kitchen) and picked up the setts sample to admire it. The card in the "four foot" at the end where the setts start had warped to such an extent that the DAS surface was a mill' or so above rail height. I think that the water from the paint washes had soaked in and caused the problem. Memo to self - when fitting the card packing be generous with the glue and maybe add some countersunk screws (these will be buried under the DAS so will need a splash of enamel paint to prevent rusting, which could well bleed through later. We live and learn....and then we forget.....

 

Chaz

Edited August 14, 2012 by chaz

[chaz]

Of course this has left me with a dilemna. I've got an awful lot to do to Dock Green to get it in any sort of state for a show at the end of October, even allowing for the fact that it goes as a "work in progress". My inclination is get straight on with the setts - the result of my little test was so encouraging BUT this must be resisted. I think they could easily use most of the time I have left. Ho Hum. Maybe I should take an axe to the TV......

 

Chaz

[mikeg]

Chaz, the warping may just be where the DAS has dried out and the card is not stiff enough to resist, I had this problem with the 4' way infil and I had used 3mm thick card, overcame the problem by painting the back of the card with paint before gluing down and appling neat PVA to the top and letting dry before appling the DAS and this worked for most of the infil replacement, about 12ft in all, I've 18ft total 6ft was OK although slighty warped it was not above rail level.

 

Your modelling looks excellent and I wish I could get as good results!

 

regard

 

mike g

[chaz]

Chaz, the warping may just be where the DAS has dried out and the card is not stiff enough to resist, I had this problem with the 4' way infil and I had used 3mm thick card, overcame the problem by painting the back of the card with paint before gluing down and appling neat PVA to the top and letting dry before appling the DAS and this worked for most of the infil replacement, about 12ft in all, I've 18ft total 6ft was OK although slighty warped it was not above rail level.

 

Your modelling looks excellent and I wish I could get as good results!

 

Thanks for the kind comment Mike. I am pleased to read about your methods. When you say you painted the back of the card, what type of paint did you use? You put neat PVA on the top and let it dry. Did you add more PVA for the DAS to bond to?

 

Sounds worth doing.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I thought the end wall of the warehouse was rather plain and devoid of interest (it’s a big area of brick). I didn’t want to have any windows in this wall as they would betray the rather odd interior of the building and it’s lack of any internal detail. I hit on the idea of a fixed access ladder, from the main roof to the strange little triangular roof of the extension, as an interesting feature.

 

 

You can see that I put a door in the wall – this has a spruce frame and is planked with the same thin ply’ as all the other doors on the building. The ladder and cage are from the Plastruct range and are, I think, to 1:48 scale. They are a little heavy in section but look quite acceptable I think.

 

 

Above is a closer view. You can see that the workers who put the bitumen on the roof didn’t take too much trouble to finish with a neat line on the wall! As I think I've said before none of the brick buildings have been weathered yet (and doesn't it show). I want to do them all at the same time so that I can get a uniform feel to the grime.

 

Yet again photography does a fine job in highlighting any little faults, which would otherwise go unnoticed. When the layout is "finished" (!) I will take a lot of photos of every bit of it and check them over for defects that need attention or hiding.

 

 

The looped handrails are 0.8mm brass wire soldered into two short pieces of brass angle. I bent the wire round the plain end of a 7mm drill. The wires are extended down through the angle on the ladder side and fit into holes in the parapet stones. This allows the handrails to be removed when the layout is to be moved or stored. They would otherwise be very vulnerable to damage. The steps, being below the top of the parapet, are glued in place.

 

I don’t want to see any jokes about swimming pools.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I intend to cover a siding with stone setts as per the sample (for details of how see above).....

 

 

....but the area to be covered is about 3 feet by 9 inches. This will take quite a time to complete.

Dock Green has its first outing on October 21st and before then I have quite a lot of stuff to finish, so reluctantly the setts must go somewhere towards the bottom of the list.

 

I would welcome suggestions as to a quick, simple alternative to make the siding look reasonably acceptable. Obviously there is no point in ballasting it as it will eventually be lost under the setts - indeed it might well make the card packing under the setts more difficult to get level.

 

The only thing I can think of is to fit the card packing and to add photocopies of the setts I did on the test sample. Later the paper would be pulled off and replaced with DAS.

 

Chaz

[BrushType4]

Chaz,

 

I think with the quality of your work, it would be better to leave unfinished rather then have a not quite so good effect that might ruin the overal look.

 

Perhaps make a little 'joke' of it by making up some roadworks signs or something.

 

Keep up the good work

[Metr0Land]

I tend to agree with Brush Type 4. Leave it as 'work in progress' unless you're absolutely happy with a short cut. If you're not happy with the short cut your audience won't be either!

[chaz]

I tend to agree with Brush Type 4. Leave it as 'work in progress' unless you're absolutely happy with a short cut. If you're not happy with the short cut your audience won't be either!

 

Well, yes. I thought a hint of what will be there would be good but I suppose a much better way of doing that would be to complete some of the DAS work even if there's not time to do it all. WTS

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I spent most of yesterday working on bridge #1 and specifically on the brick staircase which would give staff access from the road down to the yard.

 

 

The real function of this feature is as a view blocker. I hope that it makes it a little less obvious that there are a couple of tracks that go through the bridge and must also go right through the bottom storeys of the warehouse.

There are a full set of steps in there, but from most angles they are invisible. I'm glad I didn't bother with a handrail! The doorway? Some small storeroom in the base of the structure - maybe disused and boarded up. I put it in there to relieve that large area of plain brick.

You can see that the stairs will sit across a baseboard join.

 

 

Above is a view from above the road.The doorway was built on a small piece of veneering ply' (thin card would have done just as well). Spruce sections were glued to both sides to make the frame, and narrow strips of 0.8mm ply' (what else?) were added for the door itself. I did also glue a tiny piece of paper each side in which I drilled a 0.5mm hole - to represent a lock plate. You can make it out in this snap but it's invisible from any sensible viewing distance.

 

Memo to self - paint that unpainted bit of the frame that's visible and put bricks on the bare end of that wall. Yet again photography reveals!

 

The road surface must be the most perfect in the whole of the UK. I will add a representation of gutters, some evidence of repairs, seams etc, and some weeds or dirt and rubbish at the base of the wall (it will hide that gap!). I am quite pleased with those (home made) drains.

 

 

There is still some brickwork to add to the bridge and then, of course, the whole thing requires some heavy weathering.

 

All the scenic features on Dock Green must be removeable so that the baseboards can be stacked out of the way and take up as little space as possible. Bridge #1 with the stairs fixed in place would be vey unwieldy to remove and store so I have made the stairs so that they plug-in. As the stairs are lifted away you can see the steeply graded line to the industrial estate - it actually goes to cassettes inside the base of the warehouse. As I have said before Dock Green is so tight a fit in the space available that some big compromises have been made. I always intended that the bridges would divide the layout into a series of small sections, each one to be viewed as a separate scene - a bit like a series of linked dioramas.

 

Chaz

[DLT]

Brilliant Chaz, a gloomy and unpleasant place to linger, very atmospheric.

Dave.

[chaz]

Brilliant Chaz, a gloomy and unpleasant place to linger, very atmospheric.

Dave.

 

Thanks Dave. It will be even more "gloomy and unpleasant" when I have added the weathering. I don't think I will go quite as far as Belle Isle or Holloway Bank, which had truly awful cakes of soot adhering to the brickwork.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

One of the problems that I am having working on Dock Green is that it is impossible for me to erect the whole layout anywhere in the house except the kitchen – where it completely fills the room (not sensible and extremely unpopular!). I have avoided the problem up to now by working on single baseboards. However when I want to sort out a feature that spans a baseboard joint (like the brick-built stairs on bridge #1) it becomes vital to have two boards set up and linked together to get an accurate fit. This will also be important when I start doing such things as ground treatments if I am to avoid obvious mismatches in colour or texture. Today I discovered that if I moved a few bits of furniture I could erect a pair of baseboards in the front room upstairs - and leave them up without them being a major obstacle.

 

 

The picture above shows the two left hand baseboards set up on the support legs and locked together. In the middle distance is bridge #1 and beyond it is the warehouse. There is still a fair amount of work to do on the bridge.

The short spur that ends against the bridge to the left of the stairs will need a stop block, probably a simple wooden beam. To the right of the stairs is the steeply graded line to the industrial estate (actually to a cassette based fiddle yard). The edges of the brick cutting will need either walls or railings. The track to the right of the industrial line is the headshunt which runs right to the far end of the baseboards, underneath the back of the warehouse. The retaining wall on the right is there to screen the cassettes which arriving and departing trains run from and to.

 

 

This snap shows bridge #2 in place. The strange, squat water tower (unfinished) that sits half under the bridge is there to screen the exit of the “main” line. I did originally have three spans in mind for this bridge which would have given me a bridge pier do the job but I didn’t like the way the bridge worked out in three sections.

 

There is still a huge amount to do but I am much encouraged by how it looks so far.

 

Chaz

Edited August 19, 2012 by chaz

[shanks522]

Hi Chaz,

 

I've been reading through your thread and am really impressed, This is just the kind of thing that makes me want to build an 0 gauge layout.

 

Graham.

[chaz]

Hi Chaz,

 

I've been reading through your thread and am really impressed, This is just the kind of thing that makes me want to build an 0 gauge layout.

 

Graham.

 

Thanks for the kind comment Graham. I started in 7mm by building a brass loco kit as, at the time, unless you were very rich this was an essential skill. However things are changing and there are now some quite affordable RTR locos appearing.

 

What will make Dock Green really come alive will be the rolling stock. When I get some areas nearer finished I will post some snaps featuring locos and wagons.

 

Chaz

Edited August 19, 2012 by chaz

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Chaz,

Just found this thread.

 

What a wonderful standard of modelling. So many clever ideas too.

 

Very well done.