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Grantham - the Streamliner years


LNER4479
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Hi Robert

 

Thanks for posting this, superb, I started the "other" Grantham thread on RMweb, you are way ahead of me at the moment as I am still building the storage yard, When are you aiming to have this ready for the exhibition circuit?

 

Ian

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Well I.m not from the area at all but now my in-laws live in Lincolnshire I find that anything relating to the Grantham area, especially High Dyke, just captivates my interest further. This looks a very exciting layout of an interesting era and I.m sure something my late father would have well appreciated.

Thanks for sharing and giving the model manufacturers the encouragement that they are producing what we want! Well done!

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Just a quick post re track plan (Grantham Diagram - Signalling.pdf). This is only diagrammatic (for signalling) so does not shows sidings or depot. I do have a scale track plan half drawn but it is quite long and thin! I'll see if I can draw up something suitable for posting.

 

Thanks LNERGE for South box diagram. You can see from the attached diagram how my junctions at the south end are something of a compromise compared to the other two boxes. Even with compromise it's complex enough(!) and allows most of the prototypical moves to be made. Your diagram handy for signals, even though it looks to be a more modern era (with the inevitable 'whitening out' of former lines).

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Congratulations on an excellent and most atmospherically evocative layout. Although my interests are WCML, I have spent enough of my years in Wolverhampton MRC working on or exhibiting Fordley Park, Leighford, Stoke Summit and Charwelton (yes, I know it's not ECML) to have a more than sneaking regard for LNER locos and stock. Dammit, I even own quite a lot!

 

I shall be watching progress on your layout with considerable interest.

 

Thanks for sharing your achievements.

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That is looking really good. I love the liveries and the locos of that period, with that mix of the brand new streamliners rubbing shoulders with some pretty ancient GNR stuff.

 

I also like the way you have made a pragmatic decision to accept some compromises in order to get the project up and running within a sensible timescale. I really don't think your compromises detract at all from the overall look of the layout at all. Code 100 track, neatly laid and well painted, can be "got away with" quite nicely, especially on such a large layout, where the "wow" factor is in the scope and size of the layout rather than in the small details.

 

I look forward to seeing you progress on here and perhaps viewing the layout at a show some time.

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Another stunner in the making. Thanks for sharing.

 

I've never been to Grantham Station - but sadly spent far too much time on top of the hill.

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Thanks for further kind comments over last few days. Several have commented on use of Peco trackwork etc, so I thought I'd post a few details.

 

First of all, all track and ballast is painted (sprayed) before laying. Here are a couple of lengths of underlay have been sprayed as a prelude to track laying. Yes, that is Peascliffe tunnel entrance to be.

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The colour used is 'ancient white' (or 'off white' if you like). It is intended to represent the colour of ballast when it is freshly laid, straight out of the quarry. Of course the colour of ballast does vary greatly but photographic evidence seems to indicate that light grey is a good base to build up the weathering colours on top of. Why use of the foam ballast? Well speed is certainly one factor. I also like the lovely smooth 'whoosh' of a train moving past at speed that you get. Finally, the precise shape of the foam for me quite closely matches the carefully manicured ballast shoulder that was a trademarked of hand maintained trackwork in steam days (quite different from the appearance today)

 

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Meanwhile, here's some track being sprayed a dark brown colour (outside of course, plenty of natural ventilation). Aargh! Doesn't it get in all the point blades etc? Well, it does to some extent. I prefer to wait till it's dry then the running surface can be scraped off easily enough, followed by a piece of emery cloth between the point blade and stock rail. Usually that does the trick; any additional cleaning is done as necessary when test running.

 

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The other thing I do is to modify pointwork so as to maintain a standard 11' 2" (@45mm) track centre; standard Peco pointwork gives 'too wide' 50mm track centres. Feel free to point out the exceptions to the rule (former GW broad gauge routes are the obvious examples) but I do believe that the extra work involved is rewarded in helping create the prototypical look of UK double track mainlines (especially as OO is slightly narrow gauge anyway).

 

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Here are the above two points, now installed as the facing cross-over off the Nottingham branch.

 

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All pointwork on the layout uses the standard Peco products - apart from this one! This is the crossing just off the north end of the down (northbound) platforms. No amount of juggling the track would allow a standard product to be used so I soldered this up from code 100 rail and copper clad sleepers. Sprayed as above it blends in remarkably well.

 

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The final aspect is track alignment. Here I adopt a method involving knocking in 15mm panel pins in the centre of the trackbed every six inches and then lay the track up against these. What I'm doing here is to measure the offset of each pin from its neighbours. As a first pass, this will produce an uneven alignment; but by juggling each pin and re-measuring eventually a smooth alignment results.

 

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This is the alignment of the Nottingham lines as they curve away from the East Coast Mainline (just visible on the extreme right). Whereas a straight alignment is simplicity itself, the human eyeball isn't quite as good when it comes to curves! I find this method allows lovely smooth curves and transitions to be mapped out.

 

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Tracklaying is then simplicity itself, I just use this simple wood template to position the track at the correct position relative to the panel pin, drill and fix with a Peco track pin. In some cases, I've had to temporarily remove track and relay - usually the track pin goes straight back into its original hole!

 

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The second line of the double track is then laid to maintain the 45mm track centre. Even simpler.

 

And so, putting it all together:

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An Atlantic heads takes the Nottingham road out of Grantham, over the tracks that I showed being laid earlier. There are some lovely 'sweeps' at this (north) end of the layout to contrast with the arrow straight alignment from the south. The stock is a pair of Kirk articulated twins, formed up as Brake(4) Third - All third + Lavatory Composite - Brake(5) Third, a classic LNER non-corridor four car formation (although in truth a little too 'posh' for the Nottingham services of the 1930s!)

 

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This view shows a K3 taking the 'Up' slow line having passed through the station with a long coal train. In the immediate foreground, the central space between the two lengths of Peco foam underlay has been filled in level with fine ballast. This further aids appearance. However, it is crying out for weathering! I also think I'll snip off all those pips on the end of the point bars. This also shows that I am only using the foam for the main running lines, as the less important lines were less well tended. The tracks either side are therefore laid on 3mm cork (painted dark grey). I think it doesn't look too bad as it is but some light ballasting will be applied to help blend in. The ground signal is of the 'rotating head' type. It has the signal box lever number (12) marked on it (this is something I've observed from period photos) - and it works.

 

Hope all this is of interest and gives some idea of what lies behind the trackwork. I don't claim it to be especially clever or that it might to everyone's taste; it's just the way I've come to make use of the Peco system after nearly 30 years of practice.

Happy to respond to any comments folks may have.

 

'Robert'

Edited by LNER4479
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I'd love to see more shots of the complex junctions - I've got a thing about track, and yours is lovely!

 

Once again, I'm convinced that the best layouts are the ones that closely follow the real thing from track layout to rolling stock to operations.

 

Are you modelling the depot and all the engine changing? After 1950 something, Grantham had a turning wye built, rather unusual for the UK I think.

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I'd love to see more shots of the complex junctions - I've got a thing about track, and yours is lovely!

 

Once again, I'm convinced that the best layouts are the ones that closely follow the real thing from track layout to rolling stock to operations.

 

Are you modelling the depot and all the engine changing? After 1950 something, Grantham had a turning wye built, rather unusual for the UK I think.

 

Thank you Dr Gerbil-Fritters for this and your other kind comments. Yes I agree with you about basing a trackplan on the protoype. It is fascinating to research and observe how track plans varied between different railway companies and evolved over time. Certainly the configurations of today can be very different to 70-80 years ago so it is important to research carefully to relicate the correct look of the era.

 

In response to your request, here are some further views. The photo quality is a little inferior but it should show the details of the track plan.

 

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This is a close up of the junctions by North Box. This is the pre-war layout; it was simplified post-war to a plain double junction (which illustrates well the above point). The heart of it is two single slips, arranged in the trailing direction (as was the normal convention - facing points on mainlines used to be avoided unless absolutely necessary). I have introduced a slight curve in these (it is possible, by cutting away selective pieces of the webbing underneath the point) to maintain the smooth flow of the curve. Alongside the box are two Y-points. In this case, the nearest one has to be facing as this is a diverging junction. On the left hand side, I have laid out temporarily how the pointwork has been designed to depict the bay platforms on this side, although in this case there will be a considerable reduction on the amount of trackwork that there was in this area on the real thing.

 

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Moving further towards the station, this shows the rather delightful 'scissors' arrangement between the box and the station. In this case, I have been able to replicate the exact layout here. You can see no less that three double slips in this area. The handmade crossing that I showed above can clearly be seen and, because I was able to construct it exactly to fit, it gives a lovely straight alignment out of the bay platform to pick up the Nottingham route out of the station. Alongside the bay platform, to the right, you can see a Gresley pacific occupying the engine siding. This is where a relieving loco would wait, pending a north-bound loco change, so - yes - it is the intention to depict the engine changes. In the background, the rear-most double slip provides one of two access points to the depot area.

 

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Talking of which, here is the depot, or at least the rather limited work I have done on it to date. The afore-mentioned double slip is extreme bottom left and following that there is a rather gorgeous 'super scissors' arrangement. It seems rather over-elaborate but it was clearly there in pictures which just goes to show that many a depot yard was anything but a simple 'ladder' of points. In the middle of it is a standard Peco 'short' crossing which has been heavily butchered (along with the corresponding legs of other four associated points) to make this arrangement as compact as possible. The turntable well can clearly be seen with its access road being the yet-to-be-laid spur off the right hand leg of the three-way point. You are quite correct about the turning triangle post-war. Apparently, the foundations of this turntable (remarkably one of four that existed at various times at the Grantham depot site) collapsed in 1950 and the installation of a triangle was apparently the simplest alternative option, as there was spare land available. But being pre-war, I'm OK with the turntable (a triangle would be a serious challenge space wise on a model!). Beyond that, where there is a lighter coloured area, there will be a depiction of the old shed building. This was actually a four-road structure - but I'm only going to build it as a two-road shed (compromise again). This building was demolished after the war but again I'm OK with it being the 1930's. Opposite this (to the right) will be the coaling stage and in the distance there is a board I have yet to build which will feature the 'new' shed. Again this was a four-road building. I've got my eye on the Townstreet resin kit (to save a bit of time) which is suitable for three-roads; another compromise which should keep things in proportion. I calculate that I should be able to get 24 locos on my depot before it gets 'bunged up'; I think that should be enough!

 

Hope this helps understand some more of the details; like you it seems, I could talk trackplans all night!

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Very interesting work with the standard Peco hardware, indeed - you should be proud of the result.

 

When you get a chance, I'd love to see a closer photo of the curved slips - how much surgery did you need to do to get them to take on a flowing shape?

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This thread should be compulsory reading for all those using Peco track!

 

The extra care and effort you have put into your track laying has made a huge difference to the appearance and realism, especially sorting out the track centres and introducing some very attractive sweeping curves.

 

There are many, many layouts seen at shows, where the whole track arrangement is based on what standard Peco points will fit where. They stick out like sore thumbs and once the track department shows that lack of modelling input, the rest of the layout is usually a let down too.

 

By adopting a real track layout and adapting the pointwork to fit, you have pretty much done away with the pitfalls of that approach and the resultant "straight out of the box" appearance that comes with it.

 

No "I want some points here so this bit of layout has to be straight" syndrome on Grantham!

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This thread should be compulsory reading for all those using Peco track!

 

The extra care and effort you have put into your track laying has made a huge difference to the appearance and realism, especially sorting out the track centres and introducing some very attractive sweeping curves.

 

There are many, many layouts seen at shows, where the whole track arrangement is based on what standard Peco points will fit where. They stick out like sore thumbs and once the track department shows that lack of modelling input, the rest of the layout is usually a let down too.

 

By adopting a real track layout and adapting the pointwork to fit, you have pretty much done away with the pitfalls of that approach and the resultant "straight out of the box" appearance that comes with it.

 

No "I want some points here so this bit of layout has to be straight" syndrome on Grantham!

 

Well said t-b-g! (and thanks)

 

Yes, I too have stood by many a barrier at an exhibition or read many an article in a magazine and found that what I would call the straight-curve-straight-curve approach is the thing that 'jars' (although there may be some beautiful modelling around it).

 

From what I've read over the years, it is the alignment of the main running lines that is key and the civil engineer will set out that alignment to give the smoothest ride for the trains that run over it. This is not only in consideration of the comfort of passengers but also the security of the goods being transported - the civil engineer also has a vested interest in that trains that run smoothly over his track don't bash it about that much!

 

Having set out the alignment of the main running lines then all subsidiary lines and sidings fit in around it. It is they therefore that should have the sharp reverse curves in, as these tracks are of less priority as speeds will be much lower.

 

The mainlines through Grantham had about a 70mph speed limit by the time the streamliners came along (I believe) so a smooth alignment would have been a must. Hence on the model the setting out of the alignment pins (as I have described) to ensure this is replicated. As you so eloquently point out, to have the 'Coronation' train wiggling about all over the place as it speeds through Grantham would destroy the illusion!

 

Thanks for your and other folks comments on this subject; glad it is of interest.

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What you've really shown is that the use of Peco is no hindrance to proper right of way - I too can't hack the curve-straight-curve of most exhibition roundy roundys. And even worse, the diametric opposite, the random reverse curves 'because railways aren't straight' approach.

 

I think you should do a 'using Peco properly' tutorial and it should be made a sticky!

 

I've noticed even some of the hand made track folk still make errors in track layout which defeats the hours of labour that go into the track construction..

 

Now, Sir. When and where are you on the exhibition circuit? I want to come and stare at your track!

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That is an excellent model. I spent many hours on the station in the 1960s and it is great to see it in earlier years. I love the north end somersault signals and that scissors crossover with double slip and three-way point arrangement at the entrance to the loco yard.

 

I hope you get the Lincoln bay set up soon because then you will be able to run some of the vintage stock that must have been used on those services in the 1930s. They will make a great comparison with the Coronation racing through.

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This is one inspirational layout. The track work is very good. I like the point work and how you have modified some peco points to look more prototypical of the track work that was done near the station then. I will be watching this layout progress. I have taken to using hanging basket liners for the long grass look.

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Fantastic stuff! Did you manage to fit the super scissors to the standard 11’ 2†(@45mm) track centres? It's something I've always fancied a go at, since it was relatively common in the steam era. I'd be interested to see how you butchered the peco turnouts to fit...

 

Alas no, Dr G-F! I think it's time for the soldering iron and copper clad sleepers to fit a 'super scissors' within 11' 2" track centres. However, my version does fit nicely within the wider 15' 2" ('10 foot') track spacing (ie where there are more than two running lines). You might not have spotted it yet, but there is another one on the layout alongside South Box (there were two there on the real thing!) and this does indeed fit in the space between the Down Fast and Down Relief lines.

 

Jukebox has also asked for some details on point modifications so I'll sort out a further posting in due course but it might be a few weeks yet as the layout isn't set up just at this moment.

 

If I could exhibit Grantham tomorrow then I'd be there! In reality, I think it will be some 18 months minimum before the layout is anything like ready for public display. The pictures showing the full layout were taken in April this year when it was assembled for the first time for test running as a complete layout. Top of my 'to do' list at the moment is:

1) North end Up side bay platforms (yes Jonny777, that's the Lincoln bay), which I believe was the old No.1 platform; there will also be the horse landing (short platform) alongside it, as I'm planning to replicate attachment and detachment of horseboxes from the back of trains.

2) Construct the final depot board, get turntable up and running to give at least the bare bones of an operational MPD

3) Install the two main southbound junction signals at North Box (one for ECML, one for Nottingham lines); both were somersaults in the 1930's. That might not sound like much but the associated wiring and relay panels that go with them will pretty much sort out the remaining interlocking and control logic for North Box. I have to do wiring in little bite-size chunks at a time as it's my least favourite aspect of the hobby (although it can be quite rewarding when it all 'works')

4) At least some basic scenic ground cover between Harlaxton Road bridge and the respective tunnel mouths at the north end of the layout.

 

So, as you can see, plenty to be going at in the immediate future! I might however, if the opportunity presents itself, look to do a further private trial running session again so that might provide an opportunity for viewing. Keep watching this space (but not too hard!)

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Hi les , Its nice to see another layout of grantham from the early 1930s. I been involved in building two layouts of grantham , one of the loco area,

the second the same layout that you are building but of a later date 1954 to 1960.

 

The only thing that i can find is the most of signals are of lower semaphore , black bess at the yard signal box was a lower semaphore signals

upto the early 1950s then converted to upper semaphore till the mid 1960s then removed to colour light signal.

 

The down goods which later had route light was at the time was a 4 doll signals , i have a photo in my collection ,will put on here when i find it

If you need any more help pm me

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

I thought I’d post a few details on the buildings for Grantham, as I’ve been working on a few of them recently. As with other aspects of the layout I’ve tried to find a balance between producing a reasonably correct portrayal and producing them within a fairly quick timescale. So nothing particularly revolutionary here (I think). I also have a few pleas for help as certain aspects of the prototype continue to elude me.

 

Most of the buildings on the ‘Up’ (to London) happily still exist so prototype research has largely involved wandering about with a camera – it’s the details that have changed over the intervening 75 years. From my photographs, I’ve produced drawings from which the models are built.

 

Here is what I call the main station building (the only two-storey building at the station):

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And the model version:

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Several things will be immediately apparent. Firstly, the model is condensed down slightly in a longitudinal direction (ie not all windows have been replicated). As the length of the platforms on the model are somewhat shorter than scale length then I’ve tried to scale each section of the buildings down proportionally so that the overall effect is hopefully convincing. The other noticeable difference is chimneys! I’ve become somewhat obsessive about them with the Grantham project. The modern day building seems to have all the stacks in place but there is not a single pot to be seen so they all must be blanked off. I’ve therefore had to scour all my reference books to try and get an idea of what pots existed. They seemed to have been square section pots, for which I found a supply courtesy of Dart Castings. Also, the original had six stacks in total; I’ve modelled four. Selective compression again.

 

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Here are the next group of buildings (going southwards) and, being part-built reveals my secrets (such as they are). The shell is 1mm card (I was lucky enough to inherit a lifetime’s supply during a depot clear out, hence the printing on them) to which is stuck Metcalfe red brick sheets (the thicker ones). The combination of the two give a reasonable depth to the window and door surrounds. The windows are from some pre-printed acetate sheets (Modelling Windows from www.modellingsupplies.com). With so many different sizes and styles I simply choose the ones that are closest to those required and design the rest of the building around that. All pretty basic stuff really?

 

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Moving further along still and this is the only part that remains of the goods shed

 

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Here is my representation of it, with the surviving end prominent. Again, you can see how I’ve lost one of the window bays to maintain the rate of compression along the whole length of the buildings. Interestingly, this building has still got its chimneys (yet to be painted)!

 

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This is a view of the building from the ‘business end’ (ie where the wagons go in). For this building, I elected to use hardboard to create a more robust structure, given that wagons are going to be shunted into it(!) Plywood or MDF would do just as well. My reason for using hardboard is that the rough side (facing inwards), when painted, gives a fair representation of brickwork (quick and simple again). As the main shed building has now been demolished, all the details shown here have been derived from photographs where possible; and second-guesswork otherwise. This is the back of the building (ie the non-railway, non-visible side) and pictures are virtually impossible to come by. But I’m quite pleased as to the overall look of it (just need to paint those valances). Sods law a clear picture of the original will turn up next week!

 

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And here is the effect when all put together. This is about half the platform length (four feet). The raised area in the centre is where the steps will go for the footbridge. At the right hand end, along the wall of the goods shed where the plain area is, a further set of buildings have yet to be constructed. These are very prominent (along with their various chimney stacks!) in pictures of the south end. The platform surface uses Metcalfe pavement sheets which I always think gives a more pleasing appearance than modern tarmac surfaces (again the research shows that it was flags in former times). I’m fascinated by the different architectural styles of the original, emphasised by the window and door lintels. Reading from left to right are shallow arches, then semi-circular arches, back to more shallow arches and lastly flat lintels with tapered ends. All points to things growing like topsy.

 

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Moving away from the station itself, this group of cottages are at the foot of the station approach road. According to my research these could well be former railway cottages (anybody know for sure?); apparently the building two further along up the approach was the station master’s house.

 

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And here is the model version. A little funny story here. I have prepared some of these buildings as ‘kits’ which I then given to my wife to make up. Having made this one up (her first), we had cause to be at Grantham, walking down the approach road. When we came alongside these houses she did a double take and said she was sure she’d seen them houses somewhere before…before realising that they were the ones she’d made the model of!

 

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Of course I also need some non-railway town buildings and this terrace row is destined for the area behind Harlaxton Road bridge. So far, everything I’ve shown has been scratchbuilt to suit the location but in this case I’m using a sort of kit. It actually came as a free gift with a modelling magazine some years ago (possibly Model RaiI but I’m not absolutely sure) and I’d packed it away in my ‘scenery’ box and forgotten all about it. So in this case, it’s more representative than faithful replica; but it seemed too good not to use. As the originals were demolished many years ago, this doesn’t seem to much of a compromise (anyone know whether the real terrace had a name?)

 

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The ‘kit’ (once again reinforced with my faithful 1mm card) actually only provides for the walls. Chimneys and roofs it seems were optional! I’ve used Wills pan-tile plastic sheets for the latter, this of course being a classic style for the area, as a quick stroll around the town centre readily demonstrates. It appears that a lot of town buildings are also in a lighter shade of brick than the station buildings so the ‘kit’ happily seems to suit this.

 

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Finally, a bit of structure modelling. This is Harlaxton Road bridge. Shown from the town side this view clearly shows the road guide wires – those beneath the bridge obviously needed to be put in place before putting the top on. The side wall of the bridge is MDF on this occasion; however, the interior walls are 9mm plywood. The two inner ones are in fact part of the structure of the baseboard (the plywood continues below the road surface from font to back.

 

post-16151-0-65643600-1343591185_thumb.jpg

Here the internal arches have been put in place, more Metcalfe sheets, again necessary before putting the deck in place. Prior to this, the road surface (plain grey card) has been stuck down. Note how the fifth arch as appears from the front (viewing) side only goes part way into the bridge structure.

 

post-16151-0-26726600-1343591228_thumb.jpg

This view shows the finished effect at the station end of the bridge (what’s that B17 doing on a Nottingham service?). ‘Station Garage’ is I admit pure fantasy (another kit with a modelling magazine). In this case it is permanently fixed to the baseboard and its purpose is to disguise the road system exiting from the front of the layout (vehicles will then run underneath the full length of the loco depot to re-emerge at Springfield Road!)

 

 

Now for a few pleas. Whilst details of the ‘Up’ platform buildings are relatively easy to work out, those on the ‘Down’ (island) platform are proving very tricky, mainly because they’re all long since demolished. I can only snatch the odd detail here and there in the corner of pictures. They seem to be of wood construction (as opposed to the brick of the other platform) but more than that I cannot tell. So if anyone knows any more or has any plans showing details of their construction then that would be most helpful.

 

The other detail I’m unsure about is colour. Most BR views show the paintwork as cream (yellow) and green. www.stationcolours.info states that the LNER colour scheme was stone and deep cream with brown, but in 1937 the brown was replaced by a mid green (right in the middle of my period!). I’m wondering if that in effect remained into BR days or whether the BR era days show a different scheme.

 

Hope some of this is of interest. Happy to hear any comments folks may have.

 

‘Robert’

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