S.A.C Martin Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Originally seen in the Copley Hill Blog, Part 1& Part 2 For anyone modelling the years 1945-1949/50, on the Eastern region of British Railways or locomotives in the exchange trials of 1948, in order to get a fully accurate garter blue Gresley A4 Pacific, you had only one option. A full repaint of Hornby's BR green or BR express passenger blue models. Understandably, this is not a route many wish to go down - Hornby's livery application on their models has always been of a very high standard. The reason for this is simple. Hornby have never offered a variant of their A4 Pacific in garter blue, sans the valances. This throws up a few problems for the modeller intending to make a garter blue A4 without valances: first and foremost, if you decline fully repainting a later era Hornby A4 model, and instead focus your attention on their garter blue models, you can in theory remove the valances and have a fair representation of a 1949 era Gresley A4 Pacific. The crucial details missing would be: 1. The reverser rod, which is not included on valanced models. 2. The lower firebox sides, which are modelled on BR era A4 Pacifics but not (understandably) on the valanced LNER era models. 3. The access hatch below the parabolic curve, added to the A4 Pacifics during the war years for improving maintenance regimes. 4. The BR era smokebox numberplate bracket, crucial for A4 Pacifics modelled in the 1948-50 time period (though of course, as with any class, there are exceptions to this rule). 5. Finally, replacement lamp irons for the lower and upper lamp irons (the latter of which requires repositioning for 1948-50 garter blue A4 Pacifics). This set of etches provides all of the above, as well as providing two specialised cutting tools for removing the streamlined valances to their correct shape. The etches also provide the later AWS Plate, a spare lubricator rod and cabside doors. The kit has been entirely designed by Peter Harvey to my specifications, hence this joint entry. The product is intended for general sale in order to provide modellers with the tools necessary for producing a model of, say, Mallard as no.22 in the 1948 exchange trials, more easily than stripping and repainting a whole model. Stage 1: Base Model The base model chosen for the test conversion is Hornby's single chimney A4, Kingfisher. Easily available on eBay and no doubt at swap meets or shows, this one was a "non runner" which with some soldering was easily returned to working order, to meet our criteria as "guinea pig". Removing the bodyshell is necessary for cutting the valances to shape, so removing it and the lubricator drive must be done first. Now we bring in the etches for the conversion. The first one includes the shaping tool, which you attach to the valances by way of folding over the etched in tab, and attaching to the valances. I attached the valancing shaping tool to the valances through a few careful drops of superglue - since the valances are coming off, it matters not that it ruins the plastic it's attached to! And then ran a sharp scalpel over the length of the shape. Once this was done, I removed the shaping tool carefully, and have soaked it in some meths to clean it off for reuse. Using a set of pliers, I carefully bent the valances at the scalpel cuts, until they came clean away. The valances were filed down using a hand file, and finished off with a wet'n'dry pad. The guinea pig is not as fine as it should be, as I was in somewhat of a hurry - a spare set of test etches have been made available to Graham Muz to look over, and I wanted to be able to produce the guinea pig in what little time I had to prove the theory, and compare the model against an unmodified model, as seen below. Stage 2: Adding the Details Using the second set of etches, you can start to finish off the conversion. I started by adding the missing access hatches on the streamlined casing, and the blank smokebox numberplate bracket (which allows the modeller to add an etched replacement, or put a transfer on for the locomotive of their choice), along with an upper lamp bracket replacement. Then I added the lower firebox side etches, along with the reverser on the left hand side (Hornby don't include this on the models with valances, understandably, as it simply wouldn't be seen under the valances). These can just be folded and super glued into place (as I have done) but to produce a finer finish, solding the etch and then attaching it would be best. It's the reverser to lower firebox arrangement where there needs to be a modification. There is a notch on the left hand side lower firebox bracket for the reverser to go through, but on the etches it is at the bottom, rather than the top, and consequently some modification is required on these etches to allow the reverser to sit in its correct position. A minor discrepancy which didn't take long to sort and also doesn't detract particularly from the quality of the conversion kit. So there we have it; the end of this particular portion of the overall trial. There's a few more bits when I am back at home, but for the moment, that's all to report. Edits will be made to the artwork most certainly prior to being put on sale, but I'd like to see what Mr Muz of this parish makes with his etches before we commit to the production version. Simon Martin & Peter Harvey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Hi Simon, I've been following this little project with interest over on your blog, so I hope you don't mind if I add a comment here with a couple of observations I've made. The front cut-out looks more or less okay to my eyes, but there's something just not right with the front end on the main section. The curve down to the cylinders doesn't actually start until the pair of rivets 2mm behind the first cladding band and makes a graceful curve downwards, rather than what seems to widen above the expansion link (as on your side-on photo in part 1 of your blog). The two "lines" should be concentric up to the aforementioned point. There seems to be quite a sharper angle on yours than what ought to be there too. The line of the curve should actually fall lower down than where you have it. It's a tricky one to get right, but if you have a BR period body to hand, as produced by Hornby, it would be better to use that as a main template for the etches. I don't know how you and Pete worked out the curve for it, but something didn't quite go to plan by the looks of it! Again, I hope you don't mind my passing comment here, but if you're going to be having these marketed for general consumption, you might want to get them "bang on", rather than "almost, but not quite". Also, for those thinking I'm being a "rivet counter", I'm not; just going on the basic shape of things! Perhaps it might be worth doing a second test etch to see how it can be fixed? Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 I'll take that into account when I next speak to Peter about the etches. However I must point out that Peter drew the etches based on the BR era Hornby model. As I have stated previously on the blog and in the above, this particular guinea pig is a bit rough and ready as I was in a hurry to show it; so it's not wholly representative of what the etches can do with a modeller not pushed for time. Thanks in any event for your input. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-farms Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Hi Simon How is this etch coming along? I would find a set most useful to make a 1980's model of Sir Nigel Gresley (my all time favourite loco). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Is the smaller etch going to be available on its own? May i suggest if not too late that you consider adding spectacle plates on to the etch. There is a nice empty square bottom left of the etch !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Ed - thanks for your interest. I'll be in touch. Mick - that's a good spot. I'll ask Peter Harvey if it's possible to add that via email later today. I intend to press on with finishing the quinea pig this weekend, after a timely and much appreciated PM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Interesting thread, looks like you'd have to be VERY careful with that initial scalpel cut… just wondering if there was a way of doing an etch for a negative cutting guide. I bought a late Hornby A4 chassis on a whim, thinking I'd easily be able to find a matching unvalanced body for it but it's not the case, so I was toying with the idea of modifying the old version, of which the valanced version is much easier to find so I'd be looking at this type of mod. I have been warned off the older body though… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Older Hornby A4 (margate made) is nowhere near as good as the china made bodyshell for accuracy. RE the scalpel cut - found that the easy bit. You don't need to "cut" per say - you make a thin incision and them bend it away with pliers. Comes away quite easily. File and rub down with wet n dry paper to finish (didn't quite manage that on the guinea pig). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 I've been having camera troubles, and intend for the summary thread to take a full set of beauty shots of the finished guinea pig; but I thought I'd show the finished model, which was completed in July as 60011 Empire of India. The model is due to be weathered, but I will photograph it as is for the summary thread, prior to completion for Ganwick Curve's stocklist. It will pull a shortened version of The Capitals Limited once weathered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 It's been a while since I updated here. I've had a surprising amount of interest in these etches, so an update is necessary. I'm taking delivery of a further set of test etches from Peter Harvey, which I will use over the coming weeks on a further A4 model, and will showcase the build on my blog. This takes into account previous discussion, including the addition of some etches to represent the cab front window spectacles, and some slight modifications to the artwork for parts to fit more cleanly. Once I've finished with these test etches (and only if no further problems are found), I will be making them available for purchase later in the year. Just want to add my thanks to Peter Harvey for his work in developing this product, and to everyone interested for their patience in the development of these etches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom F Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I really like the weathering on that A4. Typical post war condition. Well Done! Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Very kind of you to say Tom. I've a few more pics, shows how much better the guinea pig is with some weathering. The next one will be much better as I'll have some time (now I'm entirely self employed) to finish it to a better standard than the somewhat rushed job I had to make do with in 60011 for the entry deadline last year. The etched access hatch on the front of the streamlined casing really does blend in very well with some Railmatch garter blue and some weathering, I must say. Very fine item that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 As you know S.A.C. not at all my area of modelling, but what a really innovative solution to your problem. I like the way you and Pete have overcome the conversion dilemma. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Hi Sean, Coming from your good self, that means a lot. Thank you. I've been very surprised at the response to the etches, even to the extent a chap rang the BRM office to get in contact with me! Had a lovely chat with him and he's on a mailing list for when I make these available. I'm currently mulling over the identity of the next A4 test subject. It needs to be single chimney with streamlined corridor tender, for 1948/9. Quite a few to pick from in Yeadons and RCTS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 The weathering on 60011 looks very nice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 The weathering on 60011 looks very nice Thank you kindly James. I think I need to do a bit more practising as I'm not happy with the valve gear and other chassis related bits of weathering myself, but the garter blue really does tend to a wash of weathering powders, airbrush application and some T-cut to finish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Sometimes the frames can be a lot lighter in colour than we realise - colour photos of the period are hard to find I know, but thankfully dirt seems pretty consistent in colour so later photos are just as useful! With the motion try some Klear on it - it may just add a little spark to it. And one thing to try is polishing the piston rod - the area which polished itself can be polished with either very fibne emery paper, bit of a Garryflex block or a fibreglass pencil to bring out a nice silver sheen to it. It'll add a bit of life to the area! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom F Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Very much agree with James's suggestions. Also I think a quick blast along the top with the airbrush to give a touch of smoke stain. I think it's about time you started a weathering thread! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 It's actually quite mucky on the top, but I note looking at my photographs that none of them really show that! I will have a go at brushing them a bit, certainly none of the valve gear methods I've used has really come off for me. I've tried undercoats of enamel dark red and then metalcote with my grot mixture on top, but it always looks too grey to me. Will have a go at the piston rod as it's very obviously wrong! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 You really have created something to fill a nice gap here Simon. I'm now thinking 4498/19 in 1980's guise has just got that bit closer to happening... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Can definitely be done, but as has been explained to me this evening on Twitter, to do SNG you need to conjure up a garter blue tender with beading, as SNG's tender is in fact the one 4472 used on her 100mph and was originally built for the A3s. I genuinely had never noticed this discrepancy. I thought it would be fine for 1948/9, but would you believe...! There's the same tender type on SNG back then in the A4 edition of Locomotives Illustrated, in the full garter blue with red wheelsets. Curly sixes and all. So reluctantly I have to cross 60007 off my list of choices for the next guinea pig, unless I do a repaint of an NRM Scotsman corridor tender I suppose... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 It's been nearly a year since I started developing this conversion kit to make a late 1940s London & North Eastern Railway garter blue A4 Pacific, from a Hornby 1930s A4 Pacific. In that time I've dealt with the first set of trial etches (which you can read by clicking here: Part 1, Part 2), identified some shortcomings and had the artwork modified to take into account these shortcomings. The result was no.60011 Empire of India.Peter Harvey has been terrific throughout the prolonged development process, and I can show here the final set of test etches, prior to testing them on the next "guinea pig". However, you will note a new brass etch amongst the original two sets. This third etch is for adding Cab window spectacles, a suggestion made on the LNER forum and now acted on. The initial thought is that the etches are the right size and shape (a very good start!) and that the removal of the silver painted faux spectacles will allow the brass ones to look the part better. I will start by stripping the printed numbers on the cabsides and smokebox front of this model, before continuing on to repeating the process I worked through last June in terms of removal of the valances, and addition of the etched components. One change I will be making to this build, is to fit the lamp irons as the designer intended (the etch is designed to be used to create the correct shape and design lamp irons, which Hornby's model does not portray).The intended identity of the guinea pig has been chosen, and it will be no.32 Gannet. You will note that the tender behind is not the correct type. The reason for this is that I am waiting on a spare garter blue non corridor tender which I have lent to a friend for use on his exhibition layout of sorts.When that reappears, it will be coupled behind Gannet, which will be the first and only one of my A4s in full LNER livery, albeit with stainless steel lettering and numbering, and no.32 on the smokebox front.The original locomotive survived well into my chosen time period in LNER livery and never actually carried British Railways branding whilst in garter blue. This therefore made her the obvious choice, amongst numbers 14, 25 and 26 (Silver Link, Falcon and Miles Beevor respectively).This makes her the second bird namer in the fleet after Mallard, the ratio of the "special" A4s to the normal A4s being quite out of balance for a normal working timetable to be frank.Once I'm satisfied there are no further changes to be made to the artwork, I intend to make the etches available for sale, both as a set of the three etches together, and the two smallest etches separately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Hi Sean, Coming from your good self, that means a lot. Thank you. Stop it S.A.C. you'll make me blush.....! Mr Harvey has been a busy man of late it seems. He's been doing some bits and bobs for me too and I'm just about to get round to using some etches I commisioned for my Trans - Pennine set. Isn't it great how nowadays we can approach the likes of Peter and Brian Harvey and get our bit's and pieces etched up, thus improving our models. I particularly like those spectacle plates and they improve your already good work on this loco. Smashing weathering too. That's a skill I unfortunately still have to pay for but you seem to have it down to a fine art if you'll pardon the pun. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Looks very good. I will need a few of the Cab window etches!! may I suggest a Nickel Silver version for the Coronation Locos if that hasnt been thought of already please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Thanks Sean and Mick, much appreciated. I will investigate the Nickel silver version Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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