Great West Road - transfers & I’m not talking football!

[7APT7]

Hi Polly

 

The layout plans look great mate, how many modification did you go through before you came to settle on that Plan...

 

Love it, and look forward to seeing it in real life...

 

Jamie

[southern42]

^{Hi Polly}

 

^{The layout plans look great mate, how many modification did you go through before you came to settle on that Plan...}

 

^{Love it, and look forward to seeing it in real life...}

 

^Jamie

 

^{Hi Jamie,}

 

^{I'm delighted you like the track plan but I can't claim much credit for it as it's based on the 1922 track plan on page 60 of 'An historical survey of Great Western Sheds' by E. Lyons. I've tried drawing various versions though without too much success}

 

^{I have reduced the shed to 3 roads instead of 6 and the branchline to a single road instead of two. I wanted to keep the passing loop at the coal stage and a run round to the turntable for the ash bin. I'm not sure if there is room for the siding to the sand house and I need to get in a boiler house.}

 

^{I've tried to keep to the plan up to the footbridge where the line then joins the track to the mainline which I do not intend to model - its electrified now. That came as a bit of a shock to the system when all that happened; I had always associated overheads with Euston, and the Southern I travelled on for three years back in the 70s was third rail, much less intrusive in the landscape.}

 

^{...and while I've been checking up on the published track plan, I've just noticed a 'flaw' in mine. A slight modification might give the TT a little bit more room see below:}

 

 

^{Comments appreciated}

Edited September 2, 2012 by southern42

[7APT7]

Hi Polly

 

It looks very good, have you made a start on the building of any part of it yet...?

 

Photos Progress is what we want to see... if that is possible.

 

Jamie

[southern42]

Baseboard kit arrived. Just waiting for the carpenter to put it together...then we can get going on some photos.

[7APT7]

Hi Polly

 

I look forward to see the Layout progress, i'm as excited as you I guess, and will get to see it some day soon hopefully...

 

Jamie

[southern42]

Hi Polly

 

I look forward to see the Layout progress, i'm as excited as you I guess, and will get to see it some day soon hopefully...

 

Jamie

 

Will have to build travel-in-car into it from the start and bring it over to the Unit before the track is permanently laid and 'play trains' to test it.

[trains12]

Hi Polly

Just found the thread. Itis looking good. Unit will be clear in the next few weeks after Glen Gillie has been to Model Rail so we can get it up together with Rays and do some work .(sorry play trains)

Peter

[tender]

Here's a photo of Class 121 (Bubblecar) we picked up at Porthmadog 2012 earlier this year. Fitted a DCC Decoder and played around with the DCC decoder settings to get it to run nicely before fitting the Head/Tail/Interior lighting unit from Black Cat Technology. Polly set it up on 'Avago' for a photo shoot when we noticed a problem, where's 2A80 SOUTHHALL? May be someone reading this can shed (excuse the pun) light on it, or is it just a typo?

 

 

Ray.

 

Edit: Out of interest the coach number is W55028

Edited September 5, 2012 by tender

[southern42]

where's 2A80 SOUTHHALL?

 

 

There's a photo on flikr of the DEPOT end of a bublecar at Southall (marked L120):

http://www.flickr.co...N07/5176316706/

 

and one with speed whiskers behind the Brentford branch goods train on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia....-Brooksbank.jpg

[7APT7]

Hi Polly

 

The Photo is good, the linked phot are good to, but cant help you on that unles Peter can...

 

Regarding the lighting unit from Black Cat Technology, does it look good, would you recommend them and at what price per coach/car...?

 

Jamie

[southern42]

Hi Polly

 

The Photo is good, the linked phot are good to, but cant help you on that

 

 

Problem solved. I've decided that 'SOUTHHALL' on the model just has one too many 'H's. To confirm this, here is a link to a photo of a bubble car (with speed whiskers) in a siding off the mainline running past Southall Shed: 2A80 name spelt 'SOUTHALL':

http://www.geograph....k/photo/2482289. Will remedy in due course.

 

[The down train train in the photo is headed by the first Hawksworth 'Modified Hall' - No. 6959 'Peatling Hall']

 

News of our day out, yesterday, to follow (didn't get home til late last night) - just need to sort out the photos and PM our honourable host, first.

Polly

Edited September 9, 2012 by southern42

[southern42]

Hi All,

 

Saturday (8 Sept), we had a great day at Didcot Railway Centre and the weather couldn't have been better. It was a non-running day and we were told that we could just wander around so, in the warm sunshine, that's just what we did.

 

The morning was spent trying to take everything in and taking photos to help with the building and running of Great West Road.

 

Usually, you would count yourself lucky to see one 'star' attraction. Here, there were loads and they were the reason for our visit: steam railmotor, trailer and railmotor shed (to the de^sign of the one that existed at Southall), diesel railcar No. 22, autotrailer 190 and the 14xx No. 4866 (aka 1466). That was just for starters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The coal stage was excellent. Getting to grips with the scale of these things was amazing in itself and taking a moment to imagine tipping tons of coal into a Castle (or a Hall at Southall) with the rain lashing down and the wind blasting through – is that in summer or winter? But that apart, how long was that steep ramp? Would I have enough room on my layout? Well, according to the number of strides Ray took back down to the bottom and conversion to 1:76 scale, I guesstimate, we can.

 

 

 

Up the other end of the site was a Southern, yes, Southern turntable. Ray's subsequent modelling idea: take the locomotive platform off the Peco turntable and I would have the overhanging walkway, with safety fencing, either side of the track that sits on top of the arched brick structure at the end of the Southall ramp. I think he may have been joking but creating something similar, without wrecking an expensive piece of kit, would be preferable.

 

 

 

In between was the engine shed: more measuring up, this time the outside inspection pits (in strides, of course), thinking how to model worn down concrete floors, photographing the smoke hoods, and getting the feel of a shed with doors open at both ends. Southall's doors remained open during busy winter nights when 'frostfires' burnt to prevent pipes (and workers) freezing. Now there’s a modelling idea: Mid December, clear night sky, Christmas lights on the fir tree at the factory gate and tinsel, left over from the trainspotters’ Christmas party, on my 1466. But I’ll have to research it.

 

After lunch, we met up with our (rmweb) host who had invited us to Didcot. If we thought the morning was brilliant...the afternoon was even better. We were let in to see the inside of railcar No. 22, the steam railmotor and the railcar shed. The Ratio Carriage Shed (Ratio image below), with a bit of cut and shut, should make a suitable donor for Great West Road

 

 

We also had a fascinating tour taking in buildings and rolling stock and parts the general public can't normally reach. This included the carriage shed, lifting shop (Southall's repair shop had a travelling lifting crane) and the locomotive works where we met other volunteers and saw work being carried out on allsorts from small parts to big locos including Projects 4079 “Pendennis Castle” and 4709 (Southall had No. 4707 which is on my wish list, [EDIT] and also 4705).

 

http://www.didcotrai...jects.html#4079

http://www.didcotrai...ews/latest.html

 

 

 

 

I, briefly, wondered if there was a RTR Castle I could renumber and rename to 4079 “Pendennis Castle” in GWR livery but more to see and consider in modelling terms: machinery, tools and equipment; wood, metal and fabric; paint in chocolate or cream; ex-catering tins labelled “Baked Beans” full of anything but; and “This is where we work so watch where you put your feet!”

 

Yet more photography, measuring, and mental modelling but all things come to an end. Well, not quite. We were introduced to the fifth member of the Fab Four, the one who was responsible for the photos of the four “schoolboys” on Southall footbridge and on the rescued 14xx. He will duly appear on Great West Road, camera in hand.

 

http://www.didcotrai...ation/gws.html

 

A great day. A great place. Thanks to everyone who made the day so enjoyable.

 

I must also thank you, the rmwebbers who have kindly expressed your thoughts on this thread and provided me with the information I need to get started on Great West Road and get the most out of our visit to Didcot Railway Centre.

 

The last word?

 

Hi

Sorry to go off topic but is there much in the book about Ranelagh Bridge? Ive been thinking about getting it but but am a bit unsure whether its any good for my project.

Thanks

Steve

 

And guess what! There, in the museum, in the first display cabinet by the entrance door, was a photo of the wide-span Ranelagh Bridge and, while I was reading all about it, Ray had got half way round the exhibits and had come by an old annotated map of our corner of Wales on which the Festiniog Railway is described as a “toy railway”. Hmmmm.

 

 

So, there we are: A grand day out at Didcot.

 

Polly

Edited September 24, 2012 by southern42

[JeffP]

Sounds great, and what a railway centre SHOULD be like, if not for H&S concerns, they all would be.

 

I've had two VASTLY different experiences at preserved railway sites: the first a fantastic day out at the Bluebell circa 1985, where, walking through the shed, I could almost feel as I did in steam days. Everyone was helpful and informative and the place has left a lasting GOOD memory, sadly it's too far for me to go regularly.

 

The second was at a site I won't name, but on the first, off-chance, visit I was refused permission to photograph the diesels I wanted, in detail, by an officious volunteer.

On ringing to find out if another visit would be more productive, I was treated with more courtesy by the general manager, told it should never have happened and given a number of someone to ring to arrange to go again.

This I did, but on arrival, my contact wasn't there, and once again, I was refused any sort of entry, even though I offered to pay for membership for myself and my 19 year old son. We were told that they needed to move some stock, treated brusquely and even rudely and I will never go back. Again, it was just volunteers who at first refused me, but they then involved the general manager who, of course, backed them up. I pleaded for someone to accompany me to the locos I needed to photograph, I had my own hi-viz, but all to no avail.

 

TWO tries, TWO 200 mile round trips and not one foot set on site. Yet they need to attract people to the site to stay afloat. Go figure.

[southern42]

Here's progress on the baseboards to date.

 

The first two were made from module kits from Brilliant Baseboards before the sad loss of the then proprietor Ray Regan. These were meant for another project but as additional modules became unavailable before we had enough, the project was shelved.

Great West Road grew out of an idea on how to make use of them. We had a 1200mm x 600mm module and a 600mm x 600mm module giving a total 1800mm x 600mm board (6ft x 2ft in old money). Not a lot, but better than nothing.

 

Kit of parts before assembly

 

1200 + 600mm boards bolted together.

 

We then heard through the 'small suppliers' section here on RMWeb that Brilliant Baseboards was in new ownership and a further 1200 x 600mm module was ordered.

This gives Great West Road a more respectable 2400 x 600mm (8 x 2 ft) scenic section plus a 600 x 600mm (2ft x2 ft) fiddle yard, traverser or sector plate making 10ft x 2ft overall.

[southern42]

Cracking idea! I can also recommend John Drayton "on the footplate" as a good description of shed life on the GWR.

Looking forward to watching this develop.

 

Eventually found said book - at the Manchester show today. Got stuck right into the chapter on Ebbw Junction Shed in Service Station over fish n chips on the way home. Magic! The book, not the fish n chips.

 

Also, bought High Level's chassis kit and Alan Gibson wheels etc. for 14xx - a first chassis build for Ray. I also believe there is a detailing pack available from Mainly Trains.

 

Job for me - build the Ratio loco lifting hoist and rolling underframe for the Repair Shop (my first kit since the Airfix Apollo rocket back in year blur blur blur). Need to know how big to make the repair shop before I can finalise a track plan [EDIT. Drawings and dimensions of the real thing in Hawkins and Reeve].

 

Comments welcome, as always.

Thanks for reading.

Edited October 6, 2012 by southern42

[southern42]

Problem solved. I've decided that 'SOUTHHALL' on the model just has one too many 'H's. To confirm this, here is a link to a photo of a bubble car (with speed whiskers) in a siding off the mainline running past Southall Shed: 2A80 name spelt 'SOUTHALL':

http://www.geograph....k/photo/2482289. Will remedy in due course.

 

 

Hi All,

 

On the home front, I'm still hoping to include a station platform for the Branchline in front of a fiddleyard and was at a loss for a name and then had a brain wave in response to the above named loco. So, let me introduce you to my proposed station: South Hall (correct pronunication, according to Sis: sou' fall).

 

Edit. And no need to change name on loco bubble car

 

On the front line: I have the Ratio Locomotive Lifting Hoist and Rolling Underframe kits which I hope to start building this weekend (my first Ratio kit )

 

Edit. And there's a how-to-weather in Model Rail No. 175, pp.54-57, too. Mine wont be yellow though. Any suggestions as to what colour it was at Southall (pre-BR) in terms of today's paint tins? I do have the photo of Didcot's hoist for reference, if all else fails

 

Will post when I have some photos.

 

Any comments or advice before I start / as I progress most welcome.

 

Thanks fro reading.

 

Polly

Edited October 13, 2012 by southern42

[southern42]

Hi Polly

Beware Southall shed was rebuild 1953/4 so need to check if the wheel lift was in place before and after these dates a lot of equipment was removed at the time, it was the only part of the shed I never went in as a lad and have no information in my book collection to help you, perhaps a phone call to the museum might help.

Regards 81C

 

Thanks for your response 81C.

 

In Great Western Railway Sheds London Division, the engine workshop is described thus:

 

Details of the shed forwarded to Swindon in 1901...a 75ft pit in the repair shop. This [repair shop], 'roofed in saw tooth' like the shed proper, and slated on timber principals, stood some eight feet [

24mm in 00 gauge

] above the main part of the building, to accommodate a travelling lifting crane.'

 

So I guess the question is: Did the lifting crane survive until the repair shop was replaced?

[southern42]

Hi All,

 

An update on progress.

 

Ray is progressing at great speed on the 14xx (see link to this in my signature, below)

and I took the plunge and ordered a 9F from Grimy Times: identity will be revealed when it arrives.

 

I also made an impulse buy at the Warrington Show:

a class 33 West Coast Railway (33207 Jim Martin) to go with mainline steam stock for recent period.

Photos of the prototype:

http://cumbria.smugmug.com/keyword/33207#!i=1387985812&k=K3td6Hs

 

More soon....

[NunneyCastle5029]

if you dont want an old airfix pendennis castle the new Hornby castle is a superb model and there is even on in gw livery altho it is named tintagel castle however it shouldnt be too difficult to rename to pendennis with the small brass name and number plates that are available from: http://www.modelmasterdecals.com/GW_Castle460_1.php hope this helps

[southern42]

if you dont want an old airfix pendennis castle the new Hornby castle is a superb model and there is even on in gw livery altho it is named tintagel castle however it shouldnt be too difficult to rename to pendennis with the small brass name and number plates that are available from: http://www.modelmast...Castle460_1.php hope this helps

 

Thanks NunneyCastle5029

Much appreciated.

I have a Tintagel (love it) and renaming it may have to be the solution - cheaper than buying another one.

Were there any detail differences between Tintagel and Pendennis that would need to be changed on the model?

 

My big problem is that I can only find evidence of Castles at Southall Shed in BR days and at the Railway Centre (Pendennis and Nunney Castle) though Old Oak Common had quite a few GWR Castles including 5029 of course.

Were Castles ever seen at Southall Shed in GWR days?

 

Time for nightcap and bed.

Night all.

[The Stationmaster]

 

My big problem is that I can only find evidence of Castles at Southall Shed in BR days and at the Railway Centre (Pendennis and Nunney Castle) though Old Oak Common had quite a few GWR Castles including 5029 of course.

Were Castles ever seen at Southall Shed in GWR days?

I would be surprised if any were seen there on a regular basis - Southall was basically a freight and local passenger shed so would be very unlikely to have seen any regular working in of 'Castles' and certainly would not have had any allocated pre-war. I think they only really got there once Old Oak had been closed to steam.

[Castle]

 

I have a Tintagel (love it) and renaming it may have to be the solution - cheaper than buying another one.

Were there any detail differences between Tintagel and Pendennis that would need to be changed on the model?

 

 

Hi Polly,

 

Just caught up with this one - sorry! You could get away with using Tintagel as Pendennis but with the proviso that technically the front end is wrong. The early Castles had a narrow Star style version of the front end (known as the 'Vauxhall' style after the pre WWII cars from that manufacturer) that No. 5011 has. The reason for this was that they also had the narrow front main frames which were joggled inwards to provide clearance for the front bogie wheels while cornering. On the later ones the frames were straight front to back and had a dished section to provide the clearance. It also depends upon the time period of your layout as to whether she should have the fireman's side tool tunnel on the running plate. We think she gained this in the mid to late 1930s. If she is modelled with the tool tunnel then the brass trim on the front edges of the cab need to be either removed or painted out.

 

I can't quite see the position of the rear sanders in any of the on line pictures. Dependant on time period again, they could be in one of three different places for No. 4079! She is one of these engines that, despite serving for 40 years, was largely untouched but had lots of detail differences throughout her time. Even more if you count her preservation career too!

 

I hope this helps!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[NunneyCastle5029]

Hi Polly,

 

Just caught up with this one - sorry! You could get away with using Tintagel as Pendennis but with the proviso that technically the front end is wrong. The early Castles had a narrow Star style version of the front end (known as the 'Vauxhall' style after the pre WWII cars from that manufacturer) that No. 5011 has. The reason for this was that they also had the narrow front main frames which were joggled inwards to provide clearance for the front bogie wheels while cornering. On the later ones the frames were straight front to back and had a dished section to provide the clearance. It also depends upon the time period of your layout as to whether she should have the fireman's side tool tunnel on the running plate. We think she gained this in the mid to late 1930s. If she is modelled with the tool tunnel then the brass trim on the front edges of the cab need to be either removed or painted out.

 

I can't quite see the position of the rear sanders in any of the on line pictures. Dependant on time period again, they could be in one of three different places for No. 4079! She is one of these engines that, despite serving for 40 years, was largely untouched but had lots of detail differences throughout her time. Even more if you count her preservation career too!

 

I hope this helps!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

 

yes totaly agree, mite be worth getting intouch with DRC and see if they have any photos of Pendennis in service for the period you are modeling, however in 4mm oogauge you probably wont need to modyfy the frames inless you realy want too, but other details obove the sole plate would be more obvious therefore should be changed as appropriate to that loco at the time period given that is of course if you want to go the whole hog as it were to make the engine completly correct

 

hope it helps

[stadman]

Here's a photo of Class 121 (Bubblecar) we picked up at Porthmadog 2012 earlier this year. Fitted a DCC Decoder and played around with the DCC decoder settings to get it to run nicely before fitting the Head/Tail/Interior lighting unit from Black Cat Technology. Polly set it up on 'Avago' for a photo shoot when we noticed a problem, where's 2A80 SOUTHHALL? May be someone reading this can shed (excuse the pun) light on it, or is it just a typo?

 

 

Ray.

 

Edit: Out of interest the coach number is W55028

 

2A80 is train headcode. They are still in use although not displayed.

L120 is a ste number. L = London; P = Plymouth; B = Bristol & C = Cardiff

[Castle]

 

yes totaly agree, mite be worth getting intouch with DRC and see if they have any photos of Pendennis in service for the period you are modeling, however in 4mm oogauge you probably wont need to modyfy the frames inless you realy want too, but other details obove the sole plate would be more obvious therefore should be changed as appropriate to that loco at the time period given that is of course if you want to go the whole hog as it were to make the engine completly correct

 

hope it helps

 

Hi Nunney,

 

My avatar picture isn't just for decoration! I am a member of the No. 4079 Restoration Team* and I also set up the digital historic archive for the locomotive. As soon as I know when the good lady is aiming her Pendennis Castle I will advise. How is good old No. '29?

 

Having looked at my model of No. 5051 (Earl Cairns with the lubricator removed and so on...), I agree about the lower frames as Hornby have larger cut outs for the bogie to swing around in. It might be much more trouble than it is worth. The sanding boxes are another signature item and on No. 4079 they originally fed the fronts of the first and second coupled wheel sets. Then (as per Nos. 5029 & 5051 as built) they fed the front of the first and the rear of the last coupled wheels with the boxes at the rear hidden behind the cab sides. Finally (as per No. 4079 today) the same but with the rear boxes exposed below the cab sides. Taper and parallel buffers are to watch as are the wheel sets as the balance weights are different on older and newer sets. Ironically No. 5051 has the early ones and No. 4079 has the later in preservation! It is probably not worth messing with this too much unless you are really set on total accuracy as this can easily be explained by exchanges during overhaul.

 

There is a lot more to it than this but once we know, we can advise further! As I said, No. 4079 is a tricky beast as she served for so long but had many subtle little changes...

 

All the best,

 

Castle

 

* Usual proviso about opinions being mine and not necessarily that of the GWS.