Great West Road - transfers & I’m not talking football!

[M.I.B]

Only just discovered this posting. Thanks and good luck.

 

My plan and purchases centre around a semi fictitious mainline to the East of you - 4 track mainline, with a lower level of shed and goods yard with a furniture depositary and brewery on the corners outside the mainline. 100% urban - not a blade of grass or a flock tree in sight.

 

My grandfather ran the Hayes Nestles factory during WW2 - as a senior food chemist he was in a reserved occupation. I know the stretch of mainline well, having lived in Notting Hill and keeping my cars in a farmer's barn in Langley, I traveled that stretch a lot.

 

Thanks for sharing. I'll keep dropping by when the internet allows me to.

[southern42]

My grandfather ran the Hayes Nestles factory during WW2 - as a senior food chemist he was in a reserved occupation.

 

Lovely to 'meet' you here. Thanks for posting a few words.

 

Lots of my family worked at Nestles (proper jobs). I merely did one college vacation summer there in Bar Wrap but I did enjoy the annual summer fete days when I was a kid. I even came 2nd in one of their Baby Competitions - a long, long time ago.

 

The thing I like about Southall is the amount of parkland - an excuse, maybe, to have a row of trees along the backscene. And it would be great to be able to scenic in the gasometer and water tower (now apartments, of course) somehow.

 

"semi fictitious mainline to the East of you"

Are we talking Ealing or closer to Paddington? It was BR Blue when I last travelled along those lines and I often got off at Ealing Broadway and jumped on the Tube. I remember loads of girls in school uniform and boaters getting on and off at some point but their school name is lost to my memory.

 

I'll be posting more on the layout very shortly.

Till then...

[southern42]

Many thanks Castle, Nunny and Stationmaster for your interesting comments on Pendennis Castle.

I think it’s time to say something of the time period of Great West Road

 

Layout operation 1

The initial plan was to run GWR in order of livery with some wartime ‘surprises’.

It could possibly extend into early BR before the days (post 1953) when BR knocked down old buildings and put up new ones and extended the track an awful long way off the edge of my scaled down baseboard – future fiddle yard extension(?) for:

 

Layout operation 2

The idea of a second period of operation came about with the story of ‘1466’ in 1961. I was 11 then and in Form 1F (F=First floor) and knew absolutely nothing about it. Anyway, I like the idea of having four lads train spotting on the footbridge or having their photo taken for the magazine.

 

So the plan is to have a different operating session based on the period 1961-64/5.

 

The track plan and the coaling ramp will have to stay, the coal stage being still there, of course. However, I’m thinking that the GWR shed could be swapped over to a model based on the BR shed, with its very distinctive BR roof and chimneys, which still stands today. Add a GWS (Great Western Society) sign and a few of its acquisitions…Castle Pendennis seems a good one - in withdrawn ex-BR livery (1964) or in her new Great Western preservation livery (1965):? What do you reckon?

 

http://www.flickr.co...N04/6467672135/

 

Layout operation 3

It is a short step from that to running a Railway Centre with Mainline steam locos… Add some popular pristine steam models (slightly weathered), a few diesels, crews in bright orange safety gear, the odd photographer, dignitary and railway official, and a bit of weed growth, and you’re off.

 

There is a video on Youtube of ‘Britannia’ shunting at Southall from the Railway Centre to Southall Station Platform 1 and reversing back out onto the mainline though any train I may be able to form won’t be anywhere near that long. The gradient below the footbridge becomes obvious as the coaches move forward.

 

http://www.youtube.c...XXDsk&vq=medium

 

So, this is a long term project...

 

[i've started on the Ratio roller underframe for the lifting hoist at last. More fiddly than I thought but have the tools to do the job. More when I make some significant progress.]

Edited October 30, 2012 by southern42

[Castle]

Hi Polly,

 

Ironically enough, very early in her preservation career, No. 4079 was based at Southall in the mid 1960s while under the ownership of Mike Higson! She didn't actually become an official GWS machine until 2000.

 

The livery on Tintagel Castle is right for this version although the lining on her frames and wheels got more and more extreme as time went on in preservation (culminating in the red frames!) and I can't see what is on the Hornby offering on line. The only things to do to get a very good approximation of 'her ladyship' would be the narrowing of the front inside cylinder cover, the painting out of the vertical brass strips on the front cab edges and the addition of the fire iron tool tunnel. Fairly easy stuff!

 

Oh, you may want to renumber and rename her too... The set I have is from Modelmaster.

 

All the best,

 

Castle

Edited October 30, 2012 by Castle

[southern42]

I hadn't read the following entry properly - it refers to its appearance at one of Great Western Society's open days.

 

Quote from :http://en.wikipedia....endennis_Castle

Early preserved years

Acquired from BR in 1964 by Mike Higson, she was moved to Southall Railway Centre and appeared at one of the Great Western Society's first open days in 1965. After then being purchased by a partnership of the Honourable John Gretton and Sir Bill McAlpine, the locomotive was moved in 1967 to the former GWR depot at Didcot, taking up residence in the disused lifting shop. As the Great Western Society assembled and moved its collection there, the Castle made rare excursions at Didcot, and made her next public appearance in 1971.

 

Thanks for pointing my error out. out my error [fingers not keeping up with the brain. Yeah, right.]

 

Polly

Edited October 30, 2012 by southern42

[The Stationmaster]

And here is 4079 at the GWS open day at Taplow

 

Edited October 30, 2012 by The Stationmaster

[Castle]

Hi Mike,

 

That is a cracking image! I presume you were there? I love the high security fence keeping the visitors away from the main line...

 

Most of that simply wouldn't be allowed today but the one thing that still is that we allow visitors to safely get up close to the collection and that is something the GWS is both very careful of and very proud of.

 

In a way I am glad that I don't have to struggle in the same way as the early railway preservation pioneers did but I am also sorry that I missed what looked like halcyon days. It must have been quite something to be part of that pioneering spirit and of that founding era. I am however very glad that I missed the end of steam on BR - the pictures are depressing enough.

 

Cheers and back on topic for G. W. Road.

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[The Stationmaster]

Hi Mike,

 

That is a cracking image! I presume you were there? I love the high security fence keeping the visitors away from the main line...

Castle

I was there - that was how I took the pic (despite rather awkward light and - and as can be seen - the crowds on the 'safe' side of the loco making cab visits.

[NunneyCastle5029]

Hi Nunney,

 

My avatar picture isn't just for decoration! I am a member of the No. 4079 Restoration Team* and I also set up the digital historic archive for the locomotive. As soon as I know when the good lady is aiming her Pendennis Castle I will advise. How is good old No. '29?

 

Having looked at my model of No. 5051 (Earl Cairns with the lubricator removed and so on...), I agree about the lower frames as Hornby have larger cut outs for the bogie to swing around in. It might be much more trouble than it is worth. The sanding boxes are another signature item and on No. 4079 they originally fed the fronts of the first and second coupled wheel sets. Then (as per Nos. 5029 & 5051 as built) they fed the front of the first and the rear of the last coupled wheels with the boxes at the rear hidden behind the cab sides. Finally (as per No. 4079 today) the same but with the rear boxes exposed below the cab sides. Taper and parallel buffers are to watch as are the wheel sets as the balance weights are different on older and newer sets. Ironically No. 5051 has the early ones and No. 4079 has the later in preservation! It is probably not worth messing with this too much unless you are really set on total accuracy as this can easily be explained by exchanges during overhaul.

 

There is a lot more to it than this but once we know, we can advise further! As I said, No. 4079 is a tricky beast as she served for so long but had many subtle little changes...

 

All the best,

 

Castle

 

* Usual proviso about opinions being mine and not necessarily that of the GWS.

 

Hi Castle

 

aye good old 5029 is doing alrite shes had a lot of work done this year as such hasnt been seen by many only those of us who lookafter her (inc myself)

as you said there were soo many changes and "improvements" made to pritty much every locomotive throughout its career its very hard to make a true accurate model

unless you have all the info and are only modeling a certain time period where the loco is like that.

 

cracking shot at Taplow

 

Nunney

[M.I.B]

 

 

"semi fictitious mainline to the East of you"

Are we talking Ealing or closer to Paddington?

 

 

 

Closer to Paddington - somewhere where my 9707 can take MICAs off to Faringdon, the ALES and GRANOs can sit outside a brewery, and all of the CONFLATs can converge at a depository - there were plenty under what's now the A40 elevated. A fair bit of license will be applied.

[southern42]

Hi All,

 

A small query.

 

I notice that 14xx #4866, below, has a piece of equipment that is not on its sister, #1450.

Info, anyone, please?

 

Edited November 11, 2012 by southern42

[Bulleidnutter]

It covers the clacks. Or GWR top feed to be precise. 1450 may have backhead clacks rather than conventional top feed.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Bulleidnutter

[southern42]

Many thanks for your prompt reply, Bulleidnutter, that makes sense now and thanks for looking in on my thread.

I am still pretty much a novice, so learning as I go along.

Everyone's contribution is much appreciated.

[southern42]

Hi all,

 

A new resident for GWR arrived today. This is 43xx 4331 allocated to Southall (SHL) 1925 (Old Oak Common 1930).

 

Pre-owned, 4331 will undergo some remedial work (another chassis) in the hands of Tender - new thread in Kitbuilding and Sratchbuildng to follow.

 

[southern42]

Hi All.

A bit of a request, this time.

 

I've just searched 'gwr wagons' on Amazon for a book that I could use for pictorial evidence for weathering my few wagons.

 

As I suspected there are loads of books on the subject but I'd be really grateful if anyone could indicate which one(s) would be helpful (with Christmas coming up and all).

 

I'm looking to create coal and goods trains to go along the branchline. The few photos I have found via google have vans and wagons disappearing into the distance/off shot behind a prominent loco so pictures of brake vans, in particular, seem scarce and I have noticed that coal trains had wagons with the lettering looking surprisingly still white (as opposed to dirty).

 

I shall have to use some BR photos, too, for the colour.

 

This leads to a few related questions that I would hope a book may answer:

 

Were coal wagons and vans regularly cleaned/painted considering how many there were or were the 'cleaner' looking wagons newer ones and how long would they stay looking 'newish'? I have noticed that there was quite a mixture of 'weatheredness' on any one train!

 

No doubt wagons needed repair at some time or other. Was there a maintenance schedule, for instance or was it needs must (crisis management)?

 

I'd better stop there in case I did a hole too great...

 

Thanks for keeping up with me and I would appreciate your advice or suggestions.

Edited December 3, 2012 by southern42

[southern42]

Hi All,

 

Below is one of my favourite photos on flikr.

 

Southall MPD (81C), 3rd March 1963

 

 

 

Early BR livery

:

14XX

0-4-2T 1474 (Southall 1961-1962; Slough 81B 1963; moved to Gloucester, Barnwood and Horton Road. Withdrawn 4 may 1964)

Late BR livery

:

6967 Willesley

Hall

,

7015 Carn Brea

Castle

and

9F

2-10-0 92240

 

http://www.flickr.co...els/7561615192/

 

And here is my 14xx in G W R livery that Ray has nearly finished.

 

 

Last jobs on the to do list:

 

 

Fit glazing

Put coal in bunker

Put lid on

Finish painting the buffer beam

 

Your comments are most welcome.

Edited December 10, 2012 by southern42

[7APT7]

Hi Poly

 

Hope you are both keeping well...

 

Great Detailing work on the Steam Loco you are working on there... are these in preperation for any show apart from Llanberis in February time..'ish, Peter did tell me the date the other day but have forgoten...Doh...!

 

Great to see Photos...

 

Jamie

[southern42]

Morning all,

Hope you're not all frozen up.

 

On railway matters, can anyone help me out and give me an indication on how the head and tail lamps would have been carried by the 14xx.

 

In the photo on the link below, on 1466 (prototype 1934), the (red) tail lamp is centre.

 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1692.htm

 

On 1450 at Dunstan (preservation) the (white) head lamps are on the left and below the chimney.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesclay/4369541625/

 

1466 (and any future 14xxs) will have the possible duties on Great West Road:

Branchline work on autotrain (and goods train?)

Shunting steam railmotor (hoping that I get one

Performance on shed

 

What governed the use of red and white lamps? I refer here to the lamp rather than the light. Was the red one used solely as a tail lamp?

 

I've got the GWR handbook on my Christmas wishlist, so hoping I can pick up a lot of details from that, but in the meantime, Ray wants to get the lamps stuck on (in the most relevant position as they wont be removable for reverse or different type of trips).

 

Thanks all. Look forward to your comments.

 

Polly

[Kev_Lewis]

The red bodied loco lamps were replaced by white bodied lamps on the GWR in 1934. They were the last of the big four to make the change from red bodies to white bodies.

 

White bodied lamps with red lenses were tail lamps, usually on the last coach of the train. With the exception of yard or station pilot locos which would display one red lamp over one buffer and one white over the other buffer.

 

An explaination of GWR headlamp codes can be found here: http://www.greatwest....uk/basic16.htm

 

A 14xx on a passenger service would probably carry a Group 2 headcode. One lamp at the top of the smokebox door.

 

Oh and the first link above is a photo of a 517 class. Your 1466 entered service in March of 1936 as number 4866 and became 1488 in late 1946. By which time 517 class has long been scrapped.

 

Hope this helps.

[Bulleidnutter]

It depends on what lamps the crew took out of the store before taking up their turn.

The caption under 1466 is exactly what it says. Its the tail light but more than likely a bog standard loco headlamp with a red shade in.

The preservation shot is a headcode for a partially fitted freight.

[southern42]

Hi Jamie,

Avago will be at Llanberis in February. I’m thinking that I could run the Warley Toad with a few passengers behind 1466. We’ll see how they run together.

Are you going to the Canolfan (near the harbour) on Saturday? 10.30-4.00. Four layouts plus trade according to the add in one of the mags.

 

Hi Kev and Bulleidnutter,

Many thanks for your comments, they’re most helpful.

And thanks for the link. I’ve since located the following link as well with GWR codes:

http://www.uksteam.info/gwr/hcodes.htm.

I can see this is going to be like learning the highway code.

 

To add to the interest, below is a link to the Didcot 14xx as 1466 in GWR livery.

It appears 1466 is carrying a red bodied lamp on top of the smokebox as opposed to the handrail as on other 14xxs or did that practice change over time? I also see there is a red bodied side lamp.

Are these lamps depicting GWR practice before 1466's time or something else? Could I ‘get away with this’ / set up a feasible situation on Great West Road or would it be too unprototypical?

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12634019@N08/3237700564/

 

Thanks again, all.

Polly

[Kev_Lewis]

To add to the interest, below is a link to the Didcot 14xx as 1466 in GWR livery.

It appears 1466 is carrying a red bodied lamp on top of the smokebox as opposed to the handrail as on other 14xxs or did that practice change over time? I also see there is a red bodied side lamp.

Are these lamps depicting GWR practice before 1466's time or something else? Could I ‘get away with this’ / set up a feasible situation on Great West Road or would it be too unprototypical?

 

http://www.flickr.co...N08/3237700564/

 

Thanks again, all.

Polly

 

That's a nice photo of 1466 on the turntable at Didcot. I don't see any reason why the chaps at 81E have to be 100% accurate all of the time. Especially something as small as the colour of thier lamps.

 

How far you go with being prototypical is up to you. However there always seems to be someone at exhibitions who will point out anything that's incorrect.

[The Stationmaster]

 

An explaination of GWR headlamp codes can be found here: http://www.greatwest....uk/basic16.htm

Alas that is not GWR headlamp codes (in fact it is noted as coming from a 1961 source and even then the descriptions are incorrect there being no such thing ever as 'Group 1, Group 2 etc in headlamp codes).

 

The lamps shown would have been Class C in GWR headcode terms which applied until May 1950 at which time it became Class D. GWR Class C covered perishable and livestock trains composed entirely of vacuum fitted stock or a part fitted express freight, livestock or perishable train with the vacuum brake operative on no less than one third of the vehicles.

BR Class D as in May 1950 covered only part fitted express freight, livestock or perishable train with the vacuum brake operative on no less than one third of the vehicles.

Somehow I don't think the lamping was representative of either of those.

[Bulleidnutter]

The lamp sitting on the running plate is the other lamp. Locos always had to have two lamps. Im pretty sure all GW locos had two lamp irons on the firemans side of the running plate for storing spare lamps.

 

The lamp that looks like its sitting on the handrail, is sitting on the lamp bracket mounted on the smokebox. If you can find a photo of it. Lamps brackets had two other positions. On the smokebox door ring or on the door itself.

[southern42]

Thanks Kev, Mike and Bulleidnutter for all that information.

 

Hopefully, 1466 will be adorned with its white lamps for passenger working on the branchline and photographed over the weekend.

 

Polly

 

PS

Hi 81C Pleased to see you back on here again.

Interesting comment.

Another railway to look up.

Edited December 7, 2012 by southern42