Great West Road - transfers & I’m not talking football!

[southern42]

I'm fairly sure that it was at one time delivered in Class A tank cars - that's what I can remember at Reading in 1967 . I really can't remember what was at Southall - I only spent one day working there on a stores project (basically stripping out all the steam age stuff and reorganising the dmu spares).

I think SMBP moved into the larger sized tanks post steam as well.

I take it the dmu spares were kept in the stores building out back?  I'll have to follow that one up another time.

 

As to rolling stock, I can only go by photos and the bits of info I find and on the knowledge of others such as yourself who post on here or who I meet in the modelling and railway world.  So many thanks to all really, really appreciate everyone's input.  Never thought I'd get into worrying about wagons!

 

Since we started exhibiting and then joining RMweb, it seems I have to, no, enjoy, no, have to find the 'right' model for the job.  Some innate thing, I guess!  Oh, that was until the Huntley and Palmer came along. 

 

This is the Peckett I am WAS hoping to model as seen at 81C, 7th September from an HST 125.

 

I got it wrong!  Back in 2011, the GWRd Preservation Group managed to obtain one of the old Reading biscuit factory locos that had been pleasantly restored in someone's back yard.  Whispers had been flying about for a while but it came up for sale 19 December in Sheffield and the word was out that an elderly chap, with a long white beard and wearing a red outfit, had taken delivery of it.  It arrived at 81G late 24 December - by sleigh,I believe.  The volunteers were quite busy on the 25th!  Hohoho!

Edited December 27, 2016 by southern42

[southern42]

My Christmas card to you all.

Photographed on Camel Quay, the china clay dust makes a good substitute for a bit of snow. 

That is the O2 in the foreground.

 

And Happy Modelling in 2017

 

[The Stationmaster]

And to you too Polly (not forgetting himself of course).

[Andrew P]

 

My Christmas card to you all.

Photographed on Camel Quay, the china clay dust makes a good substitute for a bit of snow. 

That is the O2 in the foreground.

 

Merry Christmas 2016.jpg

And Happy Modelling in 2017

 

Thanks so much and the same to you and Ray, hopefully we'll meet up again in 2017 somewhere.

[Castle]

Same to you and Ray from myself and the gang at 81E!

 

Happy Christmas,

 

Castle

[Castle]

 

 

 ..and here is an earlier version - in lined black, I guess.

GWo03 GWR 2 8 0 4707 at Bath Spa 20 9 58.jpg

.

 

Hi All,

 

Just to help out, according to David Maidment in his booK "Great Western Eight Coupled Heavy Frieght Locomotive's" only No. 4702 ever received the lined black mixed traffic BR livery. All the others went from plain black to lined green. I hope this helps!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[southern42]

Many thanks, Mike, Andy and Castle for your Christmas greetings.  Also, thanks for the early BR livery details on the Night Owls, Castle.  It makes it all the more interesting...I really must get that book... 

 

It seems the Peckett got stuck in snow on the Christmas cake on its way to GWRd after collecting some iced gems (once made by H and P) .

 

 

I now feel even luckier getting the Southall Peckett photo (top of the page), even if it is only a partial view. Not only were we zooming past on the HST but I discover that the Peckett was only there for another few weeks.  Photo taken on the 7th September.  The Peckett arrived at Helston on the 29th September.  Very lucky, methinks.  I think I would feel gutted had I missed seeing it.

 

So, if we want to see the inspiration behind GWRds little Peckett, we will have to go to the Helston Railway in Cornwall, nearer to some than to others.  So, if you do see it, or take a ride on or behind it, do lets us know.

http://www.helstonrailway.co.uk/news-full?A-new-addition-arrives-206

http://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/southall-peckett-gives-helston-railway-its-first-resident-steam/

 

 

[southern42]

Postman arrived lunchtime with rest of my Christmas present form OH - one of Dapol's Freightliner Heavy Haul HIA limestone hopper wagons to go with the five I got at the Manchester Christmas Show having worked out I could only run five of them onto a 4ft sector plate.  I had some limestone infills for Christmas to go in them which, if I had another wagon, meant I could do a full rake (3 wagons) and return with an empty rake (3 wagons) - and who is going to check the numbers of the return empties, anyway???!!!! Oh, yes, that enthusiast on the end of the platform with camera on sturdy tripod ready to spot such things.  We can forget about him, then.  After a fruitless search by OH before Christmas for the last numbered one, some came up after Christmas.  Better late and all that...

 

Of course, everyone is going to shout out that Freightliner did not appear at GWRd in 2011.  Ah, but it did in 2014, the year the steam railmotor came to town!  I may have a bit of a wait until the SRM comes off the RTR production line but it does give the permanent way gang time to get some T***k down!  So, on that hopeful note

 

 

H A P P Y  N E W  Y E A R

 

TO YOU ALL

 

Polly & Ray

[southern42]

Hi all.

Yes, it is now mid-summer and it has been a pretty busy year so not much in the way of modelling - none, actually!.

 

But...

 

...some Toads are due to appear or are "in stock". 

 

These include Toads such as "Paddington" (Oxford Rail) which was a destination for wagons from Brentford.  The question is, when required, were brake vans on the branchline from originating yards (Swindon, Bridport, etc) or were "Southall" brake vans attached before the trains went down the Brentford branch line?

 

I am tempted by Paddington, Acton (Oxford Rail) and Old Oak Common (Bachmann), anyway - all GWR livery - for my growing stock of private owner. wagons, just because they are in home (West London) territory. 

 

I note that in a photo taken at Brentford Dock 1960 by David Pearson, the planked brake van is behind the loco at the front of the train.  This helps in understanding train movements whereby the brake van will be at the rear of the train on the uphill return journey.

 

Hope someone can help.

[southern42]

Just an update.

 

"Paddington"  (EDIT 2: Shell BP tank wagon) and "Par" duly arrived.  Before ordering the latter, I had read (no doubt for the n^th time but at least confirming my short memory!) that china clay was one of the commodities that was destined for Brentford.  Whether they were from Par, or not, it did not say but, hey, this is GWRd we are talking about.  So, no worries! 

 

All I need to do, in this instance (EDIT 3)  the meantime, is find a pic of a Brentford-Paddington (or vice versa) goods train.  May take a while...but you never know. 

 

 

Thanks for looking in.

 

 

EDIT 1: In 1956 (probably less by 1961), 5,200 tons of general merchandise went to Paddington from Brentford Town Goods Yard.  (Brentford Dock and Railway by Diana Willment, p.62)  A mix of vans and wagons, then. In other words, whatever I have in the box!

 

EDIT 4:  The arrival of "Paddington" - not out yet!  Er, what was I saying about having a short memory, above? 

You can have a laugh, if you want.

Edited July 24, 2017 by southern42

[southern42]

Hi all and thanks for your ratings.  Much appreciated.

 

Last week, I, finally, ordered what I guessed ought to be a must have book.  It was mentioned on the disused stations website for Brentford Dock, so I was excited, and full of expectation, when it arrived yesterday.  I bought it for just one article  - Brentford Dock and Branch.

 

I was blown away.  It far exceeded anything I had hoped for.  The photos alone are throwing up all sorts of things and I haven't even started reading it yet!   A couple of things to get us started:

 

1.  I knew the old steam railmotor shed was demolished before 1961.  A photo of the branch line for September 1960 shows the railmotor shed has already gone...but not the GWR water softener tower.  That is still there as well as the BR one.

AND...not only are there a couple of DMUs (what looks like a Class 122 on a 3-car 2-car and a Class 121 behind) on the old railmotor shed road, there is also a GWR diesel railcar behind them.  Just goes to show how long that road was!  At the buffer, on the adjacent siding, stands a Toad and a ventilated van.

 

2.  Immediately behind pannier tank 3799, coming up from the branch, are five containers, ventilated van(?), two open wagons, another ventilated van and a Toad. Now, that would be more than ample for GWRd but coupled up to this lot are over twenty more wagons, open and covered, the rest of the train disappearing out of sight behind the DMUs.

 

3.  In the first photo in the article, a brake van ride is taking place on the back of a goods train in 1958 pre-dating the 1960s drivers day with three brake vans I have mentioned before.

 

4.  And the greatest bit of info of the day!  There is a photo of a PW train on the Brentford branch (1962) - absolutely delighted to find that!  Just need to get a few of the right type of 20 ton hoppers...

 

...pause for Search....

 

...Wait for it...5 Herrings in view...Some differences...I will have to get my wagon book off the shelf!  Also, there are differences in their markings.  Kit by Cambrian Models but would they be the right ones as they are not riveted (BR)?   I can't tell, even with a zoomed in photo, if they were riveted or not, although one does look as if it might have G W R letters across the side panels...

 

...find out what is on the other end of the train (out of sight!).  Er...that could come from a brass kit from Dart Castings, in the form of a PW brake van.  Ah, well!  Looks like it might be awhile before I consider re-creating a PW set!  But I could add the wagons to my wishlist!

 

 

Cambrain Kits P22: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94889-cambrian-kits-gwr-p22-herring-ballast-wagon/

Edited September 9, 2017 by southern42

[The Stationmaster]

Polly,

 

The ballast train brakevan would probably have been a Shark (or older equivalent) and Hornby used to do a Shark r-t-r.

[tender]

Polly,

 

The ballast train brakevan would probably have been a Shark (or older equivalent) and Hornby used to do a Shark r-t-r.

She's got one of them. Came across it the other night while rummaging through her stuff looking for her 'loco dept' shunter's truck.

The one in the book has 'Brentford' on it so it might get a make over.

[southern42]

Some timetabling meanderings.

 

Returning to the "Brentford Dock and Branch" article. It gives a more detailed account of the branch locos than I have seen before.  It could form the beginnings of a working timetable for GWRd, there being 4 locos in operation during the day. Reference is made to the 1947-1948 WTT so anticipating changes for the 1960s which it notes had two diesels.

Simply put, the locos depart Southall, shunt at the other end, and return.  Monday to Saturday c.1948.
Loco   Depart                            Return
No. 1   4.55am  Goods train      5.10pm  Goods train
No. 2   6.45am  Light engine     7.15pm  Light engine
No. 3   1.40pm  Goods train      9.55pm  Goods train
No. 4   6.0pm    LE or Goods  c.2.45am  Light engine

 

 

[EDIT to ADD]

There were seven Up Goods arriving at Southall according to the WTT "from September 1948" (Section 1 - London, Reading, Didcot, Oxford, Wycombe & Banbury - From September 27th 1948 - (117MB).)

From Docks AM 9.38; 10.48

From Docks PM 12.18; 2.58; 5.20;

From Docks and Town PM "Reading West Jct." 6.58; 9.58

 

Photos of the early 1960s also indicate Up trains during the day.  [end EDIT]

 

 

So, 1961, the photo of 28 October (Ben Brooksbank) of 81C loco, 9791 on Brentford-Southall goods includes:

the 13.15 Paddington - Hereford express passing with 4-6-0 7006 'Lydford Castle'.

 

Sept 1960-June 1961, it was timetabled as the IT08 12.45pm.  London District - Passenger Trains - 12th September 1960 to 11th June 1961 - (62.0MB)]

 
Photo: May 1962 "Brentford Branch and Dock" article (S.E. Teasdale)
81C loco 9641 on Brentford-Southall goods
Shadows indicate that the photo was taken around midday.
 
1960-61 WTT has trains arriving at Southall from Brentford Docks at 12.8pm and 2.48. (London District - Freight Trains - 12th September 1960 to 11th June 1961)  The shadow suggests the earlier time.

 

The other photo (C.R.L. Coles) of 3799 hauling the goods train in "Brentford Dock and Branch" is dated September 1960.

Shadows, again, suggest a midday train.

 

While we are on WTTs - another useful find.  Southall train movements  Section 1 - London, Reading, Didcot, Oxford, Wycombe & Banbury - From September 27th 1948 - (117MB).

E.g. Time for the "Southall empty auto" arriving at Ealing 4^.52pm (for Greenford).

 

1960-1961 WTT  London District - Passenger Trains - 12th September 1960 to 11th June 1961

Scrolling through one page at a time seems quite useful.

E.g.  To West Drayton ECS Depart Southall at 2.50am (MX).  "To form the 3.10 West Drayton"

To Staines ECS Depart Southall 5.46am

...using the new Dapol Classes 121 and 122...Wey-hey..

Now to find more and at what time they arrive back!

Edited September 12, 2017 by southern42

[southern42]

GWRd's latest arrival goes out on road for a test run...
to the Hill Country by the looks of it.

Ah, the wonder of it all!

 

EVERYONE!

 

 

[Andrew P]

Thanks Polly, I hope you and Young Ray have a good Christmas and a Happy New Year to you both.

 

Regarding Great West Road............................Is it built yet?

[southern42]

Thanks Polly, I hope you and Young Ray have a good Christmas and a Happy New Year to you both.

 

Regarding Great West Road............................Is it built yet?

 

Erm...I think that is next year's project...so I hope the year doesn't go as fast as this one as you can tell by the lack of posts and modelling above!  I mean, TWO Christmases on one page must be a record!  Ho ho ho!  

 

Wishing you and Dee the best for Christmas and the New Year.

[southern42]

Hi all.  Hope you and your kin had a merry Christmas with plenty of toys from Santa.

 

One loco excitedly received which is to become 5531 although, this may be delayed awhile as the model bears the number of the preserved 2-6-2T No. 5532 at our nearest standard gauge railway at Llangollen.  A bit of yes-no tug-of-war going on, at the moment, but 5531 it will have to be.

 

Also, two books from my wishlist. Really pleased with them as they have plenty of GWRd related items, some really useful info, and some situations giving rise to a few questions.

 

So...

Party Game #1

When was the northern tower of the Southall Station building demolished?

 

In Kevin McCormack's London Local Trains, all three towers are present in a 1959 photo but the northern one is gone by October 1961.  I have not seen any 1960 photos that I recall.

Does anyone know exactly/approximately when it was pulled down?  Other than "Sometime between 1959 and 1961," that is.  I know you lot!  

I don't suppose the tower survived into early 1961, perchance?  

 

A couple of links featuring the missing tower (and 81C locos!).

28 October 1961 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Southall_station%2C_with_up_goods_passing_geograph-2946778-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

 

28 October 1961:  https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Southall_railway_station_geograph-2135120.jpg

9f 92224 was at Southall 16/07/1960 - 03/11/1962 but since GWRd is already allocated a pair of 9Fs, it will not be getting this one.  Shame because it is a lovely looking engine. 

 

The GWRd's pair of 9Fs seen at Southall 1965 https://www.flickr.com/photos/andersley_images/7899083852/in/photolist-mm6GNB-d31SwE-d31SqU-Pzfjcc-QzNmdU

 

End of Party Game 

Answers please to keep the Smiley smiling...

 

 

 

Edit: Book title - words in wrong order, now corrected.

Edit : typo.

Edited December 31, 2017 by southern42

[phil_sutters]

For those who have not seen the Stirling Single sample, AndyY has posted a few pics on the Rapido/Locomotion Models GNR Stirling Single thread  #367 but unfortunately, I am one of those who will not be getting the Sturrock tender.

 

 

Don't worry, I will get over it.

Did you not see it at Aly Paly?

Edited December 30, 2017 by phil_sutters

[southern42]

Did you not see it at Aly Paly?

422 no1 Alexandra Palace London 1938.jpg

 

Rats!  Missed it...

Edited December 30, 2017 by southern42

[southern42]

H A P P Y  N E W  Y E A R

A L L

 

Must say, I am looking forward to this one - a Class 59 for the branch line.

 

[Andrew P]

Happy New Year to you and Ray.

[southern42]

Everything comes to those who wait!
 
So they say, anyway.
 
One Christmas present shed a bit of light on a question posted above:-
 
 

 

Hi all.

Yes, it is now mid-summer and it has been a pretty busy year so not much in the way of modelling - none, actually!.

 

But...

 

...some Toads are due to appear or are "in stock". 

 

These include Toads such as "Paddington" (Oxford Rail) which was a destination for wagons from Brentford.  The question is, when required, were brake vans on the branchline from originating yards (Swindon, Bridport, etc) or were "Southall" brake vans attached before the trains went down the Brentford branch line?

 

........................

 

 
In Atkins, GWR Goods Train Working vol. 1, almost at the end, so it took a day or two, over Christmas, to notice it, there is a photo of a...no...sorry...THE Southall Toad Diagram AA3 with small GW letters above the van number.  On the opposite page, there is a list of depots retaining names on brake vans after changes in goods operations brought in during World War 2 - Southall retained one named brake van.

 

So...

  End of Party Games Game 

Did the named Southall brake van last into BR days and keep its depot name?

 

[southern42]

 Hi all. Just to let you know I am still here!

 

Fun and games,at the moment. After a few days researching and preparing a drawing on my laptop for an item of freight, I finally printed one out, then got sidetracked by something else and a few more days passed.

 

Today, it was bright and sunny.  I took advantage of this and glued the drawing onto the back of a cereal packet and cut the parts out.

Next was a test fit before proceeding further.

 

Oh! Poop!  Some of the measurements were out (an oversight) - I had messed up (more than I thought it would matter) and not brought all the components exactly into line with each other!  So, one side was higher than the other and the ends were short on width and height! Even the top was wider than the base.  A bad day in the (MS) Office!

 

Back to the drawing but, by the time I had it sorted (all height and width measurements in agreement), I had lost the daylight and decided to leave it for another day.  The new drawing is printed out ready for the knife so, hopefully, the wait will not be too long.

 

Back soon. 

[Andrew P]

 Hi all. Just to let you know I am still here!

 

Fun and games,at the moment. After a few days researching and preparing a drawing on my laptop for an item of freight, I finally printed one out, then got sidetracked by something else and a few more days passed.

 

Today, it was bright and sunny.  I took advantage of this and glued the drawing onto the back of a cereal packet and cut the parts out.

Next was a test fit before proceeding further.

 

Oh! Poop!  Some of the measurements were out (an oversight) - I had messed up (more than I thought it would matter) and not brought all the components exactly into line with each other!  So, one side was higher than the other and the ends were short on width and height! Even the top was wider than the base.  A bad day in the (MS) Office!

 

Back to the drawing but, by the time I had it sorted (all height and width measurements in agreement), I had lost the daylight and decided to leave it for another day.  The new drawing is printed out ready for the knife so, hopefully, the wait will not be too long.

 

Back soon. 

Hi Polly, Sorry to read of your miss measurement, but relating to the above.

 

I'm sorry again, but you've lost me. You have printed what out? I seem to have lost the tread somewhere along the line since discussing the named Brake van.

 

All the best,

Andy.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Andrew P