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PH Designs Class 90 Improvment Set

Class 90 DCC 4mm



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133 replies to this topic

#1 Pete Harvey

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 22:58

Here is something that I will be adding to my product range in the next month.

PHD90-A.jpg

PHD90-B.jpg

PHD90-C.jpg

PHD90-D.jpg

PHD90-F.jpg

PHD90-G.jpg

The set also includes etches for the cab windows, nose grills and nose lighting boxes.

PHD90-1.jpg

PHD90-2.jpg

PHD90-3.jpg

Please keep an eye on my website for updates on this product.

Email me through my site please if you have any questions?

Pete

Edited by Pete Harvey, 02 August 2012 - 10:28 .

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#2 Ian Fisher

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 23:17

Pete,

Love those parts it looks so much more 90ish... cant wait to see em in the resin so to speak...

Ian

#3 NickL2008

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 23:18

Hi Pete- that does look very good, seems to address the issue of the front light/horn covers effectively .. shame no pantograph kit to go along with that as am sure theyd sell well also ... as for your orginal question Ash, no the 87 kit wouldnt be any use as it contains the wrong parts

NL

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 23:29

A class 90 grill has 11 horizontal bars not 13 Pete (not a question just an observation) You might want to tweak the artwork before you get a whole sheet done.

HTH

Jim

#5 ash39

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 23:39

As said the lights/grills really transform the front end. I can't believe the improvement. Plus it gives the option of working lights which would look fantastic.

I think the only thing that isn't there is the pipework and coupling from the centre of the bufferbeam, not sure if they are included or not.

#6 HornbyFAN

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:28

The new Class 90 detailing kit looks absolutely smashing...!! I'm gonna go for one the moment its released.

#7 RBE

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:23

A class 90 grill has 11 horizontal bars not 13 Pete (not a question just an observation) You might want to tweak the artwork before you get a whole sheet done.

HTH

Jim


I only count 11 on Petes etch Jim.

Cav

#8 CWJ

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:30

I guess Jim was counting the top and bottom of the grille as well as the intermediate struts, Cav. Either way, I've looked at photographs and Pete's etch Iooks spot-on.

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 13:31

I guess Jim was counting the top and bottom of the grille as well as the intermediate struts, Cav. Either way, I've looked at photographs and Pete's etch Iooks spot-on.


Its got too many either way. Its not a big change from looks spot on to is spot on (not counting them is an easy enough mistake to make) but i have to admit the reason i checked was my first reaction was it looked weird

I am sure pete will sort it

Cheers

Jim

Edited by jim s-w, 26 July 2012 - 16:31 .


#10 ThaneofFife

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 13:54

Looks spot on to me too and the slat count is 11. No looks spot on about it, it is spot on. The upper and lower edges have nothing to with the grille.

If its got 2 too many slats that would leave it with only 9 which is wrong but looking at various photographs of the prototypes and comparing them to Petes attempt he seems to have got it bob on identical.

#11 HornbyFAN

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 14:35

How much are these kits for the Class90??

#12 Pete Harvey

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 14:50

Once this set has been added to my products range and on my site I will post about the set in my area quoting the set cost and postage.

Pete

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:03

Looks spot on to me too and the slat count is 11. No looks spot on about it, it is spot on. The upper and lower edges have nothing to with the grille.

If its got 2 too many slats that would leave it with only 9 which is wrong but looking at various photographs of the prototypes and comparing them to Petes attempt he seems to have got it bob on identical.


Compare Petes to this http://www.flickr.co...240024/sizes/l/ and the number of slats is different - I dont know who you are trying to convince that that are the same but anyone who can actually count can see for themselves.

I am sure Pete has double checked and the production ones will be corrected which is what really matters.

It was a simple enough observation so that Pete could make a small correction, I didnt mean to divert the original topic into a how to count one. Appologies to the OP

Cheers

Jim

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Edited by jim s-w, 26 July 2012 - 16:42 .


#14 Marcyg

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 17:26

The kit looks good. Is it possible just to purchase the resin 'skirt' on it's own? Also, with regards to the skirt, are you planning on producing the push pull buffing plate or will that be down to the end user?

#15 RBE

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 18:26

Compare Petes to this http://www.flickr.co...240024/sizes/l/ and the number of slats is different - I dont know who you are trying to convince that that are the same but anyone who can actually count can see for themselves.

I am sure Pete has double checked and the production ones will be corrected which is what really matters.

It was a simple enough observation so that Pete could make a small correction, I didnt mean to divert the original topic into a how to count one. Appologies to the OP

Cheers

Jim


It appears after comparing quite a few photos that there are indeed 11 slats however the top one starts a little below the edge of the bodywork with a gap above but the bottom one sits on the body at the bottom with no gap below. The way Pete has etched it I would say that there is one slat too many not two. The bottom slat being on the bottom of the grille opening. I'm not too fussed personally. It looks very good and much finer than the plasticard affair I made for my 90. I doubt that has 11 slats (I havent counted them)!!

Cav

PS counted them, I have 5 on mine (6 if you count the bottom edge as a slat)

Edited by RBE, 26 July 2012 - 18:28 .


#16 virginhst539

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 19:04

great work pete a much needed update to the old workhorse!

#17 Tim

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 21:56

OK guys, I've had a look at it from all sides of the argument and then taken a long hard look at the prototype before composing this reply.

It is universally accepted that the horn grille has 11 slats, so I think we can all say our numeracy skills are up to par ;). The etch Pete has done has a top and bottom flange, the former not being not present on the real thing, which is supported at the rear by three vertical supports, not a surround as per the etch. I appreciate that it isn't possible to do things properly sometimes, but surely it would be possible to do something that mirrored reality? I hate to use the word here, but it does look rather crude for what is a pretty delicate item.

It is more probable that the model isn't right in that area in the first place, so the etch (from what I can see) has been designed to fit the Hornby body instead of being an entirely faithful reproduction of the real thing.

Question for you Pete, if you don't mind my asking please? Have you taken measurements off a real class 90 for these at all? By this I mean actually putting a tape measure over them and then inputting that data into your design program? The problem that I can see is that the grille is too tall and so are the light units.

In terms of how far out it is, I would say we're looking at 0.5 to 1mm, which might not seem much to the casual eye, but equates to 1.5-3 inches in real terms. It's pretty significant and really impacts on the whole "face" of the loco.

Thing is, much as I would like a 21st century 90, I really do not mind doing a spot of modelling on a Hornby one to bring it up to par with current offerings.

Regards,
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#18 ash39

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 22:36

I disagree, I think the original was far too thin and Pete's version looks, to me, very good.

I can hardly count the horizontal slats when zoomed in 200% on a close up picture of one, so I very much doubt it will be noticeable on the model.

#19 NickL2008

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 22:47

Hi - I think as Tim has stated the etch looks to be out by about .5mm, comparing the etch to the real Class 90 [90028] the etch does look a bit bigger than it should be so if this reduction was made itd be spot on, otherwise a very good effort

NL

#20 CWJ

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 23:03

I'm torn by Tim's comments between the desire to make a model as accurate as possible and the reality of producing a buildable and cost-effective product! :) Pete has used an etch, i.e. a two-dimensional technique, to represent the grille which is in reality a three-dimensional louvred assembly. This, in my opinion, doesn't seem an unreasonable compromise given the size of the part, although being on such a prominent part of the loco it's important to get it right. Also, I would be surprised if even the world's most talented modeller would be able to build a genuine 3-dimensional slanted grille of this size! There can't be more than 0.25mm between slats. The nearest thing I can think of is the cant rail grilles in Shawplan's 'Extreme Etchings' range (for the Deltic, I think) and these are considerably bigger than the Class 90 horn grille.

As for the dimensions of Hornby's model, I can't think of a way that the PH Designs parts could do anything about this. On balance I could understand if he would rather produce a kit to match the (incorrect) model than one which needs additional skillful work to produce an exactly-accurate nose end. Those keen to produce a model which is as accurate as possible can still do so by doing (to quote Tim :)) 'a spot of modelling', with or without the PHD parts as an aid.

In my view it's still a massive improvement on the RTR model, especially you consider the number of modellers who are happy for their locos to look right from 'normal viewing distances'.

So although I can't argue with most of what Tim says, I hope this presents another side to the discussion :)

Cheers,

Will

PS. I have no connection with PH Designs, other than purchasing an excellent product whose only flaw was some small parts which, no doubt in the pursuit of scale accuracy, were etched so thinly that they were too fragile to pick up, let alone use, hence my support here for cosmetic practicality rather than scientific precision.
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#21 HornbyFAN

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:03

@ Pete,
Hi can you please tell me what all are included with this Class 90 kit. is it just the valance, window frames, front grill and light cluster? or is there more. I also noticed that in one of the pictures there is a lense over the lights, is that also provided or does the modeller have to use his own clear plastic for that?

Thanks in advance,
Jeremiah.

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 07:22

I disagree, I think the original was far too thin and Pete's version looks, to me, very good.

I can hardly count the horizontal slats when zoomed in 200% on a close up picture of one, so I very much doubt it will be noticeable on the model.


Um, I noticed straight away. If it wasn't notable there wouldn't even be this discussion. Thing is it's no problem to get it correct so there's equally no excuse to get it wrong, especially now it's a known thing.

I'm torn by Tim's comments between the desire to make a model as accurate as possible and the reality of producing a buildable and cost-effective product! :)


Indeed so but we are not talking about shawplan style deltic grills we are talking about a flat etch that definately has too many slats and probably is too deep. There is no difficulty here and please remember Petes stuff is at the top end when it comes to cost.

Like I said my first thought was that it looked weird but not knowing 90s all that well it's best to leave it to those who do. Now Tim has pointed out the height issue and looking again at the prototype I am in agreement with him, its too deep.

We are going to need 90s for tring so I do hope Pete fixes the problems (to save me measuring up a real one and etching my own)

Cheers

Jim

#23 Tim

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 09:34

Hi Will,

I'm torn by Tim's comments between the desire to make a model as accurate as possible and the reality of producing a buildable and cost-effective product! :) Pete has used an etch, i.e. a two-dimensional technique, to represent the grille which is in reality a three-dimensional louvred assembly. This, in my opinion, doesn't seem an unreasonable compromise given the size of the part, although being on such a prominent part of the loco it's important to get it right. Also, I would be surprised if even the world's most talented modeller would be able to build a genuine 3-dimensional slanted grille of this size! There can't be more than 0.25mm between slats. The nearest thing I can think of is the cant rail grilles in Shawplan's 'Extreme Etchings' range (for the Deltic, I think) and these are considerably bigger than the Class 90 horn grille.


Whilst I do appreciate that, the thing is (as Jim has said) Pete's products are generally higher-end in terms of price, so one would expect that if one is shelling out a reasonable amount of hard-earned, one does expect to get something that is right and no question about it.

As for the dimensions of Hornby's model, I can't think of a way that the PH Designs parts could do anything about this. On balance I could understand if he would rather produce a kit to match the (incorrect) model than one which needs additional skillful work to produce an exactly-accurate nose end. Those keen to produce a model which is as accurate as possible can still do so by doing (to quote Tim :)) 'a spot of modelling', with or without the PHD parts as an aid.


From what I can see, while the inserts go in the space exactly as moulded, it appears that the covers for the lights and the horn grille overlap, instead of merely cover that space. It would seem to me that all that requires doing is the height reduced for those parts only, which doesn't need to be much. As Jim says quite rightly, it won't be a difficult one to fix at all.

In my view it's still a massive improvement on the RTR model, especially you consider the number of modellers who are happy for their locos to look right from 'normal viewing distances'.


It is, but it's been rather let down by being a bit on the tall side, which is where the extra two slats have crept in. The top one shouldn't be there anyway. This saves one slat (minimal) and then just a single gap and a slat (0.6mm overall?) needs to go and it's "bang on". A closer inspection of this image here will show that there is a lip below the grille which is part of the lower angle of the nose. On Pete's test model this has vanished, bizarrely.

By my reckoning, just 0.3mm from top and bottom should sort things out. Also, the surround to the light cover should be wider at the side edges than the top and bottom edges. On Pete's etch, these are very much the opposite and there would also need to be a half-etched line on the outside edges to portray that edge of the surround. Again, these changes are not difficult to sort and I look forward to seeing if Pete can indeed do this.

Cheers,
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#24 Tim Horn

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 11:03

Handy detail shots . . .

90012 TJH02 Tring 21st December 1998 Copyright Tim Horn.jpg

90145_TJH05_Ipswich_Satruday_4th_April_1998_Copyright_Tim_Horn copy.jpg

90145_TJH06_Ipswich_Satruday_4th_April_1998_Copyright_Tim_Horn copy.jpg

90021 TJH01 Norwich 9th April 2004 Copyright Tim Horn copy.jpg

Cheers
Tim
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#25 Tim Horn

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 11:59

Quite a nice front on piccy . .

90004 TJH01 Norwich 24th September 2005 Copyright Tim Horn copy.jpg
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