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Semaphore Signals - 4mm Scale (Mainly)


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I'm not sure if these are the ones you are asking about, but I took these photographs on the Bluebell a couple of years ago. I'm also looking through some of my books to see if I have anything with measurement in. Peter Squibb talks a little about the construction of LSWR signals in his Scratchbuilders Guide to Semaphore SIgnals. ISBN 978 1 905184 68 2

 

post-8259-0-24558100-1416091154_thumb.jpg

 

post-8259-0-87592200-1416091154_thumb.jpg

 

post-8259-0-34976200-1416091155_thumb.jpg

 

post-8259-0-82204600-1416091155_thumb.jpg

 

If these are suitable I have the original RAW files and jpeg's at higher resolutions if you would like me to PM or email then to you.

 

All the best

 

Andy

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I

 

Is there not anything useful in the Pryer book, Southern Signals?

JF

 

 

I'm not sure if these are the ones you are asking about, but I took these photographs on the Bluebell a couple of years ago. I'm also looking through some of my books to see if I have anything with measurement in. Peter Squibb talks a little about the construction of LSWR signals in his Scratchbuilders Guide to Semaphore SIgnals. ISBN 978 1 905184 68 2

 

 

 

If these are suitable I have the original RAW files and jpeg's at higher resolutions if you would like me to PM or email then to you.

 

All the best

 

Andy

Jon, Andy,

 

Many thanks for your responses.

Pryers book does have a drawing on the from cover, and your Bluebell photos are very good.

However, its probably the height and one or two other dimensions I'm still short of.

 

Its my optimistic hope to get the help of my friend Les Green to produce some in 4mm scale from either Etches or 3D Printing, or both?????

 

He's currently working on some Westinghouse Signal Motors for me, which I'll then try to make "work" on a three doll splitting distant, which will be my next project.

 

Steve.

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I've just been having a search through the internet, as you do at 2am and you can't sleep, and I've found these two pictures and information. One is of a very nicely restored finial and the other is of one in not so good condition. But the important bit, i think is that they give the height of the finial in their catalogue.

 

post-8259-0-73224700-1416103722.jpg

 

post-8259-0-99904200-1416103721.jpg

 

post-8259-0-33991900-1416103722.jpg

 

I did think that you could get some measurements from the first picture using the bricks as a scale guide. If so the base plate appears to be about 10 - 12ins square, assuming a brick and mortar joint is 9ins. Trouble is, the angle the photograph is taken, means it doesn't correlate with the 24in height given in the auction catalogue. You might be able to make more of it than me.

 

All the best

 

Andy

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There is in the November 1962 Model Railway News, a dimensioned drawing of this type of finial.

 Alan Gibson did or does a lostwax 4mm version. They are good quility, and I use them for my H&B signals.

 If a 7mm version becomes available, I'd be interested to hear about it.

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There is in the November 1962 Model Railway News, a dimensioned drawing of this type of finial.

 Alan Gibson did or does a lostwax 4mm version. They are good quility, and I use them for my H&B signals.

 If a 7mm version becomes available, I'd be interested to hear about it.

Hi Mick,

 

Thanks for that.

I'll check out the MRN in our club's library.

 

I've used the Alan Gibson finials previously, but the pair I bought were somewhat distorted.

I may have been unlucky, so I'll certainly have another look at them next chance I get.

 

Steve.

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Hi Steve, truly inspirational. I'd like to get some of the parallel action pliers but they seem to come in a variety of sizes eg 6" 5.5" etc. please can you advise the best to use for 4mm work.

Hi Roger,

 

The ones I have are 5.5in long, and are sprung.

Can't compare to other sizes, but I certainly find these very comfortable to use.

 

Steve.

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Ha ha!

post-8259-0-73224700-1416103722.jpg

Anyway, may I just thank Highwayman for posting this  and say what a lovely 'ornament' this is. I would never have thought of having one as a Christmas present (SWMBO reads all my posts......)

 

Anyway, in 4mm would Wizard models fret S002 and part SC002 help at all? If I were capable of making signals I would probably look at that (and then walk away looking sad..........).

I seem to remember that, way back in the early 70s, I was trying to make a Ratio lattice signal post look reasonable. Due to my lack of skill that kit is still probably lurking unfinished somewhere at the bottom of a box of other unfinished stuff in the loft.

Phil

Edited by Mallard60022
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WOW!  Some superb modelling on this thread (which I have just discovered). Your attention to detail and the accuracy of your work is humbling for us mere mortals. I have made a few signals myself but have never got quite the fine look (particularly of the working parts) that you include.

 

Hope you don't think it's too much of a cheek if I post a snap of one of mine.....

 

somersault345x600_zps534c05a5.jpg

 

.....I was quite proud of this until I saw your stuff....

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WOW!  Some superb modelling on this thread (which I have just discovered). Your attention to detail and the accuracy of your work is humbling for us mere mortals. I have made a few signals myself but have never got quite the fine look (particularly of the working parts) that you include.

 

Hope you don't think it's too much of a cheek if I post a snap of one of mine.....

 

somersault345x600_zps534c05a5.jpg

 

.....I was quite proud of this until I saw your stuff....

Chaz,

That looks a very fine signal indeed.

Well done!

 

Steve.

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Some time has passed since I reported any modelling on here, but I haven't been completely idle.........

 

My next signal is for the Swindon layout, but is not fully prototypical.

 

I believe it is based on a signal which existed in the Didcot area, but has been transposed to Swindon for the purposes of the layout.

 

The first step was to produce this outline drawing to scale. This was used by the layout owner to confirm the proportions etc., and will be used in the Workshop as the build progresses.

post-3984-0-71551800-1419789177_thumb.jpg

As you can see, it took three versions to get it correct!

 

The signal is based on the GWR "Round Post" designs, with Motor Driven Distants.

The model will use MSE etched components for the bracketwork and the signal arms, and MSE cast lamps and finials.

 

The general specification is "Servo operation, with fibre optic lighting".

 

More soon.......

 

Steve.

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Loosely based it would appear but it looks as if somebody is going in for some nice fast junctions on their layout which could look rather impressive - GWR standard principle, splitting distants only provided where the divergent junction speed was 40 mph (or higher, I don't think any were higher in reality).  But it will look rather nice with the stop arm 'off' on the main doll and a distant 'off' on one of the other dolls.  Somewhere I've got a  photo of the signal on which I'm presuming it is based although in its case both of the divergent route distants are to the right of the doll carrying the stop arm/lower arm distant.

 

It also appears in these three photos available online

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Moreton_Cutting_Sidings_geograph-2468523-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Moreton_Cutting_Yard_geograph-2912715-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Moreton_Cutting_Sidings_geograph-2517735-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg

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Making a start....

 

The characteristic feature of this signal, and the item which literally holds everything together is the Bracket.

The prototype is made from rivetted iron - angle iron and flat strip.

 

In the model this is made from a modified MSE Brass Etch.

 

The etch chosen can make up to a four doll signal, but I need only three.

The etched sides of the bracket were trimmed appropriately.

 

The etched Top and Bottom plates unfortunately have the doll location incorrect for my model, so they were replaced by two I made from 6mm x 0.5 mm Brass Strip.

Two lengths were soldered together and marked out for drilling.

Using the horzontal table on my Milling m/c I was able to get the spacing quite accurate,and laso to adjust the distance from the front edge of the plates so that the dolls and main stem would be flush with the inside of the bracket when assembled.

(This is how they are positioned on the prototype, rather than the dolls and main stem being on a common axis as per the etched items.)

The same indexing of the Milling m/c table allowed me to reproduce the hole spacings in a block of plywood which I then used as an assembly jig.

I used three 2.0mm drills for the dolls and one 4.0mm drill for the main post during the Bracket assembly because being HSS they don't take solder.

post-3984-0-93434800-1419892239_thumb.jpg

(You will see I assembled the bracket upside down.)

 

More soon....

 

Steve.

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Time to play with the Dolls.......

 

These are made from 2mm dia Brass Tube.

 

post-3984-0-50537900-1419955908_thumb.jpg

 

The Arm Bearings are 1/32in Brass Tube, attached overlength to easily check for squareness, then trimmed.

The Lamp Brackets are from N/S etches made for me by Les Green some time ago.

The Weight Bar bearing is an MSE Casting.

 

This rear view shows  the holes where the fibre optics will eventually pass into the Doll.

 

post-3984-0-19213100-1419955910_thumb.jpg

 

Because the fibres are 0.5mm dia, and the lower section of the main doll must have room for two, this doll had to be fabricated.

The tube you see in the photo is a thin-wall 5/64in  tube (1.98mm), with a full length inner of 1/16in thin-wall tube.

The two tubes are sweated together to give more strength than the thin-wall tube provides on its own.

The inner dia is now about 1.2mm, so allowing two fibres to be threaded through it.

 

The outer two dolls are made from 2mm thick-wall tube, which has an internal diam of 1.0mm.

 

More soon...........

 

Steve.

 

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Motor driven "Distants"????...

 

A very common feature of GWR distant signals is the use of Westinghouse Electric Signal Machines.

This signal will require three of these, but I've never attempted to make a working model of them previously.

 

On the prototype the "Backing Machine" as they are known (so I'm told) is mounted on the Right side of the Doll, below the Distant arm.

There is a short crank at the front of the Machine which pushes the "Down Rod" upwards to move the arm to the Clear position.

The machine includes a brake to hold the arm in position, and when this is released, the arm returns to Danger under gravity.

All this information was provided to me by "LNERGE" following a request for help I Made here on RMweb. 

Such help from fellow modellers is really appreciated, and without it many of us would struggle.  :yes:

 

On the model the Distants will be operated by wires from servo motors below the baseboard, so what can I do to make them appear to be Motor Driven?

I've decided to try to hide the operating wires from view as far as possible, and connect them to a second crank on each Westinghouse Motor. this will be on the same shaft as the one connected to the Down Rod, but at the rear of the Motor.

The completed signal will normally be viewed from the front, so if I can keep the wires to the rear I can hopefully hide them from general view.

To this end, I've decided to build two rocking bars inside the signal's bracket to transfer the motion of the wires out to the two outside dolls.

To get at these for assembly etc. I needed to cut away most of the top and bottom surfaces of the bracket assembly, and this can be seen here:

post-3984-0-63740100-1420045606_thumb.jpg

 

post-3984-0-21202700-1420045608_thumb.jpg

By now the Dolls and bracket support struts have been added.

 

 

More to follow.........NEXT YEAR!   Happy New Year  :bye: 

 

Steve.

 

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Motor driven "Distants"????...

 

A very common feature of GWR distant signals is the use of Westinghouse Electric Signal Machines.

This signal will require three of these, but I've never attempted to make a working model of them previously.

 

On the prototype the "Backing Machine" as they are known (so I'm told) is mounted on the Right side of the Doll, below the Distant arm.

There is a short crank at the front of the Machine which pushes the "Down Rod" upwards to move the arm to the Clear position.

The machine includes a brake to hold the arm in position, and when this is released, the arm returns to Danger under gravity.

All this information was provided to me by "LNERGE" following a request for help I Made here on RMweb. 

Such help from fellow modellers is really appreciated, and without it many of us would struggle.  :yes:

 

On the model the Distants will be operated by wires from servo motors below the baseboard, so what can I do to make them appear to be Motor Driven?

I've decided to try to hide the operating wires from view as far as possible, and connect them to a second crank on each Westinghouse Motor. this will be on the same shaft as the one connected to the Down Rod, but at the rear of the Motor.

The completed signal will normally be viewed from the front, so if I can keep the wires to the rear I can hopefully hide them from general view.

To this end, I've decided to build two rocking bars inside the signal's bracket to transfer the motion of the wires out to the two outside dolls.

To get at these for assembly etc. I needed to cut away most of the top and bottom surfaces of the bracket assembly, and this can be seen here:

attachicon.gifP1010577.jpg

 

attachicon.gifP1010745.jpg

By now the Dolls and bracket support struts have been added.

 

 

More to follow.........NEXT YEAR!   Happy New Year  :bye: 

 

Steve.

 

And this is 4mm!   It's very fine work indeed (neat and crisply accurate) and an example to all of us brass-manglers.

 

Chaz

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Steve,

 

Don't forget that the motor worked arm was returned to caution by the home returning to danger (assuming the lever was still reversed), which gives rise to the peculiar situation below.

 

post-6662-0-90664000-1420048312_thumb.jpg

(Wrexham)

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