Highlandman Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I'm not sure if these are the ones you are asking about, but I took these photographs on the Bluebell a couple of years ago. I'm also looking through some of my books to see if I have anything with measurement in. Peter Squibb talks a little about the construction of LSWR signals in his Scratchbuilders Guide to Semaphore SIgnals. ISBN 978 1 905184 68 2 If these are suitable I have the original RAW files and jpeg's at higher resolutions if you would like me to PM or email then to you. All the best Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted November 15, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2014 I Is there not anything useful in the Pryer book, Southern Signals? JF I'm not sure if these are the ones you are asking about, but I took these photographs on the Bluebell a couple of years ago. I'm also looking through some of my books to see if I have anything with measurement in. Peter Squibb talks a little about the construction of LSWR signals in his Scratchbuilders Guide to Semaphore SIgnals. ISBN 978 1 905184 68 2 If these are suitable I have the original RAW files and jpeg's at higher resolutions if you would like me to PM or email then to you. All the best Andy Jon, Andy, Many thanks for your responses. Pryers book does have a drawing on the from cover, and your Bluebell photos are very good. However, its probably the height and one or two other dimensions I'm still short of. Its my optimistic hope to get the help of my friend Les Green to produce some in 4mm scale from either Etches or 3D Printing, or both????? He's currently working on some Westinghouse Signal Motors for me, which I'll then try to make "work" on a three doll splitting distant, which will be my next project. Steve. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandman Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) I've just been having a search through the internet, as you do at 2am and you can't sleep, and I've found these two pictures and information. One is of a very nicely restored finial and the other is of one in not so good condition. But the important bit, i think is that they give the height of the finial in their catalogue. I did think that you could get some measurements from the first picture using the bricks as a scale guide. If so the base plate appears to be about 10 - 12ins square, assuming a brick and mortar joint is 9ins. Trouble is, the angle the photograph is taken, means it doesn't correlate with the 24in height given in the auction catalogue. You might be able to make more of it than me. All the best Andy Edited November 16, 2014 by Highlandman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted November 16, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2014 Andy, Those two will be really helpful. I think I have some information on the dimensions of the lattice posts which will help confirm the size of the finial's base. Hope you get some sleep Steve. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 There is in the November 1962 Model Railway News, a dimensioned drawing of this type of finial. Alan Gibson did or does a lostwax 4mm version. They are good quility, and I use them for my H&B signals. If a 7mm version becomes available, I'd be interested to hear about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Roger Sunderland Posted November 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 16, 2014 Hi Steve, truly inspirational. I'd like to get some of the parallel action pliers but they seem to come in a variety of sizes eg 6" 5.5" etc. please can you advise the best to use for 4mm work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted November 16, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2014 There is in the November 1962 Model Railway News, a dimensioned drawing of this type of finial. Alan Gibson did or does a lostwax 4mm version. They are good quility, and I use them for my H&B signals. If a 7mm version becomes available, I'd be interested to hear about it. Hi Mick, Thanks for that. I'll check out the MRN in our club's library. I've used the Alan Gibson finials previously, but the pair I bought were somewhat distorted. I may have been unlucky, so I'll certainly have another look at them next chance I get. Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted November 16, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2014 Hi Steve, truly inspirational. I'd like to get some of the parallel action pliers but they seem to come in a variety of sizes eg 6" 5.5" etc. please can you advise the best to use for 4mm work. Hi Roger, The ones I have are 5.5in long, and are sprung. Can't compare to other sizes, but I certainly find these very comfortable to use. Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Steve, I have sent a scan of the finial drawing via the "Electric Telegraph to your E Mail address. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Roger Sunderland Posted November 17, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2014 Hi Roger, The ones I have are 5.5in long, and are sprung. Can't compare to other sizes, but I certainly find these very comfortable to use. Steve. Many thanks Steve, keep producing the detailed pics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted November 17, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2014 Don't suppose that Seaton Junction pic I showed you is of any use? P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted November 17, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2014 Don't suppose that Seaton Junction pic I showed you is of any use? P Its with that signal in mind that I'm seeking good finials! Its called planning ahead Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted November 18, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) Ha ha! Anyway, may I just thank Highwayman for posting this and say what a lovely 'ornament' this is. I would never have thought of having one as a Christmas present (SWMBO reads all my posts......) Anyway, in 4mm would Wizard models fret S002 and part SC002 help at all? If I were capable of making signals I would probably look at that (and then walk away looking sad..........). I seem to remember that, way back in the early 70s, I was trying to make a Ratio lattice signal post look reasonable. Due to my lack of skill that kit is still probably lurking unfinished somewhere at the bottom of a box of other unfinished stuff in the loft. Phil Edited November 18, 2014 by Mallard60022 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Some very nice modelling on here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 WOW! Some superb modelling on this thread (which I have just discovered). Your attention to detail and the accuracy of your work is humbling for us mere mortals. I have made a few signals myself but have never got quite the fine look (particularly of the working parts) that you include. Hope you don't think it's too much of a cheek if I post a snap of one of mine..... .....I was quite proud of this until I saw your stuff.... 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted November 20, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2014 Sorry about brief response, I'm in Collogne with the Lime Street team. more later. Steve 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted November 30, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 30, 2014 WOW! Some superb modelling on this thread (which I have just discovered). Your attention to detail and the accuracy of your work is humbling for us mere mortals. I have made a few signals myself but have never got quite the fine look (particularly of the working parts) that you include. Hope you don't think it's too much of a cheek if I post a snap of one of mine..... .....I was quite proud of this until I saw your stuff.... Chaz, That looks a very fine signal indeed. Well done! Steve. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted December 28, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2014 Some time has passed since I reported any modelling on here, but I haven't been completely idle......... My next signal is for the Swindon layout, but is not fully prototypical. I believe it is based on a signal which existed in the Didcot area, but has been transposed to Swindon for the purposes of the layout. The first step was to produce this outline drawing to scale. This was used by the layout owner to confirm the proportions etc., and will be used in the Workshop as the build progresses. As you can see, it took three versions to get it correct! The signal is based on the GWR "Round Post" designs, with Motor Driven Distants. The model will use MSE etched components for the bracketwork and the signal arms, and MSE cast lamps and finials. The general specification is "Servo operation, with fibre optic lighting". More soon....... Steve. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 28, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) Loosely based it would appear but it looks as if somebody is going in for some nice fast junctions on their layout which could look rather impressive - GWR standard principle, splitting distants only provided where the divergent junction speed was 40 mph (or higher, I don't think any were higher in reality). But it will look rather nice with the stop arm 'off' on the main doll and a distant 'off' on one of the other dolls. Somewhere I've got a photo of the signal on which I'm presuming it is based although in its case both of the divergent route distants are to the right of the doll carrying the stop arm/lower arm distant. It also appears in these three photos available online http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Moreton_Cutting_Sidings_geograph-2468523-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Moreton_Cutting_Yard_geograph-2912715-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Moreton_Cutting_Sidings_geograph-2517735-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg Edited December 28, 2014 by The Stationmaster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Ah the planning stages. Always the bit I find most difficult.! JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted December 29, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 29, 2014 Making a start.... The characteristic feature of this signal, and the item which literally holds everything together is the Bracket. The prototype is made from rivetted iron - angle iron and flat strip. In the model this is made from a modified MSE Brass Etch. The etch chosen can make up to a four doll signal, but I need only three. The etched sides of the bracket were trimmed appropriately. The etched Top and Bottom plates unfortunately have the doll location incorrect for my model, so they were replaced by two I made from 6mm x 0.5 mm Brass Strip. Two lengths were soldered together and marked out for drilling. Using the horzontal table on my Milling m/c I was able to get the spacing quite accurate,and laso to adjust the distance from the front edge of the plates so that the dolls and main stem would be flush with the inside of the bracket when assembled. (This is how they are positioned on the prototype, rather than the dolls and main stem being on a common axis as per the etched items.) The same indexing of the Milling m/c table allowed me to reproduce the hole spacings in a block of plywood which I then used as an assembly jig. I used three 2.0mm drills for the dolls and one 4.0mm drill for the main post during the Bracket assembly because being HSS they don't take solder. (You will see I assembled the bracket upside down.) More soon.... Steve. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted December 30, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2014 Time to play with the Dolls....... These are made from 2mm dia Brass Tube. The Arm Bearings are 1/32in Brass Tube, attached overlength to easily check for squareness, then trimmed. The Lamp Brackets are from N/S etches made for me by Les Green some time ago. The Weight Bar bearing is an MSE Casting. This rear view shows the holes where the fibre optics will eventually pass into the Doll. Because the fibres are 0.5mm dia, and the lower section of the main doll must have room for two, this doll had to be fabricated. The tube you see in the photo is a thin-wall 5/64in tube (1.98mm), with a full length inner of 1/16in thin-wall tube. The two tubes are sweated together to give more strength than the thin-wall tube provides on its own. The inner dia is now about 1.2mm, so allowing two fibres to be threaded through it. The outer two dolls are made from 2mm thick-wall tube, which has an internal diam of 1.0mm. More soon........... Steve. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted December 31, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2014 Motor driven "Distants"????... A very common feature of GWR distant signals is the use of Westinghouse Electric Signal Machines. This signal will require three of these, but I've never attempted to make a working model of them previously. On the prototype the "Backing Machine" as they are known (so I'm told) is mounted on the Right side of the Doll, below the Distant arm. There is a short crank at the front of the Machine which pushes the "Down Rod" upwards to move the arm to the Clear position. The machine includes a brake to hold the arm in position, and when this is released, the arm returns to Danger under gravity. All this information was provided to me by "LNERGE" following a request for help I Made here on RMweb. Such help from fellow modellers is really appreciated, and without it many of us would struggle. On the model the Distants will be operated by wires from servo motors below the baseboard, so what can I do to make them appear to be Motor Driven? I've decided to try to hide the operating wires from view as far as possible, and connect them to a second crank on each Westinghouse Motor. this will be on the same shaft as the one connected to the Down Rod, but at the rear of the Motor. The completed signal will normally be viewed from the front, so if I can keep the wires to the rear I can hopefully hide them from general view. To this end, I've decided to build two rocking bars inside the signal's bracket to transfer the motion of the wires out to the two outside dolls. To get at these for assembly etc. I needed to cut away most of the top and bottom surfaces of the bracket assembly, and this can be seen here: By now the Dolls and bracket support struts have been added. More to follow.........NEXT YEAR! Happy New Year Steve. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Motor driven "Distants"????... A very common feature of GWR distant signals is the use of Westinghouse Electric Signal Machines. This signal will require three of these, but I've never attempted to make a working model of them previously. On the prototype the "Backing Machine" as they are known (so I'm told) is mounted on the Right side of the Doll, below the Distant arm. There is a short crank at the front of the Machine which pushes the "Down Rod" upwards to move the arm to the Clear position. The machine includes a brake to hold the arm in position, and when this is released, the arm returns to Danger under gravity. All this information was provided to me by "LNERGE" following a request for help I Made here on RMweb. Such help from fellow modellers is really appreciated, and without it many of us would struggle. On the model the Distants will be operated by wires from servo motors below the baseboard, so what can I do to make them appear to be Motor Driven? I've decided to try to hide the operating wires from view as far as possible, and connect them to a second crank on each Westinghouse Motor. this will be on the same shaft as the one connected to the Down Rod, but at the rear of the Motor. The completed signal will normally be viewed from the front, so if I can keep the wires to the rear I can hopefully hide them from general view. To this end, I've decided to build two rocking bars inside the signal's bracket to transfer the motion of the wires out to the two outside dolls. To get at these for assembly etc. I needed to cut away most of the top and bottom surfaces of the bracket assembly, and this can be seen here: P1010577.jpg P1010745.jpg By now the Dolls and bracket support struts have been added. More to follow.........NEXT YEAR! Happy New Year Steve. And this is 4mm! It's very fine work indeed (neat and crisply accurate) and an example to all of us brass-manglers. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2014 Steve, Don't forget that the motor worked arm was returned to caution by the home returning to danger (assuming the lever was still reversed), which gives rise to the peculiar situation below. (Wrexham) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now