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Semaphore Signals - 4mm Scale (Mainly)


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  • RMweb Gold

Sky high ground discs........eventually.

 

Back in post #892 I mentioned there will be two "Elevated Ground Discs" to be made.

The signals are of LNER design, with Upper Quadrant movement; something I haven't built previously.

MSE do a nice little kit for these, a combination of White Metal castings and brass etches, so that's where I started.

 

Unfortunately, the castings when assembled don't quite align the Light with the Spectacles.

Having had some success with 3D printed Ground Signals of LNWR and SR (Westinghouse) design, I asked Les Green to design the LNER version for me. The model will eventually use the etched components from the MSE kit, they are excellent and readily available.

 

The general design follows our previous practice, with the bearings and route for the Optical Fibre accurately printed. The bearings are intentionally over length so they can be trimmed back to give correct operating clearance.

post-3984-0-25282400-1523464237_thumb.jpg

 

The base of the model also incorporates a boss which enables mounting directly into some 5/16in Tube which makes an excellent handle during construction and aligns the servos on installation.

The boss also has the appropriate locations for the "Operating Guide Tubes" which I use.

post-3984-0-02873200-1523464241_thumb.jpg

 

These are all the components to make the signal, including the MSE etches.

post-3984-0-76422600-1523464576_thumb.jpg

 

The guide tube for the operating wire is fitted.

post-3984-0-92551200-1523464580_thumb.jpg

 

The 5/16in brass tube, making a useful handle.

post-3984-0-00202400-1523464585_thumb.jpg

 

The optical fibre is installed.

post-3984-0-76219800-1523464589_thumb.jpg

 

Using my bench light as a source.

post-3984-0-79953100-1523464593_thumb.jpg

 

The MSE disc in place.

post-3984-0-04844200-1523464598_thumb.jpg

 

And the weight bar.

post-3984-0-16236500-1523464602_thumb.jpg

 

The operating wire formed to shape.

post-3984-0-18154800-1523464606_thumb.jpg

 

All the bits in place as a test build.

post-3984-0-33879200-1523464610_thumb.jpg

 

Having confirmed that the 3D printed body is a good basis for the model, I can progress to the pair of "Elevated Discs" required for Carlisle...........

 

More soon,

 

Steve.

 

 

 

 

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Thanks.

Yes, Shapeways.

Steve.

 

is that FUD ( frosted ultra Detail ) , I would like to discuss the issues in getting ground signals 3D printed , would it be possible to PM me with the chaps contact details who designed them so I could bounce my designs off him 

 

thanks 

 

Dave 

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  • RMweb Gold

3D Printed Components availability..........

 

I have received a number of enquiries from RMwebbers about the possibility of making available the 3D Printed components which Les Green creates for me.

I'm pleased to say that Les has created a "Shapeways Shop" where many of these, and other items Les has created for "Liverpool Lime Street" can be purchased.

You will find his shop here: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/railway-odds-and-ends

 

If you're not sure how to use any of the available signal components, I'll be more than happy to offer advice and guidance.

(They are designed around my way of operating and installing signals)

 

Steve.

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  • RMweb Gold

3D Printed Components availability..........

 

I have received a number of enquiries from RMwebbers about the possibility of making available the 3D Printed components which Les Green creates for me.

I'm pleased to say that Les has created a "Shapeways Shop" where many of these, and other items Les has created for "Liverpool Lime Street" can be purchased.

You will find his shop here: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/railway-odds-and-ends

 

If you're not sure how to use any of the available signal components, I'll be more than happy to offer advice and guidance.

(They are designed around my way of operating and installing signals)

 

Steve.

 

 

Just what I have been looking for - many thanks Steve

 

Phil

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  • RMweb Gold

Sky high ground discs........eventually.

-

-

-

Having confirmed that the 3D printed body is a good basis for the model, I can progress to the pair of "Elevated Discs" required for Carlisle...........

 

More soon,

 

Steve.

 

Soon is now here......

 

First the prototype:

post-3984-0-79932200-1524309310_thumb.jpg

 

The design seems to me to be a "one-off" with several distinctive features.

  • Lattice post
  • Left Hand bracket with Angle Iron trimmers and spandrels.
  • Left hand signal operated by a chain over a pulley, to a crank below the (extended) weight bar.
  • Right hand signal operated by a wire to the (again extended) weight bar.
  • Ladder several rungs taller than the post.
  • Very limited Handrail.
  • Rule 55 Diamond on each disc.

I started by making a scale "schematic drawing" of the model to check sizes etc:

 

Elevated Discs.pdf

 

The main post was made from an MSE etch in the usual way, and mounted on my standard foundations.

post-3984-0-43326700-1524309526_thumb.jpg

 

The Trimmers are made from 1.5 x 1.5mm Angle brass.

The curved Spandrels are made from 1.0 x 1.0mm Angle brass.

Curving these was easier than I anticipated:

  • I annealed a length of the angle brass by heating to red heat and allowing to cool.
  • I soldered together two pieces back to back, making a sort of "T" section.
  • I rolled this section to the correct curve, using my "Brass Assist" and then a foam pad.
  • Cut to correct length and un-soldered I had the two identical curved spandrels.

Assembled the bracket looks like this:

post-3984-0-08156100-1524309514_thumb.jpg

 

I think the prototype had the spandrels continuing round the post - a task for the Blacksmith.

I added the sides and rear from individual pieces, but they seem to have come out quite well:

post-3984-0-18631300-1524309522_thumb.jpg

 

I added 1.0 x 0.5mm brass strip for the platform support and made a plate from Nickel Silver into which the 3D printed signals will eventually be mounted:

post-3984-0-46276800-1524309534_thumb.jpg

 

So far we have:

post-3984-0-45849100-1524309530_thumb.jpg

 

More soon, I hope.....

Steve.

 

 

 

 

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  • RMweb Gold

.....continued.

 

In my earlier post I noted the usefulness of the cylindrical boss on the base of these signals when it comes to installation.

For these two signals however, the boss is somewhat of a problem. You can't hide it in the ground from sixteen feet in the air!

 

I held the boss of each signal in the lathe and carefully parted-off the signal, leaving only 0.45mm of the boss to enable location in the N/S plate I had made for the purpose.

 

This is what I had:

 

post-3984-0-78408200-1524768828_thumb.jpg

 

post-3984-0-90402400-1524768737_thumb.jpg

 

Adding the Handrail and Ladder:

 

post-3984-0-05709500-1524768743_thumb.jpg

 

Finally, trimming back the front overhang of both the signals and the N/S support:

 

post-3984-0-94369200-1524768747_thumb.jpg

 

At this stage it was obvious that the signals would need to be assembled before they could be fixed to their bracket, as there is insufficient space between the two to assemble the fiddly bits in-situ.

 

This meant that everything would now benefit from Painting, so a good clean and polish and off for a few light coats of Halford's best.

 

More soon............

 

Steve.

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Back from Painting...........

 

The first signal has been assembled as seen previously, but with the Weight Bar properly "Cranked" (I hope):

post-3984-0-54293000-1524930065_thumb.jpg

 

Sorry for the poor visibility:

post-3984-0-58429800-1524930069_thumb.jpg

You can see the optical fibre threaded from the lamp down through the structure.

 

From the front, you can see the operating wire temporarily attached to the extended Weight Bar:

post-3984-0-17989000-1524930073_thumb.jpg

 

The second signal has been added, and the optical fibres terminated and connected to their "Gas Light" LEDpost-3984-0-58311000-1524930213_thumb.jpg

 

From the front you can now see how the left hand signal is operated, with a Chain over Pulley, and a Crank:

post-3984-0-09454700-1524930089_thumb.jpg

 

The chain was the finest I could find at the recent York show.

It has been well tinned to make it rigid, and short lengths of N/S wire added to each end where it attaches to the "Pulley" and Crank:

post-3984-0-03981900-1524930077_thumb.jpg

 

Testing the movement of the discs:

post-3984-0-44078700-1524930085_thumb.jpg

 

post-3984-0-98759000-1524930298_thumb.jpg

 

At this stage the whole signal is ready to be installed on its "Transport & Test" frame, which simulates its eventual installation on the layout.

 

First thing to do is mount the servos such that the operating wires will align easily with the "Horns" (the arms on the servo motors):

post-3984-0-56683900-1524930225_thumb.jpg

Cobbled from pieces of ply glued together.

 

The lower ends of the operating wire have been sleeved with 1/32in brass tube to minimise buckling:

post-3984-0-61900700-1524930221_thumb.jpg

 

The connection between the operating wires and their servos is made with 1/16in brass tube, bent to shape.

This is soldered in position in a particular sequence:

  • Connect the servo to its GF Controller, which is set to "Safe" mode. i.e. the Horn is locked at mid-position.
  • Slide the 1/16 tube over the 1/32 tube and fit to its Horn.
  • Adjust the signal arm (Disc in this case) to a mid-position between danger and clear.
  • Apply a drop of solder to fix the 1/16 tube to the 1/32 tube.

    post-3984-0-47271300-1524930234_thumb.jpg

The GF Controller can now be set out of the "Safe" mode and the signal adjusted to Danger and Clear in the usual way:

post-3984-0-74181100-1524930237_thumb.jpg

 

post-3984-0-66661900-1524930244_thumb.jpg

 

post-3984-0-93967200-1524930247_thumb.jpg

 

I'll try to put a short video together............

Steve.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • RMweb Premium

Back from Painting...........

 

The first signal has been assembled as seen previously, but with the Weight Bar properly "Cranked" (I hope):

attachicon.gifP1030271.JPG

 

Sorry for the poor visibility:

attachicon.gifP1030272.JPG

You can see the optical fibre threaded from the lamp down through the structure.

 

From the front, you can see the operating wire temporarily attached to the extended Weight Bar:

attachicon.gifP1030273.JPG

 

The second signal has been added, and the optical fibres terminated and connected to their "Gas Light" LEDattachicon.gifP1030280.JPG

 

From the front you can now see how the left hand signal is operated, with a Chain over Pulley, and a Crank:

attachicon.gifP1030277.JPG

 

The chain was the finest I could find at the recent York show.

It has been well tinned to make it rigid, and short lengths of N/S wire added to each end where it attaches to the "Pulley" and Crank:

attachicon.gifP1030274.JPG

 

Testing the movement of the discs:

attachicon.gifP1030276.JPG

 

attachicon.gifP1030292.JPG

 

At this stage the whole signal is ready to be installed on its "Transport & Test" frame, which simulates its eventual installation on the layout.

 

First thing to do is mount the servos such that the operating wires will align easily with the "Horns" (the arms on the servo motors):

attachicon.gifP1030283.JPG

Cobbled from pieces of ply glued together.

 

The lower ends of the operating wire have been sleeved with 1/32in brass tube to minimise buckling:

attachicon.gifP1030282.JPG

 

The connection between the operating wires and their servos is made with 1/16in brass tube, bent to shape.

This is soldered in position in a particular sequence:

  • Connect the servo to its GF Controller, which is set to "Safe" mode. i.e. the Horn is locked at mid-position.
  • Slide the 1/16 tube over the 1/32 tube and fit to its Horn.
  • Adjust the signal arm (Disc in this case) to a mid-position between danger and clear.
  • Apply a drop of solder to fix the 1/16 tube to the 1/32 tube.

    attachicon.gifP1030286.JPG

The GF Controller can now be set out of the "Safe" mode and the signal adjusted to Danger and Clear in the usual way:

attachicon.gifP1030287.JPG

 

attachicon.gifP1030289.JPG

 

attachicon.gifP1030290.JPG

 

I'll try to put a short video together............

Steve.

You've cheated with the pulley Steve!!!!!

 

Can't say as I blame you...

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  • RMweb Gold

Back from Painting...........

 

The first signal has been assembled as seen previously, but with the Weight Bar properly "Cranked" (I hope):

attachicon.gifP1030271.JPG

 

Sorry for the poor visibility:

attachicon.gifP1030272.JPG

You can see the optical fibre threaded from the lamp down through the structure.

 

From the front, you can see the operating wire temporarily attached to the extended Weight Bar:

attachicon.gifP1030273.JPG

 

The second signal has been added, and the optical fibres terminated and connected to their "Gas Light" LEDattachicon.gifP1030280.JPG

 

From the front you can now see how the left hand signal is operated, with a Chain over Pulley, and a Crank:

attachicon.gifP1030277.JPG

 

The chain was the finest I could find at the recent York show.

It has been well tinned to make it rigid, and short lengths of N/S wire added to each end where it attaches to the "Pulley" and Crank:

attachicon.gifP1030274.JPG

 

Testing the movement of the discs:

attachicon.gifP1030276.JPG

 

attachicon.gifP1030292.JPG

 

At this stage the whole signal is ready to be installed on its "Transport & Test" frame, which simulates its eventual installation on the layout.

 

First thing to do is mount the servos such that the operating wires will align easily with the "Horns" (the arms on the servo motors):

attachicon.gifP1030283.JPG

Cobbled from pieces of ply glued together.

 

The lower ends of the operating wire have been sleeved with 1/32in brass tube to minimise buckling:

attachicon.gifP1030282.JPG

 

The connection between the operating wires and their servos is made with 1/16in brass tube, bent to shape.

This is soldered in position in a particular sequence:

  • Connect the servo to its GF Controller, which is set to "Safe" mode. i.e. the Horn is locked at mid-position.
  • Slide the 1/16 tube over the 1/32 tube and fit to its Horn.
  • Adjust the signal arm (Disc in this case) to a mid-position between danger and clear.
  • Apply a drop of solder to fix the 1/16 tube to the 1/32 tube.

    attachicon.gifP1030286.JPG

The GF Controller can now be set out of the "Safe" mode and the signal adjusted to Danger and Clear in the usual way:

attachicon.gifP1030287.JPG

 

attachicon.gifP1030289.JPG

 

attachicon.gifP1030290.JPG

 

I'll try to put a short video together............

Steve.

 

You now gone beyond crafstmanship/clever Steve.

 

Mike.

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Elevated disc signal looks great, some photos of where it will go.

 

post-1643-0-00196600-1525024942_thumb.jpg

 

These are the Rome Street up home signals (looking south), the one on the right is non-working as this line just goes into the wall. Behind the working one (stop signals only, all the distants on the Carlisle goods lines were fixed) is the turnout to the Metal Box factory siding and a trailing crossover, the elevated discs control movement into these. Rome Street box is visible above the bridge parapet - perhaps these signals wer elevated to give the signalman a view of them?

 

post-1643-0-68288400-1525025241_thumb.jpg

 

Rome Street down home signals (looking north), the junction itself is right under the bridge.

 

 

post-1643-0-26009700-1525025191_thumb.jpg

 

Next group of signals will be for this junction, Dentonholme South, again one line just goes into the wall. Just past the signal box is one of the bridges over the river Caldew, in the distance two home signal protect the exit of a loop extending from Viaduct Goods.

 

Unlike Citadel station, which is exactly to scale, the goods lines are distorted to fit in the width of the room so there are a few compromises along them.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • RMweb Gold

Hi all,

 

I have been looking into the idea of using miniature stepper motors rather than servos. Has anyone else tried this?

I certainly haven't.

They are used very successfully on Liverpool Lime Street to control the two turntables and the sector plate.

I would think the difficult bit would be making the control system, particularly if you want to have variable speeds, etc.

 

Steve.

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  • RMweb Gold

The next signal for Carlisle........

 

Is the "Denton Holme South Jct." Down Home.

 

Here's the prototype:

 

post-3984-0-25985500-1527103297.jpg

 

This signal is an LMS/BR balanced bracket with a tubular main stem.

Only the right hand arm will be working, as the left hand arm controls a route which runs straight into the wall.

 

The heart of the model is the bracket which holds it all together.

I've followed my previous practice, using 4mm square brass turnings to hold the trimmers at the correct distance apart.

These have been drilled in the lathe to take the main stem and the two dolls.

 

post-3984-0-10078600-1527103873_thumb.jpg

 

The two brackets are from N/S etches made for me by Les Green and the cast "shoe" is another of his, this time cast in resin.

 

post-3984-0-05430500-1527103862_thumb.jpg

 

The pivots for the rocking shafts are 7mm scale handrail knobs.

 

post-3984-0-72166100-1527103867_thumb.jpg

 

More soon-ish.

This weather is not good for hiding away in the workshop. :sungum:

 

Steve.

 

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