6959 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I am trying to compile a simple list of GWR carriage formations ideally for late 1930s to 1947 and into early 1950s Western Region, where applicable. Please can anyone amend, emend or expand this sample list which is not necesarily accurate for 1940s? A set - brake third, all third, first, third, brake third B set - brake composite, brake composite C set - ? D set - brake third, composite, composite, brake third E - and others letters, if used? M set - brake third, all third, composite, brake third W set - brake composite, all third, all third, all third, all third, all third, brake composite The purpose is to use it as a single page job sheet to build various carriage formations in categories: branch line (non-gangway), semi fast (older corridor stock) and express (front line corridor stock). The intended coaching stock is various RTR models in 00 scale from Aifix/GMR, Mainline, Lima, Dapol, Replica, Bachmann and Hornby. Typically from an Airfix autocoach via Replica Colletts to Hornby Hawksworths and Bachmann MK1s. Thanks in advance. {As my two pennyworth's to the cause, I have posted a link to a useful late 1950s, early 1960s web page that I found helpful whilst digging for this information}. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 This is the bible I use for GWR formations http://www.transportdiversions.com/publicationshow.asp?pubid=3658 Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 6, 2012 One point to note is that some of the designations varied and were not uniform across all Districts/Divisions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6959 Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 I found what I was looking for in post #13 in the following page on this forum. http://www.rmweb.co....-coach-numbers/ Thank You Mike. (And to Chris in other posts). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6959 Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 This is the bible I use for GWR formations http://www.transport....asp?pubid=3658 Mike Wiltshire I looked on the usual web sources for books and they all say that this title is out of print. So, off to ebay for a used copy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Not sure of the location of your layout but same publisher does train formation books for Cornwall and Torquay though it is for the late 1950's OPERATION CORNWALL (Railway Operations in 1957. Plymouth to Penzance and branches) OPERATION TORBAY (Railway Operations in 1957. Newton Abbot to Paignton and Kingswear) http://www.xpresspublishing.co.uk/DC16_AD_low_res.pdf Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted August 9, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 9, 2012 If you are after set formations for Devon they are listed in the book The Great Western in South Devon. Unfortunately I can't give further details as I am not at home to put my hands on it. But it does give details of the set formations as they changed. There is also a list of London Division sets in one of the Great Western Journals. Cheers SS If you are after set formations for Devon they are listed in the book The Great Western in South Devon. Unfortunately I can't give further details as I am not at home to put my hands on it. But it does give details of the set formations as they changed. There is also a list of London Division sets in one of the Great Western Journals. Cheers SS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted August 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2012 I too have this book and its highly recommended as you would expect from a Wild Swan publication. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Robin, Which book are you referring to please? There has now been a few mentioned and I am not sure whose message you are replying to. Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted August 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2012 Robin, Which book are you referring to please? There has now been a few mentioned and I am not sure whose message you are replying to. Khris Sorry Khris. Its 'The Great Western in South Devon' by Keith Beck and John Copsey ISBN 0906867908 http://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/isbn/0906867908/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Thank you sir. Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 How good it is to return from holiday and find that this topic has returned to the table! A few for the collection: K set - 6 coach corridor set: Van Third, Third, Composite, Composite, Third, Van Third. This comes from the Bristol CWP for 1951 courtesy Tim V Q set - 5 coach non-corridor set: Van Third, Third, Composite, Third, Van Third. Note that this formation was the standard in the Cardiff Valleys after September 1953 but were called "Standard 5 Coach Set" without being dignified with a name! C sets - hmmm. I've not found any outside London where they were called Local C. They comprised Van Third, Third, Composite, Composite, Third, Van Third. After the through trains to the Metropolitan Line for which they were built ceased at the outbreak of war they were given specific duties in the London area. One or two of them turned up in the Bristol area later on and were known as something like 'low roofed close coupled sets' but scatterbrain here can't find the reference. The W sets in the Bristol area were non-corridor. One had five Thirds, the rest four. To judge by the duties that they carried out I would guess that W stands for Workmen. Oh, and just to prise the can of worms open a bit more widely, the M Sets were not always described as such in carriage working programmes! Did someone refer to the GWR as a very individual railway?! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 K set - 6 coach corridor set: Van Third, Third, Composite, Composite, Third, Van Third. This comes from the Bristol CWP for 1951 courtesy Tim V This is the formation that the 57' bow-ended Colletts (Hornby Collett) were built for, with right- and left-handed brakes and compos so that the corridor could run down one side of the formation while keeping the vans on the ends and the firsts in the middle. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6959 Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 From the forgoing discussion, I have compiled the following A to Z list of GWR and WR coach sets. It is my crib sheet for marshalling coaches to play. It is not intended to be Kosher and will change as I find more information. Offered here As-Is. Thanks to Chris, Adrian and others. A set - 4 coach non-corridor - van 3rd, first, third, van 3rd {London 1937} A set - 5 coach non-corridor - van 3rd, third, first, third, van 3rd {London 1937} B set - non-corridor: brake composite, brake composite {WR 1956-60} C set - 'Local C': non-corridor - van 3rd, third, composite, composite, third, van 3rd {London 1937} C set ? alternative: non-corridor - van 3rd, third, first, lav compo, van 3rd {London 1937} D set - non-corridor? - van 3rd, composite, composite, van 3rd {London 1937} E Set - non-corridor? - 3rd, first, third, van 3rd {London 1937} E set alternative?: van 3rd, composite E set - brake composite, lavatory third, van 3rd {Exeter, Plymouth 1938} E set - third, brake 3rd, composite {Exeter, Plymouth after 1938} F Set ? no information G Set - non-corridor? - van 3rd, third, compo, compo, compo, van {London 1937} H Set - non-corridor: van 3rd, lavatory composite, van 3rd {London 1937} I set ? ? no information J set? ? no information K set - 6 coach corridor - van 3rd, third, composite, composite, third, van 3rd {Bristol 1951} {This comes from the Bristol CWP for 1951 courtesy Tim V} {This is the formation that the 57' bow-ended Colletts (Hornby) were built for, with right- and left-handed brakes and compos so that the corridor could run down one side of the formation while keeping the vans on the ends and the composite's first sections together in the middle. Adrian} K set - 6 corridor - brake 2nd, second, composite, composite, second, brake 2nd {WR Exeter 1959-60}. L set? ? no information M set - 4 coach non-corridor - van 3rd, third, lavatory composite, van 3rd {Exeter 1938} M set - 4 coach corridor - brake 2nd, second, composite, brake 2nd {WR 1956-60} O set? ? no information P set? ? no information Q set - 5 coach non-corridor - van 3rd, third, third, composite, third, van 3rd {Standard in the Cardiff Valleys after September 1953 but were called "Standard 5 Coach Set" - Chris} R set? ? no information S set? ? no information T set? ? no information U Set - 3 coach - van 3rd, composite, van 3rd {Exeter 1938} V set ? No information W set - non-corridor - brake composite, third, third, third, third, third, brake composite {or van 3rd?} W set - non-corridor - brake composite, third, third, third, third, brake composite {or van 3rd?} K? Set - non-corridor - brake compo E157, third C75, third C75, brake compo E157 {Avonmouth 1938} {During the war they had extra thirds added but only set 1 had a C43. Some reformation took place when the Hawksworth suburbans came out.} [Railway Observer December 1951] Some Named Expresses. Bristolian 1957-61 7 coach - BCK, FK, FK, BUFFET, SK, SK, BCK 8 coach - BCK, FK, FK, BUFFET, SK, SK, BCK + SK [Monday only] Cambrian Coast Express 1961 7 coach - BSK/ SK/ FK/ RU/ FK/ SK/ BSK Cambrian Coast Express 1962 10 coach - BSK/ SK/ FK/ FK/ CK/ SK/ BSK plus RB/ SO/ BSK Cornish Riviera Express BTK (LH van), TK, TK, RTO, RF, CK, BTK (RH van) + TK, BCK, BCK ++ CK, BTK (RH), BCK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Some Named Expresses. Bristolian 1957-61 7 coach - BCK, FK, FK, BUFFET, SK, SK, BCK 8 coach - BCK, FK, FK, BUFFET, SK, SK, BCK + SK [Monday only] The information I have is that the Bristolian was strengthened on a Friday where the Castle was exchanged for a King - the only day booked for King haulage. Railway Roundabout featured the train in one of its episodes. The BUFFET is an interesting stock roster. Despite the widespread use of Mk1 stock, including the chocolate and cream Mk1's in use on the Bristolian, the BUFFET was an ex GWR vehicle, several coaches being rebuilt and updated including 'Pullan' style gangway adaptors for use with Mk1 stock. Even when the Bristolian was dieselised in 1959, the GWR BUFFET's were still used. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 6959, I'm not sure that the Avonmouth sets were known by any other name. Apart from that, you have done an amazing job in drawing this subject together. As Coach Bogie says, the use of GW design catering vehicles in named trains continued for a considerable time after 1956. This was partly because there were at that time no BR standard catering vehicles other than the triplet sets built for the Festival of Britain trains in 1951, five restaurant firsts and the prototypes of the RU, RB and RKB. The Bristolian had to wait until September 1961 for its BR buffet car, W1646. The Red Dragon finally got its BR dining pair in January 1962, some three months before the decision was taken to give up on chocolate and cream. We are fortunate that the Railway Observer carried much information on the life and times of GW dining cars, presumably because one RCTS member took an even closer interest in them than in other types of coaching stock. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Cornish Riviera Express BTK (LH van), TK, TK, RTO, RF, CK, BTK (RH van) + TK, BCK, BCK ++ CK, BTK (RH), BCK This is the intended formation of the 10 coach Centenary sets (++ are the spare coaches built for each set) with the corridor running down the south side of the set. It would have had other BCK and/or slip portions in service (potentially for Reading, Westbury. Taunton, Exeter, and/or Plymouth), as what is shown is the intended 'west of Plymouth' formation, including the portions for Falmouth (BCK) and St. Ives (TK, BCK), They did not necessarily conform to the intended formation, particularly after the firs year. The CKs were left-handed to put the first-class compartments next to the first-class dining area. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR8700 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Would an E set in the Plymouth region pre 1937 have been gangway or non gangway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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