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Rail Express September 2012


jonathan452

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Briefly -

 

Newsdesk

 

Reviews: Bachmann Derby Lightweight DMU and ‘cowled’ Class 37; Kernow Mk.2a coaches; Graham Farish items

 

A Wider View - Modelling: ‘Sturgeons’/D&E Files: ‘Sturgeons’

 

Layout Pictorial: Western Road

 

Exhibition diary

 

Serial: Elcot Road #20 - Signalling

 

Modelling: Class 37 facelift

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I had a read today - <shakes head>, some very basic mistakes in there

 

Parts of the article were read over the phone from Gilberdyke to Paragon - the response included laughter!

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Parts of the article were read over the phone from Gilberdyke to Paragon - the response included laughter!

A copy of it reached me and my flabber was well and truly gasted - yet again people who might wish to learn about or even start to understand the various aspects of British signalling have been led up the garden path by a load of rubbish (fortunately I have just managed restrain myself from being rude about the content of this amazingly stupid article. But then if they couldn't get it right in MRJ one can rightfully wonder what hope there is for other publications?).

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The other point I forgot to mention was quite a few of the photos used have been very over processed, typically over sharpened which affects the colour saturation significantly, giving a strange "nuclear" effect.

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It's all very well those in the know saying that the article is cr*p but how about letting the ignorant of us know what is wrong with it and what the correct description should be. Very often there is criticism about signalling articles but nothing is forthcoming about what it should be. Knowledge is not much good if it's kept secret. I'm sure there are many who would like to learn something about signalling without having to spend five years studying it.

 

 

G.

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It's all very well those in the know saying that the article is cr*p but how about letting the ignorant of us know what is wrong with it and what the correct description should be. Very often there is criticism about signalling articles but nothing is forthcoming about what it should be. Knowledge is not much good if it's kept secret. I'm sure there are many who would like to learn something about signalling without having to spend five years studying it.

G.

 

That's a bit unfair Graham - Phil knows me from my Mostyn days and knows about my signalling interest, so he could have been in touch if he had so wanted, I would have written the article for the normal fees or proof read it for the usual consultancy fees.

A quick glance on here would show others who could assist and this isn't the only forum. At least one of the mistakes is so basic that a 30 second search and read would have prevented them - google is also an article writers friend.

 

There are plenty of examples of signalling within this forum where various people have helped others get their models (signals) right, people only have to ask to get assistance, it's not down to those of us who know about such things to hunt them out.

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Very often there is criticism about signalling articles but nothing is forthcoming about what it should be.

 

Well I've e-mailed discussing the points in the article - the silly thing is that all the information is out there. The current Rule Book is available online for all to see so a lack of research has no real excuse. In this case, starting again is easier than correcting it. The article is best avoided as all it will do is confuse. It not to the standard I've come to expect from REM.

 

The sad thing is I've really enjoyed the author's other articles in REM and elsewhere.

 

Knowledge is not much good if it's kept secret.

 

And mis-information is even worse than none at all!

 

I'm sure there are many who would like to learn something about signalling without having to spend five years studying it.

 

I think you'll find there are plenty of people here who share their knowledge very freely.

 

You don't need five years - a holiday in Watford did it for me!

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I think Rail Express does a pretty good job, has matured over the years and has helped move Diesel & Electric modelling to centre stage

 

That's not in question, but it only serves to show the disappointment with the article in question.

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Well I've e-mailed discussing the points in the article - the silly thing is that all the information is out there. The current Rule Book is available online for all to see so a lack of research has no real excuse. In this case, starting again is easier than correcting it. The article is best avoided as all it will do is confuse. It not to the standard I've come to expect from REM.

 

The sad thing is I've really enjoyed the author's other articles in REM and elsewhere.

 

And mis-information is even worse than none at all!

 

I think you'll find there are plenty of people here who share their knowledge very freely.

 

You don't need five years - a holiday in Watford did it for me!

Some very good points in there James.

 

To answer Grahame a bit further - I will repeat the above 'all you have to do is ask' but I would add that several of us are regularly drawing attention to what should be avoided in the mags and books when it comes to so-called 'explanations of signalling' and at least letting you know what not to read is a bit better than letting you fall for it I think.

 

Secondly it is not a difficult subject provided it is explained properly and to be blunt only someone who really understands it is ever going to be able to do that. If you understand the basic principles and why they exist/have developed over the years plus how they are used you should be able to explain them - it's just that the author of this particular article clearly doesn't understand them (and the chap who wrote the MRJ article didn't wholly understand them either). Beyond the basic principles (some of which I have already set-out in various threads on here) there are matters of detail differences between Companies/BR Regions but these are usually easy to understand once you know the basics.

 

Those of us with some of the knowledge are always - it seems willing to share it on here; some of us have had it as a hobby interest for many years in one way or another, some of us have had professional involvement with it on the big railway (although in my case 30 years since I was involved in re-drafting the Signalling Regulations but I have drafted some stuff for NR in more recent years) and some of us have professional involvement in it in 'the wider prototype scene' of today.

 

Meanwhile fellah up north you'd best get the draft back to me so I can have a chat with the publisher again because in there all is explained although it's few years since I put it together and it does need a re-work.

 

PS I have now done two successive Members' Days where I have been happy to sit at a table and explain various aspects of signalling to whoever has come and asked and, the boss being agreeable, I'm quite happy to carry on doing that in the future.

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It's all very well those in the know saying that the article is cr*p but how about letting the ignorant of us know what is wrong with it and what the correct description should be. Very often there is criticism about signalling articles but nothing is forthcoming about what it should be. Knowledge is not much good if it's kept secret. I'm sure there are many who would like to learn something about signalling without having to spend five years studying it.

 

 

G.

 

Hi Grahame

 

I too would like to know what was wrong, apart form James stating the Rule Book is on line so far there has been nothing on this thread to help those who do not understand signalling.

 

Clive

 

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book/Forms/Live_Documents.aspx Link to the rule book.

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That's a bit unfair Graham - Phil knows me from my Mostyn days and knows about my signalling interest, so he could have been in touch if he had so wanted, I would have written the article for the normal fees or proof read it for the usual consultancy fees.

A quick glance on here would show others who could assist and this isn't the only forum. At least one of the mistakes is so basic that a 30 second search and read would have prevented them - google is also an article writers friend.

 

There are plenty of examples of signalling within this forum where various people have helped others get their models (signals) right, people only have to ask to get assistance, it's not down to those of us who know about such things to hunt them out.

 

I too would like to know what was wrong, apart form James stating the Rule Book is on line so far there has been nothing on this thread to help those who do not understand signalling.

 

My comments still apply.

 

We aren't here to correct magazine articles where the editors could have come to us in the first place, but, speaking personally, I'm happy to help with specific questions.

 

I didn't buy the magazine so couldn't quote the article anyway but one error that sticks in my mind was the comment about the distant and home being off for a stopping train, and the starter only being cleared when the train was ready to leave - this is wrong for two reasons, generally the signals would be cleared anyway (except on a single line perhaps), and if the signals were indeed to be held at danger, the distant would be on, as would the home until the train was seen to be under control - that's a quick answer.

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Hi Beast

 

Thanks.

Even I know that is wrong. Back in my trainspotting days I learnt if the signal at the end of the platform was pointing up in the air then a train was cleared to proceed even if it was to stop at the station. The only time it remained in the stop position was when there was a potential danger ahead, like a conflicting movement at a junction station, the next section still had a train on it, or at a passing station on a single line. In all cases the distant would be at danger. Wasn't the distant interlocked so it could not be pulled until all the home signals it was associated with had been?

 

Clive

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Wasn't the distant interlocked so it could not be pulled until all the home signals it was associated with had been?

 

Correct, and sometimes there was something called interworking where the signalman had to wait until the next signalbox had cleared it's signals, used where the sections were short.

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As another regular reader of REM, but not this issue yet, I'd support Beast's comments because trying to explain signalling generally is ok but so many instances there are multilple solutions because of varying factors such as type of traffic, linespeed etc. It's much easier as Beast and Stationmaster do regularly to assist people, (free), on here after they have posted an actual plan and described the workings they want. Even then there are regional variations in how they preferred to do it which is why I tend to stick to Southern Region topics as it's what I was trained on. ;)

Look through the forum and you'll find these guys regularly helping people for free.

To answer the stated flaws in the REM article would mean quoting it and retyping it out to put it all in context so it would be much easier for someone writing for publication to consult experts first. Using forums, such as this, or the Signalling Record Society to check offer a quick and free way to check specialist fields like signalling before publication. The forums also have the advantage of allowing question and answer to make it clear to anyone reading it where the level of knowledge actually is so don't tend to be taken as gospel until you have enough facts clarified unlike an already and supposedly researched article.

My own guide to RhB signalling was discussed at length on the RhB forum with a driver who used it every day cross referenced with several articles before I put it down as fact on here, (and I'll admit I did make an error in the diagrams which I quickly altered as they were causing confusion).

Signalling isn't simple but it isn't rocket science either and all that is required to clear things up is a layout plan and basic operational details for models, or photos or plans of a real installation which will allow those with experience in the field to at least have a well educated guess at why certain things were done if not a definitive answer.

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Guest jim s-w

The other point I forgot to mention was quite a few of the photos used have been very over processed, typically over sharpened which affects the colour saturation significantly, giving a strange "nuclear" effect.

 

Thats why you should always sharpen in the lightness channel of LAB mode - doesnt affect the colour then. Its probably a bit much to ask an editor of a mag to know how to finish an image properly though (you kinda need the photographer to supply properly finished images but given that I worked with hundreds of them over the years A lot of photographers dont have a clue either.

 

That's a bit unfair Graham - Phil knows me from my Mostyn days and knows about my signalling interest, so he could have been in touch if he had so wanted, I would have written the article for the normal fees or proof read it for the usual consultancy fees.

 

Phil has had nothing to do with REX for a while now Dave

 

Cheers

 

Jim

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Gareth aint there either - he's in Japan Simon B is the editor now.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

Only quoting the website .. (but yes, I remember he did eventually get to Japan), but I guess the website probably gives a clue as to how much checking goes on ...

 

http://railexpress.c.../23-Contact-Us/

 

 

Rail Express Editor

Murray Brown editor@railexpress.co.uk

Rail Express Modeller Editor:

Gareth Bayer g.bayer@railexpress.co.uk

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I too would like to know what was wrong, apart form James stating the Rule Book is on line so far there has been nothing on this thread to help those who do not understand signalling.

 

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book/Forms/Live_Documents.aspx Link to the rule book.

 

I'd actually suggest that trying to correct the article could cause more confusion.

 

A better way in terms of the layout concerned would have been to show the layout of the signalling and the prototypes on which is was based.

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