DC vs. DCC

[Guest]

Hi there everyone,

 

I have been recently enquiring lots about my layout track plan, how to wire it all up and what sort of points to use (electrofrog or insulfrog) but now I am beginning to consider DCC. I just think the idea of being able to have two or more trains on the same track and control each one individually so cool and would definitely boost the fun of operating for me... I could spend hours playing around lol.

 

But every time I consider DCC I always get put off by a few things...

 

1) The price - the controllers seem to be really expensive from what I have seen and for each loco you buy you also need to buy a decoder for it - and I believe these are quite expensive as well...

 

2) The complexity - I find all this wiring and stuff really hard and confusing, especially these electrofrog points - can't get my head round all the feeds needing to be in the right place and the correct use of IRJ's. And then all the wiring, I will need feeds to every single piece of track wont I? That will cost more and take me and my dad longer to do.

 

 

Whenever I think of these things I just keep getting put off but then I remember someone saying something like "a beginner coming into the hobby would be stupid not to go for DCC these days" and to a certain degree I think that is a fair point. But I just don't have the money for all these extra things. Sometimes I just feel like saying stuff it and going for DC with a Morley Vesta controller and just using insulfrog points - much easier. But then every time I do I keep thinking about how cool DCC would be and how much more reliable it is, like for slow running and other things...

 

Would should I be looking at? Like what system, I have heard people saying the Hornby ones aren't very good... should I be getting like a Bachmann starter set or are these controllers not very good either...?

 

 

 

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated,

 

 

Thanks, Oli

[Suzie]

You will need to wire the points up the same for reliable operation on DC just as you would for DCC, there is no difference. In the same way that a lot of people don't bother to make modifications on DC layouts you don't have to if you don't want to on DCC either, but you might as well do it correctly from the start.Wiring live frog points is no harder than dead frog so it is a no-brainer to ignore dead frogs as a 1970s aberration that should by now be long forgotten.

 

Since the Morley controller will cost more than a basic DCC system (and more than some more advanced systems like the Roco MultiMaus) your only real cost of going DCC is the cost of adding decoders to your locos, a small cost which will be offset by not having to wire a control panel (a very expensive part of any analogue layout). Just think of ten isolating/section switches being around the equivalent cost of a loco decoder and take it from there.

 

That is why you should think very carefully before considering DC - it will probably cost you more!

[Guest]

Thank you very much for your reply Suzie, much appreciated.

 

"Since the Morley controller will cost more than a basic DCC system"

Will it!? I thought DCC systems were around £150 upwards, the Morley Vesta is only £70...

 

"a small cost which will be offset by not having to wire a control panel (a very expensive part of any analogue layout). Just think of ten isolating/section switches being around the equivalent cost of a loco decoder and take it from there."

Wow you are right, never thought of that - is that why some people say DCC wiring is actually easier than DC lol?

 

Hmmm you have made my views change slightly, still need some more advice and guidance from a few others though before making a finla decision.

 

 

But thanks again Suzie,

 

Oli

[Suzie]

Here is a Multimaus complete brand new system in the UK:-

Multimaus buy-it-now on Ebay

 

When shops are breaking up their unsold trainsets after Christmas the price might be even lower.

 

Simpler systems like the Bachmann E-Z Command or the older Roco LokMaus2 will be available for less, but probably not cheap enough to be worth considering. I paid £40 for a complete LokMaus2 system brand new, and that was when it was the current top of the range offering from Roco, so you really don't need to spend £150 just to dip your toe in the water.

 

Not having to do the panel wiring is a really big boon that a lot of people will concur with.

[mikeg]

Oli, I have just built and wired up an On16.5 layout and did it for DCC, the wiring was simple, just two bus wires from end to end with the conection between boards by plug type choc blocks cut into 2's, the rails conected to the two wires at the nearest point, i.e. very short lengths of wire used. Total time to wire up 4 hrs. Cost nil as all wire used was from scrap cable, 30amp mains for the bus wires and computer network cable for the droppers that came out of a skip many years ago when the company I worked for upgraded their network system. Yes the main cost has been the chips for the loco's at £15.75 each, 3 No so far just to get going, but that has been spead over two months and the next two months will see another two bought to complete the loco stock.

 

My main layout is O gauge and again, went DCC partly due to not being able to face wiring up all the sections I would require, plus the cost of all the switches, £170 using the cheapest I could find, with DCC I have two switches, one for the turntable control the other for the layout lighting. The wiring is again all from the scrap bin and VERY simple, not all sections of rail have been connected, but most rail joints have a jumper if required.

 

So my advice is go DCC as you will have better control, and in the end if you spead the cost and not chip all locos at once, and when bying new get them with chips in, it is cheaper, and I would also recommend that you try the control systems to find the right one for you. I have a Prodigy 2 which I like that has a fixed controller ie on a lead, plus I bought the wireless unit, due to the position of my layout. If I was starting now I would buy the NCE power pro system as I think it is slightly better and cheaper than the prodigy but not quite as user friendly.

 

regards

 

mike g

[pheaton]

DCC vs DC as you we know has advantages and disadvantages..

 

i would say its harder to convert to dcc than it is to start out with it...electrofrog points are quite east to get the hang of.....double and single slips however

 

you started mentioning about controllers, i guess you pay your money and take your choice, lower priced controllers have less functionality than the top of the line controllers. But i would choose a controller that suits 3 things...

 

1,) Most importantly YOU!

 

2,) Your Budget

 

3,) Your Layout

 

to me it depends on how many locomotives you have and what you plan to do with them.

 

When i converted to DCC i started out with an EZ-Command a limited but very cheap system, when i was sure i was sticking with DCC i looked at the next level up and came to look at two controllers

 

1 Bachmann Dynamis

 

2 Hornby Elite

 

In the end i chose the Hornby Elite as for a small amount more it had a bigger power supply and was able to address 256 locomotives where as the dynamis was only able to roster 40.

 

however the dynamis's UI us vastly superior to hornbys and its much more easier to use. Hornby have remedied this by various firmware upgrades which made the operation easier, but the two control knobs to dynamis's 1 and the programming features meant i found the elite much better for my needs.

 

3 years and 106 locomotives later its still going strong and ive got no plans to replace it!

 

still a clunkly UI though but this is how i resolved it...

 

 

The elite is linked to a TC1100 tablet on the right its a 13.2inch touchscreen PC with a 1.6ghz intel centrino cpu 2gb Ram running windows XP, with an 80gbhdd its wireless USB and fully blue tooth....sound expensive? no it was £45 from ebay (its quite an old machine)!! Its used soley for internet browsing and operating my layout via the railmaster interface, if i dont like the railmaster i can use other apps to control my elite...so ive easily resolved my interface problems and my operation and programming abilities are a simple mouse click!

 

So the massive advantage with DCC is the possibilities are endless, just remember to try before you buy!

By all means listen to opinion but dont take it as gospel, go to a shop, a freind and have a play.

[Guest]

Here is a Multimaus complete brand new system in the UK:-

Multimaus buy-it-now on Ebay

 

When shops are breaking up their unsold trainsets after Christmas the price might be even lower.

 

Simpler systems like the Bachmann E-Z Command or the older Roco LokMaus2 will be available for less, but probably not cheap enough to be worth considering. I paid £40 for a complete LokMaus2 system brand new, and that was when it was the current top of the range offering from Roco, so you really don't need to spend £150 just to dip your toe in the water.

 

Not having to do the panel wiring is a really big boon that a lot of people will concur with.

 

Thanks for the reply Suzie, thanks for that link - seems really good and cheap, almost to good to be true lol...

 

Wow not heard of Roco before but £40 seems like a great bargain - and brand new as well... how are you finding it now? (have you still got it?)

 

Yeah I can see the appeal it not having to have a massive control panel with loads of switches and stuff...

 

 

Thanks again, Oli

[Guest]

Oli, I have just built and wired up an On16.5 layout and did it for DCC, the wiring was simple, just two bus wires from end to end with the conection between boards by plug type choc blocks cut into 2's, the rails conected to the two wires at the nearest point, i.e. very short lengths of wire used. Total time to wire up 4 hrs. Cost nil as all wire used was from scrap cable, 30amp mains for the bus wires and computer network cable for the droppers that came out of a skip many years ago when the company I worked for upgraded their network system. Yes the main cost has been the chips for the loco's at £15.75 each, 3 No so far just to get going, but that has been spead over two months and the next two months will see another two bought to complete the loco stock.

 

My main layout is O gauge and again, went DCC partly due to not being able to face wiring up all the sections I would require, plus the cost of all the switches, £170 using the cheapest I could find, with DCC I have two switches, one for the turntable control the other for the layout lighting. The wiring is again all from the scrap bin and VERY simple, not all sections of rail have been connected, but most rail joints have a jumper if required.

 

So my advice is go DCC as you will have better control, and in the end if you spead the cost and not chip all locos at once, and when bying new get them with chips in, it is cheaper, and I would also recommend that you try the control systems to find the right one for you. I have a Prodigy 2 which I like that has a fixed controller ie on a lead, plus I bought the wireless unit, due to the position of my layout. If I was starting now I would buy the NCE power pro system as I think it is slightly better and cheaper than the prodigy but not quite as user friendly.

 

regards

 

mike g

 

Yes I was thinking of using the bus wire method if I went DCC - seems to be the most widely used and simplest I think. Wow 4 hours hey? Not bad that... and cost: £0 - really good! What chips do you use? Because at £15.75 each I was surprised - I thought people said they were about £40 for a good chip. And yes good idea about spreading the cost, I only have five locos at the minute so it shouldn't be too bad - maybe I could buy a new chip every week then it would only take five weeks to do it lol.

 

What is a jumper? Is that like two wires connecting to the next piece of track or something?

 

Yes I am being twisted towards DCC now, I would like to try them out - only thing is I am not a member of any clubs and I don't have any friends that are into modelling. So it would have to be my model shop but then they probably wouldn't stock many - they are fairly small.... How much was the Prodigy 2 if you don't mind me asking...? Will check out that NCE power pro - I am sure I have heard the name NCE before - that's a first lol - I actually understand something! Yay!

 

 

Thanks again Mike, you have been very helpful,

 

 

Oli

[Guest]

DCC vs DC as you we know has advantages and disadvantages..

 

i would say its harder to convert to dcc than it is to start out with it...electrofrog points are quite east to get the hang of.....double and single slips however

 

you started mentioning about controllers, i guess you pay your money and take your choice, lower priced controllers have less functionality than the top of the line controllers. But i would choose a controller that suits 3 things...

 

1,) Most importantly YOU!

 

2,) Your Budget

 

3,) Your Layout

 

to me it depends on how many locomotives you have and what you plan to do with them.

 

When i converted to DCC i started out with an EZ-Command a limited but very cheap system, when i was sure i was sticking with DCC i looked at the next level up and came to look at two controllers

 

1 Bachmann Dynamis

 

2 Hornby Elite

 

In the end i chose the Hornby Elite as for a small amount more it had a bigger power supply and was able to address 256 locomotives where as the dynamis was only able to roster 40.

 

however the dynamis's UI us vastly superior to hornbys and its much more easier to use. Hornby have remedied this by various firmware upgrades which made the operation easier, but the two control knobs to dynamis's 1 and the programming features meant i found the elite much better for my needs.

 

3 years and 106 locomotives later its still going strong and ive got no plans to replace it!

 

still a clunkly UI though but this is how i resolved it...

 

 

The elite is linked to a TC1100 tablet on the right its a 13.2inch touchscreen PC with a 1.6ghz intel centrino cpu 2gb Ram running windows XP, with an 80gbhdd its wireless USB and fully blue tooth....sound expensive? no it was £45 from ebay (its quite an old machine)!! Its used soley for internet browsing and operating my layout via the railmaster interface, if i dont like the railmaster i can use other apps to control my elite...so ive easily resolved my interface problems and my operation and programming abilities are a simple mouse click!

 

So the massive advantage with DCC is the possibilities are endless, just remember to try before you buy!

By all means listen to opinion but dont take it as gospel, go to a shop, a freind and have a play.

 

Thanks also for your reply Pheaton - really helpful.

 

Yes I don't want to have the trouble of converting - I want to go straight in, either DC or DCC and that would be my final choice (for this layout anyway)

 

Regarding your three things - well my budget is around £150 but if something was amazing that everyone recommended I suppose I could push to £200 but I don't really want to spend that much when the Morley is only £70. And my layout plan is this:

 

- so nothing too large or advanced. (that isn't a short siding in the bottom left btw lol - it's the old entrance to the TMD - now disused...)

 

I only have 5 locos currently and I would just want to continuously run them on the mainline whilst doing some shunting movements in the TMD/Depot area - there would probably be a maxiumun of 3 locos moving at any one time so does that change anything regarindg which system to go for?

 

"out with an EZ-Command a limited but very cheap system" - limited in what way? Because there wasn't many functions or just because there wasn't enough loco slots - because like I say I have only got 5 locos so it wouldn't really matter that much if that was the case. Wow 256 locos - I don't think I will ever have that many. The Bachmann Dynamis sounds good - and at £110 mark not too expensive either - would you recommend for me anyone?

 

Nice set up you have got there - look pretty cool and a really good buy of eBay! What would the world do without eBay lol?

 

 

 

 

Thanks ever so much for your reply,

 

Oli

[pheaton]

so, the EZ-command, has a 1amp PSU and can on its own only address 10 locomotives, it has very limited programming facilities, it can only assign addresses 1-10 and can only change direction of a decoder, it cant change any CV values or anything like that.

 

Its considered an entry level system.

 

So you say youve got 5 loco's, with any DCC controller the number of locomotives on the move at once is only limited by the power supply and the EZ-command is no exception, so....

 

if you have less then 10 loco's are not bothered about programming and are not running more than 5 at a time (in theory with N gauge that shouldnt exceep 1amp on the power supply but you could always change it for a bigger one) then the ez command might do what your looking for! you can expand it using the ezcommand companion as well.

 

The Dynamis was in a way the replacement for the EZ-Command infact the dynamis is also marketed under the EZ-command name.

 

Ive used a dynamis and found it very very easy to use, with a very good graphical interface, you can do a reasonable level of programming, but you cannot read-back CV values, it has a 3amp PSU i believe and has the option that its wireless so you can move round.

 

However as ive said the dynamis didnt meet my power or programming needs so was unsuitable.

 

id look at what suzie suggested and perhaps the EZ command dynamis or anything in your budget and download the manuals to them, most should be availiable online, this should give a good ideas of what the controller offers and how easy it is to operate.

[Nigelcliffe]

The EZ is a BAD idea for N gauge. Reasons:

 

1 As supplied it puts about 19v on the track, far too much for an N gauge loco with decoder.

 

2 It only operates in 28 steps. So, chances are your locos will lurch from one speed to another. N gauge locos are more prone to this than OO.

 

3 It has NO facility to adjust CV values. In N gauge you will need to adjust some things to get good running, if only the start, mid and top speeds, more often you will need to fine tune a few other CV's.

 

 

Elsewhere, I'm sure you've asked about good quality low speed control. That doesn't come with "doing it on the cheap". There are plenty of decent systems available below £150, the Roco Multimaus, NCE PowerCab or Digitrax Zephyr are the three which stand out in my mind. Or the MERG CBUS based system if into DIY electronics assembly. I'd skip over the Dynamis as a good idea never developed properly; it lacks a proper upgrade/expansion path (I don't consider the Dynamis Pro to be an upgrade path, just an expensive dead-end).

 

If those are over budget, then go with DC running rather than poor quality DCC, but wire the turnouts "properly" - as indicated elsewhere in the thread, there is "good wiring" and "bad wiring". The process is the same for DC or DCC.

 

 

- Nigel

[Guest]

Thanks for the reply again pheaton,

 

Couple of more technical questions here....

 

- What does PSU mean?

- What are CV's?

 

Hmmmmm, the EZ-command does seem good but I think it could be "too" limited like you found - one day I may own more than 10 locos and to be honest I don't really like the look of the controller - sorry.

 

However the Dynamis looks good and is within budget... thank you for recommending that, looks really good. And yes I have looked at Suzies eBay one - also looks good.

 

 

Thanks again, Oli

[Guest]

The EZ is a BAD idea for N gauge. Reasons:

 

1 As supplied it puts about 19v on the track, far too much for an N gauge loco with decoder.

 

2 It only operates in 28 steps. So, chances are your locos will lurch from one speed to another. N gauge locos are more prone to this than OO.

 

3 It has NO facility to adjust CV values. In N gauge you will need to adjust some things to get good running, if only the start, mid and top speeds, more often you will need to fine tune a few other CV's.

 

 

Elsewhere, I'm sure you've asked about good quality low speed control. That doesn't come with "doing it on the cheap". There are plenty of decent systems available below £150, the Roco Multimaus, NCE PowerCab or Digitrax Zephyr are the three which stand out in my mind. Or the MERG CBUS based system if into DIY electronics assembly. I'd skip over the Dynamis as a good idea never developed properly; it lacks a proper upgrade/expansion path (I don't consider the Dynamis Pro to be an upgrade path, just an expensive dead-end).

 

If those are over budget, then go with DC running rather than poor quality DCC, but wire the turnouts "properly" - as indicated elsewhere in the thread, there is "good wiring" and "bad wiring". The process is the same for DC or DCC.

 

 

- Nigel

 

Oh sorry Nigel have just seen your post - you must have replied when I was replying to Pheaton...

 

Oh right ok then, that has put me off even more.

 

Yes I have asked about slow running speeds lots of times on RMweb lol, NCE power cab has come up a lot - I am going to go have a look at that now... Roco hey? Suzie suggested one of them as well. Aha the Digitrax Zephyr is what Graham (shanks522) went for on his OO gauge layout I think.

 

"if into DIY electronics assembly" - NO WAY, SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE PLEASE LOL!

 

Thanks, will have a look at the prices now, then will decide if they seem too much. Oh heck, wiring points scares me - I have no idea about this, electrofrog seems so confusing to me....

 

 

Cheers, Oli

[SNCF stephen]

Hi Oli,

 

I am currently in the process of going DCC with N Gauge and although you can spend a lot of money on it you can get some bargains. I got my Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance for about £85 on eBay and it is working well. The dropper wires are not too expensive to sort out and to be fair you could install them to future proof your layout and save hassle if you decide to do it later on. The fact that you are thinking about DCC now might mean that if you cannot do it all now because of the costs then you shouldn't rule out doing it in the future and at this stage you can make doing it in the future a lot easier with a few of the simple suggestions mentioned earlier (wiring the layout and turnouts etc).

 

Whatever you do good luck with it and keep us posted.

[Guest]

Thank you Stephen, much appreciated - wow £85 is pretty good. I think I already have lots of spare wire - gaugemaster (just looked ) Hope your layout goes well, and yes will keep you updated!

 

Something that has just occurred to me and worried me... please could someone clarify for me...

 

- Do you need to buy anything else other than the controller (or throttle I think it's called) because I have read something (not on RMweb) about systems - they said about choosing the best one but they had already decided on a controller though!!?? This doesn't make sense to me, surely it's the same thing? I am getting worried now. Can someone just tell me if I bought any of these would I need to buy anything else operational wise?

 

1) http://www.dynamisdcc.com/

 

2) http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/10810.aspx

 

3) http://www.ncedcc.com/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=3&category_id=1&vmcchk=1

 

4) http://www.digitrax.com/products/starter-sets/zepx/

 

??????

 

 

 

Please reply, I am concerned now.... thanks, Oli

[Phil S]

Just an add on note about using the Roco Multimaus and its original transformer - of you are concenred about excessive track voltage - especiallty for smaller gauges:

 

1/ I advise replacing the transformer with a Switched Mode Power Supply similar to those supplied for Laptops or other devices with external-mains to low-voltage supply - Using an 18V dc output gives about 16V on-track (measured by a rampmeter or oscilloscope - many diigtal mewters give inaccurate readings on the dcc waveform as they are calivtrated for sinewaves).

 

2/ Roco supply exactly the same system with their decoder-fitted for HOe and N gauge models - at the same voltages (and now Fleischmann)

- however NEW supplies (all scales) use a switched mode supply in place of the unregulated transformer which can gice as much as 21V on track with no locos moving!

 

3/ An alternative method of dropping the voltage is to use back-to-back diodes on the supply - if you wish to retain the transformer.

 

Don't drop the input voltage below 16V DC, or you'll find the transistors are not fully switched, and programming a roco digital point motor is not possible either.

 

A DC supply is usable in place of the transformer's ac, in this case, because the first process inside the box is to rectify the incoming supply, and 6A-rated diodes appeared to be used on mine, so no problem with 3.5A. New units may be labelled for ac/dc as with the Pro Centrale.

(The EU requirement is for all trains sets to use efficient power supplies - ie switched mode)

[Suzie]

I use a Bachmann E-Z Command with a couple of companions for a small 16' x 4' 7mm narrow gauge exhibition layout with up to five trains moving, so it can be used quite successfully but I would recommend something better. The main advantage that the E-Z Command has over all the others is that you can have a picture of the train next to each selection button, it is so simple to use that even a three year old child can operate it. If you do not need that go for something better.

 

For more serious use I normally use the MultiMaus with three LokMaus2 controllers as slaves. The LokMaus2 allows the control of up to 99 locos. I do not find the 28-step limitation a problem, but it may be an issue as others describe. You will not see the stepping if you have inertia enabled on the loco because the decoders will interpolate intermediate steps automatically.

 

I sometimes use a Lenz system, and then I use the LokMaus2 handsets which are much nicer to use than any of the Lenz ones. I am a great lover of having a controller with a centre off knob which the Roco controllers have. Some systems offer this as a configurable option (shunt mode).

 

Zimo decoders are some of the best and recently the new range was advertised to be available for the €uro equivalent of £17. There is little point in spending any less for a decoder because you are likely to have problems with their shortcomings, and there is not much point in spending any more than the cost of a Zimo decoder in most cases.

 

Everything is all a matter of opinion, and you really need to try some systems and identify what you really need to be able to operate your layout. I think that you have already decided that you want do some things that DC cannot do for you easily, and you have your budget of £70 to get a control system. You cannot go far wrong with a Roco Multimaus. If you don't like it there is always demand so you will be able to move it on. It might seem to be too good to be true, but it is well engineered and well thought out to provide what most operators need. Roco and Fleishmann ship an awful lot of them in trainsets which keeps the cost down. The better more expensive offerings have a few extra knobs and buttons (NCE, Digitrax) and nice consoles (ESU ECoS, Hornby Elite perhaps, Digitrax Zephyr) which justify the extra cost, but you might not need them.

[Guest]

I use a Bachmann E-Z Command with a couple of companions for a small 16' x 4' 7mm narrow gauge exhibition layout with up to five trains moving, so it can be used quite successfully but I would recommend something better. The main advantage that the E-Z Command has over all the others is that you can have a picture of the train next to each selection button, it is so simple to use that even a three year old child can operate it. If you do not need that go for something better.

 

For more serious use I normally use the MultiMaus with three LokMaus2 controllers as slaves. The LokMaus2 allows the control of up to 99 locos. I do not find the 28-step limitation a problem, but it may be an issue as others describe. You will not see the stepping if you have inertia enabled on the loco because the decoders will interpolate intermediate steps automatically.

 

I sometimes use a Lenz system, and then I use the LokMaus2 handsets which are much nicer to use than any of the Lenz ones. I am a great lover of having a controller with a centre off knob which the Roco controllers have. Some systems offer this as a configurable option (shunt mode).

 

Zimo decoders are some of the best and recently the new range was advertised to be available for the €uro equivalent of £17. There is little point in spending any less for a decoder because you are likely to have problems with their shortcomings, and there is not much point in spending any more than the cost of a Zimo decoder in most cases.

 

Everything is all a matter of opinion, and you really need to try some systems and identify what you really need to be able to operate your layout. I think that you have already decided that you want do some things that DC cannot do for you easily, and you have your budget of £70 to get a control system. You cannot go far wrong with a Roco Multimaus. If you don't like it there is always demand so you will be able to move it on. It might seem to be too good to be true, but it is well engineered and well thought out to provide what most operators need. Roco and Fleishmann ship an awful lot of them in trainsets which keeps the cost down. The better more expensive offerings have a few extra knobs and buttons (NCE, Digitrax) and nice consoles (ESU ECoS, Hornby Elite perhaps, Digitrax Zephyr) which justify the extra cost, but you might not need them.

 

Thanks for the reply Suzie, I think the Bachmann E-Z Command will be too 'simple' for my needs. And to be honest I don't really like the look of it and have read some bad reviews on it... sorry lol.

 

Zimo decoders hey? Will have a look at them now, are these compatible with any DCC system, (i.e could I use a train with a Zimo decoder in with the NCE PowerCab for instance?)

 

My budget is around £150 and £200 max if I need to - not £70 (that was the price of the twin track Morley) I think I am seriously leaning towards the NCE PowerCab, have read many good reviews on it and watched umpteen videos on YouTube about it. I really like it - does everyone think this would be suitable for my needs? If so I need to go and try it out at my model shop (if they stock it :/)

 

 

Thank you, Oli

[mullie]

Been using a power cab for about four months now as a replacement for Lenz Compact that had lasted 7 years. I have two layouts, both relatively small and I only run one loco at a time. The power cab is great and I find it very user friendly.

 

I operate my points via analogue and a Peco turntable on DC and as a steam era modeller sound is not such a concern.

 

[Suzie]

- Do you need to buy anything else other than the controller (or throttle I think it's called) because I have read something (not on RMweb) about systems - they said about choosing the best one but they had already decided on a controller though!!?? This doesn't make sense to me, surely it's the same thing? I am getting worried now. Can someone just tell me if I bought any of these would I need to buy anything else operational wise?

 

1) http://www.dynamisdcc.com/

 

2) http://www.roco.com/...Roco/10810.aspx

 

3) http://www.ncedcc.co...y_id=1&vmcchk=1

 

4) http://www.digitrax....rter-sets/zepx/

 

The link for (1) is the general Dynamis section. It is available as a complete system or just an extension handset to add to your existing Dynamis system.

 

The link for (2) is just for just the Multimaus handset. You will need a complete system including an amplifier and power supply (PSU) like in the Ebay link I gave above. The extra handsets without the power supply and amplifier are usually available for around £60 on Ebay. Most people prefer to replace the Roco power supply anyway, I run mine with an 18V computer PSU rather than the very heavy supplied transformer. Replacement power supplies are not expensive if you are going to be using delicate decoders.

 

(3) is a complete NCE Powercab system, nothing else required.

 

(4) is a complete Digitrax Zephyr system.

[Suzie]

You will not find many people who tried NCE and did not like it.

[Guest]

The link for (1) is the general Dynamis section. It is available as a complete system or just an extension handset to add to your existing Dynamis system.

 

The link for (2) is just for just the Multimaus handset. You will need a complete system including an amplifier and power supply (PSU) like in the Ebay link I gave above. The extra handsets without the power supply and amplifier are usually available for around £60 on Ebay. Most people prefer to replace the Roco power supply anyway, I run mine with an 18V computer PSU rather than the very heavy supplied transformer. Replacement power supplies are not expensive if you are going to be using delicate decoders.

 

(3) is a complete NCE Powercab system, nothing else required.

 

(4) is a complete Digitrax Zephyr system.

 

Thank you VERY much for answering that Suzie, I understand now. Yes I am really considering getting the NCE

[Sunnysa]

Hi Modern N gauge,

 

I have been op DCC 17yrs and would/could not go back to DC. It is just to hard and no fun at all fo me.

 

As has been pointed out, it is actually cheaper to go DCC than DC if just starting out in model railways if mutiple train control is required.

 

I have always been a Lenz operator but as I managed the MR department in a large hobby shop for a couple of yrs I have used many DCC systems.

 

You say you are leaning towards the NCE Powercab. Very good choice, it is probablly one of the best value for money DCC starter systems going.

 

Powercab does a lot of what the higher end systems do, 4 digit addressing, all CV programing etc. Sure it does have a few limitations but nothing that would hamper those starting out in MR such as yourself.

 

The Powercab can be upgraded to the Powerpro system latter as finances become available if required.

 

Powercab comes with 1.75 amp transformer which is ample for 6 or so N scale trains.

 

But then with DCC it is not the amount of locos that can operated

but what can be done with each individual loco. Such as turning headlights on/off at will and anything that you may wish to fit in your locos that can be switched, cab lights etc, it is almost endless.

 

Powercab is compatable with any decoder that is NMRA compliant but having said that I will not use Hornby, Bachman, MRC decoders if given to me.

 

My chosen non sound decoders are DCCconcepts or TCS in that order. Both are value for money and with a little CV tweaking perform as good as the more expensive chips.

 

Wiring the layout is far easier and cheaper than DC also much quicker.

 

A pair (2) of bus wires under the layout and power droppers to each piece of track including points.

 

This does take a little extra time but save frustration and head/heart ache in the future. I know there will be those that will poo poo me but IMO relying on rail joiners to carry the current/voltage over a long period of time often fails.

 

Insulfro or electrofrog points and the wiring of them. Believe me it makes no difference between DCC or DC.

 

It comes down to personal choice, a lot depends on the type of locos being operated.

 

About the only locos that stuggle with insulfrog are 0-4-0s and maybe 0-6-0s. If you are op modern diesels etc, you should have no problems

 

Admitadly I op HO and all my peco points (75 of em) are insulfrog points and my locos op thru them at shunt speed.

 

DCC can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it and as you learn more about it the limitations are very few in fact the biggest limitation with DCC is imagination and of course, avaiable finances, but the same can be said about DC and with that there is very severe limitations.

compared to DC.

 

DCC allows you to drive the trains not the layout which, with multiple train operation, that is what you are doing with DC. Flicking switches all over the place etc.

 

Like anything in life, there is a learning curve with DCC but with a little patience and time the learning curve is not that steep, in fact, in most cases it is easier than op a computer.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[Nigelcliffe]

You will not find many people who tried NCE and did not like it.

 

I don't rate it that highly There are some aspects of its workings which I find infuriating.

I do understand why other people like it.

 

 

With your earlier comments on the entry price Zimo decoder; they are probably too large for many N locos, so the price point ends up at CT or Zimo small decoders, nearer to £25-£32 as the top performing decoders. I'd pay that rather than accept significantly worse running from other makers, including some who charge more than Zimo and CT for their decoders. But, for the original poster, if the total system budget is £150, its not going to get many decoders and running on analogue may be a better idea.

 

 

Ian - Decoder performance with very small motors used in N gauge is different to that in OO/HO models. Decoders which work well in OO can be very poor in N or 2mm finescale. I tested a load of decoders on my own locos and can see the differences. I spent some time trying to tweak CV values to get optimum running out of all of the decoders. With my locos the testing resulted in: CT first, Zimo very close second, significant drop to analogue third (Pentroller), fourth and significantly worse than analogue were Lenz, then TCS and Digitrax. If I put some of the decoders which were poor in N onto smaller OO models, then they perform much better and differences in performance between decoder makers was smaller.

 

- Nigel

[Guest]

But, for the original poster, if the total system budget is £150, its not going to get many decoders and running on analogue may be a better idea.

 

The budget of £150 is for the control system (ie. Powercab) and hopefully one decoder. I wasn't planning on buying my whole fleet with the £150. Now looking around the NCE PowerCab is around £135 + P&P (http://www.bromsgrovemodels.co.uk/pd-670066615.htm?categoryId=71) so that would leave me another £15 - anything decent out there for that money? (decoder wise)

 

And I honestly think DCC is the way for me, the only thing I am unsure about is all this CV stuff and how to wire the points - do they need any modification for DCC or can they be used 'out of the box'?

 

 

Cheers, Oli