Bloxwich and the Cannock Chase Line

[dave_long]

Hi all

I was just wondering whether anyone can shed any further light on the Cannock Chase line and the workings to and through Bloxwich in the 1980s?

 

I know that the main freight was the trip to Bloxwich Imperial smelters, with the line curving sharply through the industries and across a unprotected road. Almost all web references are post 2000, with a few in the 90s.

 

The line was freight only until the line reopened to passenger services 1988-89.

 

I understand that (according to information on Andy William's Bescot plus website) that Bescot T19 trip worked Bloxwich sidings and wednesbury steel terminal usually twice a day, although it does seem possible that it may have often not called at bloxwich, but gone straight to Wednesbury instead. However for my purpose that the non call of T19 at Bloxwich isnt a problem, I'm more looking for info on what did use the line.

 

According to the above site T19 was a 08 in the summer of 89 and a single class 20 in '88.

 

Does any one know if there was anything else that worked the sidings at Bloxwich? Was it really just box vans that were taken to Imperial smelters sidings? I have a seen 1 photo with a rake of Bxx family of vans and then later the VGAs and cargowaggon types.

 

This photo of the Bloxwich box diagram shows the sidings still listed as N.S co sidings however a search seems to confirm that National smelting co was liquidated in 1929, so the sidings diagram is old. The long siding that runs parallel to the main line is listed as Thomas's sidings which seems to be a long out of use connection to Thomas's Brickyard, of which references I've found all date to the 1800s.

 

Bloxwich Signal Box by Bescot Curve, on Flickr

 

Moving on from Bloxwich itself, does anyone know what else ran the Chase line, did the coal trains for Rugeley route this way like the way they do know? If so would they have been standard coal fair ie 58s 56s 20s and the odd 47?

 

Inspiration came from watching this really:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ30G3kZaAM

 

I suppose really what I'm trying to work out is whether or not it would be worth modelling, the level crossing (with the Hornby LMR signalbox),semaphores and ground discs, the loop and tandem in to the sidings and then to the single slip across the main line would make a fantastic model, but even with all that would it be worth it all for a few cargowaggons an 08 and a coal train?

 

Regards

 

Dave

[Mark Forrest]

Funnily enough I saw a photo earlier tonight which might be of interest. It's a little earlier than the time period you asked about, but there's a photo of a 40 working 9T32 into Bescot from Walsall in one of the Bradford Barton books. The photo is undated but the loco is 40181 in GFYE. Caption states that 9T32 was a trip serving Wednesbury/Ocker Hill, Hednesford, Birchills and Bloxwich. Train consists of a 1 x TTA, 1 x TEA, 1 x MCV, 2 or 3 bogie (edit - in light of Phil's link below possibly not bogie) flats of a type that I can't identify from the photo and a standard BR brake van.

 

Page 29 of Diesels in the West Midlands & Central Wales

[Guest Phil]

First of all Dave (proudly beats chest) I had an article published in Mr Sydney Pritchards patented magazine featuring Bloxwich as a layout suggestion.

 

http://andibradley.com/railmags/product_info.php/products_id/1596

 

Good ole Google

 

This gave a brief overview, but nothing as precise as target numbers over decades. I'm sure Mikeh would be happy to fill you in on some of these. Therein lies the biggest problem for us - moving numbers. If anyone asked me what Target 32 was, i'd probably say it was the Lichfield Rom River trip, but I'm not so sure it was, even at some point in the 1980s.

 

y 1982 I am pretty sure that the only WTT movements north of Bloxwich would have been coal loads and coal empties in air, vac or unbraked coal wagons.There were often passenger and freight diversions though, particularly at weekends.

 

Traffic into the spelter at Bloxwich was conveyed in a number of different designs over the years ranging from vacuum braked 12T vans, ferryvans, "supervans" and even some specialist wagons featured in this thread ;

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/44516-brt-zinc-ingot-wagons-for-isc/

 

 

 

So there's a start Dave

 

I strongly recommend you visit the site soon, because the resignalling will wipe it all out by early 2013. In particular the maroon BR sign is to be valued on the current No 15 box.

 

 

You'll notice that the goods line which served Thomas' and the Spelter has already gone - apart from the rails set into the road.

 

This is a more useful view showing the line towards Ryecroft, Thomas' and the spelter curving to the right.

 

 

Another shot with 37377 vdoing some shunting

 

 

 

 

Hope this helps

[Mark Forrest]

If anyone asked me what Target 32 was, i'd probably say it was the Lichfield Rom River trip, but I'm not so sure it was, even at some point in the 1980s.

 

TBH, the 40 has 9T32 on the headcode and the caption states this reporting number, but it is a Bradford Barton so possibly needs to be taken with a pinch of salt anyway.

 

Traffic into the spelter at Bloxwich was conveyed in a number of different designs over the years ranging from vacuum braked 12T vans, ferryvans, "supervans" and even some specialist wagons featured in this thread ;

 

http://www.rmweb.co....wagons-for-isc/

Those flats (or something similar) may well be the unidentified wagons in the photo I was looking at.

[dave_long]

Phil

Thanks for the info, I have been over and seen that there is very little left, but there are enough photos on flickr including the signal box diagrams to work out what goes where. I shall see if I can get a copy if your article :-)

 

I'm not really up on my target numbers its just that I have read about certain T trips and added it just in case it triggered someone's memories.

 

Those zinc ingot wagons look intriguing.

 

I have found a few photos in Diesels n the West midlands by G Dowling and J Whitehouse. 3 photos taken 1984 showing 40118 on a Liverpool to Paddington sun diversion. 45068 on a coal train (hba/hea's) heading south through hednesford. Thirdly 56061 heading south through hednesford with a merry go round train, past the coal sidings which are quite full with empty wagons (pre haa types?)

 

Mark,

I don't think I've seen that book you mentioned. Thanks I may have a look for a copy.

 

Dave

[Pugsley]

but even with all that would it be worth it all for a few cargowaggons an 08 and a coal train?

Yes

[dave_long]

Thanks Martin.

There seems to be enough variety for me to run off a plan in templot. Plus i have a heads start on some Cargowaggons!

Now a few choices,

 

- make the layout deep enough to incorporate the view over the unmanned crossing: (Highland stag to boot!)

 

Stop For The Lollipop by onthebeast, on Flickr

 

- Use the choice of signal box's or make my own: (maybe a little tongue in cheek )

-Hornby (exTriang): http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3cca517d5d ( 99p upwards )

-Bachmann scenecraft: http://www.gaugemast...sp?code=B44-133 ( £35-40 )

 

Found a bit of interest on Bing maps, although modern there is a track machine sat in Thomas sidings: http://binged.it/Qlq5VO

Also all the track work is still visible on Bing as it has been removed on google on all but streetview.

You can also see that there is very little distance before the track goes across Fryers road crossing so it could be possible to include it.

 

Thanks for the interest and help

 

Dave

 

Edit the Bing maps link doesn't go straight to the view with track machine but either arrow clicked twice shows the correct view.

[Pugsley]

If I had the space, I'd definitely include the ungated crossing - there's something quite cool about them IMO. I also think you may as well use the Scenecraft box, if you can, that's going to save loads of time.

[dave_long]

I don't think that it would be that much of a stretch to add the ungated crossing, it would make for some great photos, hiding the layout exit might be a pain from the helicopter/viewer position but would b worth it.

 

The scene craft box is quite good looking are you allowed to use RTP buildings in P4?

[Pugsley]

I won't tell if you don't

[dave_long]

Well trawling through flickr always throws up a few gems. This Freight train and shunting record from bescot dated Sunday 28th April 1985. If you open up to its largest image you a can read all of it. 6T44 is listed as 31305 to bloxwich with 3 loaded and 7 empties. Although it seems that from loco arrival to booking back in at bescot only took 45 mins.

 

[dave_long]

Signalling question moved to signal forum section.

[beast66606]

- Use the choice of signal box's or make my own: (maybe a little tongue in cheek )

-Hornby (exTriang): http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3cca517d5d ( 99p upwards )

-Bachmann scenecraft: http://www.gaugemast...sp?code=B44-133 ( £35-40 )

 

If you compare the Hornby one to the prototype you will see why the bin is the best place for it ...

 

The accuracy of the Bachmann one is unknown at this time but it looks good.

[TheSignalEngineer]

If you compare the Hornby one to the prototype you will see why the bin is the best place for it ...

 

They've both got a hole in the wall for the rods and wires to come out........................

[dave_long]

The Bachmann one hopefully can be improved on if you can get to the interior like you can on other scene craft boxes.

 

Suffice to say I only looked once at the Hornby box! I'm still open to building one, but I'll wait and see what the baccy version turns out like.

 

Dave

[dave_long]

First of all Dave (proudly beats chest) I had an article published in Mr Sydney Pritchards patented magazine featuring Bloxwich as a layout suggestion.

 

http://andibradley.c...roducts_id/1596

 

Good ole Google

 

This gave a brief overview, but nothing as precise as target numbers over decades. I'm sure Mikeh would be happy to fill you in on some of these. Therein lies the biggest problem for us - moving numbers. If anyone asked me what Target 32 was, i'd probably say it was the Lichfield Rom River trip, but I'm not so sure it was, even at some point in the 1980s.

 

y 1982 I am pretty sure that the only WTT movements north of Bloxwich would have been coal loads and coal empties in air, vac or unbraked coal wagons.There were often passenger and freight diversions though, particularly at weekends.

Hope this helps

 

Phil

Thanks I have sourced a copy of RM with your article. Very good thanks for posting. Your article I think has given me the green light to build it. You pointed out enough traffic to make it interesting enough to operate. Some different photos too which is good.

 

One of the photos shows a train being reversed straight into the smelter sidings via the crossover directly north of the level crossing and not the loop end to the far end, which is interesting, the shunter must have been on hand quickly.

 

One question did the passenger service really start in 86, I was under the impression that was not until 88?

 

Regards

 

Dave

[mikeh]

Mark, was there a date on the 40 on T32 pic?

 

In October 1968 Target 32 was booked a Type 4 as follows:

 

 

Here's one from 20 years later....

 

 

 

31159 trundles past Moors Gorse crossing on Cannock Chase with the 6T42 1240 Bescot Yd-Lea Hall Colliery trip with 8 empty HEAs for loading on 9th August 1988.

 

Shame about the engine - of course a couple of years before it would have been a proper Type 2!

 

Regards

Mike

[D605Eagle]

If I had the space, I'd definitely include the ungated crossing - there's something quite cool about them IMO. I also think you may as well use the Scenecraft box, if you can, that's going to save loads of time.

I used to work in the unit right next to that crossing and the track right next to the crossing was so bad often empty wagons coming out of the smelters would briefly lift a wheel off the track! Due to the curve they never derailed....wel not when I was there anyway! This was in the late 90s and it was always a 37 doing the shunting in those days.

[Mark Forrest]

Mark, was there a date on the 40 on T32 pic?m

Hi Mike, unfortunately no date is given. However, she is green with full yellow ends and TOPS numbered so that should narrow it down a bit. Think the book was published in '75, so I'd estimate sometime in '74?

[dave_long]

Mike

Thanks always like to read your posts on bescot workings.

Class 31 and 8 HEAs, a very handy short train for a medium size layout. Mike the proper types 2s would they have worked as a double at all on these coal trips or was 8 wagons a norm?

 

D605eagle do you know when the building you worked in, (grey sides with red edging) was first built?

 

Regards

Dave

[TheSignalEngineer]

A few from the pocket camera in 1981.

 

 

Setting out old style. S&T and PWay marking out for the new connections into the opencast bunker on the site of the old Essington Wood sidings.

 

 

Mid Cannock Opencast bunker with Class 47 in siding. The old Mid Cannock Colliery pithead gear is to the left of the shot.

 

 

Unidentified Class 47 on the Down Main north of Hednesford with an MGR train for Rugeley B Power Station. Yes, despite the vegetation it is on the Down Main.

 

All photographs Copyright C E Steele 2012

[D605Eagle]

D605eagle do you know when the building you worked in, (grey sides with red edging) was first built?

 

Regards

Dave

Sorry I don't know. We moved in in 1998 and it had been empty for some time, I would suspect it was at least 5 years old at that point. We only stayed for 3 years as the business became too large for the building.

Jim

[dave_long]

Charles, they're great photos thanks. Yet more evidence also of the up main being Flat bottom rail (some with concrete and some with wooden sleepers) and bullhead rail on the down main. There certainly is plenty to model here!

 

Thanks Jim all info helps paint a picture.

 

Regards

Dave

[mikeh]

Hi Mike, unfortunately no date is given. However, she is green with full yellow ends and TOPS numbered so that should narrow it down a bit. Think the book was published in '75, so I'd estimate sometime in '74?

 

Cracked it - in 1974 there was a 9T32 0830 Bescot DES-Bloomfield South Staffs Wagon.

 

Bescot Down Empty Sidings were actually at Norton Junc and South Staffs Wagon would hold wagons there for their works at Bloomfield, notablly tank cars.....

 

The full diagram was

 

 

 

Regards

Mike

[mikeh]

Mike

Thanks always like to read your posts on bescot workings.

Class 31 and 8 HEAs, a very handy short train for a medium size layout. Mike the proper types 2s would they have worked as a double at all on these coal trips or was 8 wagons a norm?

 

Regards

Dave

 

A 31 could just manage 8 empties but they had to drop the loads to 4 .....

 

 

 

31159 approaches Hednesford with four loaded HEAs forming the return 6T42 1340 Lea Hall Colliery-Bescot Yd Speedlink Coal trip on 9th August, 1988.

 

Seriously....

 

Somewhere I have a loads book which I will try to dig out but a single 25 would manage a lot more than your layout!

Pairs of 25s were not unknown on Bescot trippers but 2 x 20s or a Type 4 would be just as likely

 

Regards

Mike