Rail-served dairies in Suffolk, 1950s

[The Nth Degree]

Thanks for looking, not a bad result.

[Karhedron]

The photograph was taken by J Davenport at Ipswich in the Winter of 1951 with a down milk train hauled by B17 61672 West Ham United with: six milk tankers, BG, five milk tankers and BG. I'm sure I have seen comment that there as a maximum number of milk tankers to a brake van, which may explain the BG in the centre of the tankers, or it could be that the train was split at Ipswich, with half proceeding to Halesworth and the other half to North Elmham. Has anyone any comment?

I would suspect the second explanation is more likely to be correct. The WR ran long milk trains with a single brake vehicle but they did not need to split them. They just ran from the west to london with most creameries being located on the mainline or off on a branch. The tanks were continuously braked and the BG was only there to provide accomodation for the Guard. This was a regulatory requirement that was dropped in 1968 and brake vehicles vanish from milk trains pretty smartly after this date.

[beast66606]

Thanks for looking, not a bad result.

 

Middleton Press Saxmundham to Lowestoft might yield more, but I haven't got that one, also the Southwold Railway perhaps (as it covers Halesworth)

[Wherry Lines]

The Southwold Railway book does not mention a dairy, nor can I see it on the 1904 map included within. There are couple of photos showing vans on the standard gauge lines, but it is not clear whether these are milk. I would assume that the tank shown in photo 32 is milk as it appears to be white. The tanks in photo 27 appears to be a dark colour.

 

I do not have the Sax to Lowestoft book in my collection either.

[Karhedron]

There are couple of photos showing tans on the standard gauge lines, but it is not clear whether these are milk. I would assume that the tank shown in photo 32 is milk as it appears to be white. The tanks in photo 27 appears to be a dark colour.

Milk tanks came in a variety of liveries prior to nationalisation, some were dark such as the MMB. The wheel arrangement will give a better clue (if it is visible in the pictures). Milk tankers were pretty-much unique in using a 6-wheeled chassis from the late 1930s onwards. Prior to that date some 4-wheeled ones existed although they did not run well at the sort of speeds milk trains needed to maintain.

[beast66606]

Middleton Press Saxmundham to Lowestoft might yield more, but I haven't got that one

 

I have now ... (it's actually to Great Yarmouth)

[Ben04uk]

When did the North Elmham dairy / railhead close? Would Class 31's have been used to transport the milk tankers in its last days?

 

Does anyone have any good photos showing the dairy? I haven't come across any.

[PaulG]

According to the information Glen Woods has shared,Milk Traffic in tankers at North Elmham ceased in December 1963, "no doubt" as a result of the so called “Western Agreement” between the BRB and the MMB which concentrated all milk traffic for London on the Western Region. 

 

The working timetable from June 1963 to June 1964 shows a 2.51 pm Norwich Thorpe North Elmham "Milk empties" and the return working shows a stop at Yaxham 4.50 4.53 pre September and 4.13 4.16 post September. The train is shown as being Milk and Parcels.

Presumably the September changes were due to the loss of summer passenger service. The train (often worked by B12 61572 and afterwards by Paxman D82xx diesels) conveyed one or two rail milk tankers and a passenger rated vehicle. This vehicle was frequently a BG

type but I seem to remember an outer suburban BS or BC being used which gives rise as to if passengers were ever conveyed on this service.

 

Paul

[Ben04uk]

There is no date on this photo but this seems to show a Class 31 with milk tankers still in the bay.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/North-Elmham-Railway-Station-Photo-Dereham-County-School-Fakenham-Line-4-/262994821109?hash=item3d3bb67ff5:g:qNYAAOSwn-tZH~An  

[Ian Smeeton]

One aerial view of Halesworth here: https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW049155

 

There appear to be 2 or 3 tanks in front of the pale coloured building immediately to the upper left of the station.

 

Unfortunately, detail is not too good when zoomed in .

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Karhedron]

There is a nice shot of the Norwich - London milk train here.

 

 

Class 31s did briefly haul the revived milk trains in the early 80s on the GE. These were composed of the shiny refurbished MMB tanks and were one of the few times they were used in service as far as I am aware. The service was short-lived and was apparently withdrawn after protests from the road-haulage lobby. I will try and find more details as I have read about it somewhere. Here is a shot of one of the trains.

 

[Karhedron]

Aha, I knew I had seen it somewhere. The flow using the refurbished MMB tanks was from Chard to Stowmarket and a summary was written by Brian Pibworth for the Cornwall Railway Society.

 

​In the course of catching up with "Cornwall Railways" postings,  my eye was caught by Dave Tozer's  reply re. refurbished milk tankers.

 

"I can only recall seeing them once heading to Chard Junction. I suspect they were never used much".

 

It rather depends on what you call "much",  as during the summer of 1981 Chard Junction Creamery was host to freight movements unseen for several years, as two rakes of milk tanks, refurbished through some sort of EEC funding, carried surplus milk from the Milk Marketing Board creamery, to a similar plant at Stowmarket in Suffolk.

 

Unfortunately, while providing a spectacle for us local rail enthusiasts, the project suffered from the "dead hand" of BR and local self interest and didn't last long.

 

I may be a bit thin on remembering detail but as I recall, the working depended on an inspector, signaller, pilotman and shunter being driven in a Transit van the 60 miles from Westbury Shed to enable the mainline loco to access the milk siding and extract/return the tanks.  This cavalcade was often late and  the MMB shunter, restricted to their private siding and headshunt,  was sometimes reluctant to start .  Delay was the order of the day and there was still considerable local resentment of BR (W) taking over "our" freight as they scaled down the old Southern route in favour of "their" GWR main line to Exeter.

 

Having unlocked gates and points and shuffled the rolling stock,  the train would eventually be dispatched eastwards, to the relief of Chard Junction Signal Box, who viewed the whole exercise with great scepticism.  The full trains took the Southern route to Yeovil Jnc then via Castle Cary to Stowmarket, but returned the empties via Exeter.

 

The last nail in the coffin resulted from the lack of washout facilities at Stowmarket which meant that the empties spent many hours sitting in the summer sun with the residual milk contents rapidly "going off".  On return to Chard, one of  the milk dock reception gang was detailed to climb into the tank and clean out the curdled mess with just a brush and hosepipe.  For this privilege he was awarded 50p per tank and there was significant resistance to taking on the task, not only from the workers but also from wives burdened with additional laundry.  Added to this, the job theoretically took road driving turns away from the Chard plant, so the project was doomed even before the EEC funding ran out and after a few fits and starts eventually ceased later that year.

 

So Dave is right to say they were never used much, but when they were, we certainly enjoyed the spectacle.

[Karhedron]

One aerial view of Halesworth here: https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW049155

 

There appear to be 2 or 3 tanks in front of the pale coloured building immediately to the upper left of the station.

 

Unfortunately, detail is not too good when zoomed in .

Here is a better shot of the remains of the Southwold Railway which conveniently captures the dairy in the background. The main station is just to the left of the photograph. I suspect the photographer was probably standing on the platform to take this shot. You can just see a tanker in residence on the left of the shot.

 

 

This view shows the station and dairy sidings but just crops out the dairy building itself. The date seems to have been cropped off, does anyone know when the UD livery was applied to the tankers?

 

 

This shot at a similar angle but from the 60s shows the sidings unoccuppied which gives an intresting view of the assorted pipework that was used.

 

[Karhedron]

When did the North Elmham dairy / railhead close? Would Class 31's have been used to transport the milk tankers in its last days?

 

Does anyone have any good photos showing the dairy? I haven't come across any.

You can just make it out lurking in the background of this 1964 shot.

 

[Wickham Green]

Aha, I knew I had seen it somewhere. The flow using the refurbished MMB tanks was from Chard to Stowmarket and a summary was written by Brian Pibworth for the Cornwall Railway Society.

 

Quote

​In the course of catching up with "Cornwall Railways" postings,  my eye was caught by Dave Tozer's  reply re. refurbished milk tankers.

 

"I can only recall seeing them once heading to Chard Junction. I suspect they were never used much".

 

It rather depends on what you call "much",  as during the summer of 1981 Chard Junction Creamery was host to freight movements unseen for several years, as two rakes of milk tanks, refurbished through some sort of EEC funding, carried surplus milk from the Milk Marketing Board creamery, to a similar plant at Stowmarket in Suffolk.

 

Unfortunately, while providing a spectacle for us local rail enthusiasts, the project suffered from the "dead hand" of BR and local self interest and didn't last long.

 

I may be a bit thin on remembering detail but as I recall, the working depended on an inspector, signaller, pilotman and shunter being driven in a Transit van the 60 miles from Westbury Shed to enable the mainline loco to access the milk siding and extract/return the tanks.  This cavalcade was often late and  the MMB shunter, restricted to their private siding and headshunt,  was sometimes reluctant to start .  Delay was the order of the day and there was still considerable local resentment of BR (W) taking over "our" freight as they scaled down the old Southern route in favour of "their" GWR main line to Exeter.

 

Having unlocked gates and points and shuffled the rolling stock,  the train would eventually be dispatched eastwards, to the relief of Chard Junction Signal Box, who viewed the whole exercise with great scepticism.  The full trains took the Southern route to Yeovil Jnc then via Castle Cary to Stowmarket, but returned the empties via Exeter.

 

The last nail in the coffin resulted from the lack of washout facilities at Stowmarket which meant that the empties spent many hours sitting in the summer sun with the residual milk contents rapidly "going off".  On return to Chard, one of  the milk dock reception gang was detailed to climb into the tank and clean out the curdled mess with just a brush and hosepipe.  For this privilege he was awarded 50p per tank and there was significant resistance to taking on the task, not only from the workers but also from wives burdened with additional laundry.  Added to this, the job theoretically took road driving turns away from the Chard plant, so the project was doomed even before the EEC funding ran out and after a few fits and starts eventually ceased later that year.

 

So Dave is right to say they were never used much, but when they were, we certainly enjoyed the spectacle.

 

 

........ then those tanks sat around Swindon for umpteen years looking for a use - before, inevitably, going to make razor blades.