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3D Printed N Gauge Pendolino and On Track Plant





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#1 bmthtrains - David

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 20:22

Anyone who remembers my first attempt at building an N gauge Pendolino, I was using very '20th century' techniques - plastic, milliput and lots of compromises!

As I'm going on a specific 3D modelmaking (CAD, laser cutting and 3D printing) evening course starting next month, with access to some state of the art technologies, and expert advice on hand, I've decided to have a second go, this time with the aim of producing CAD plans to print out in 3D.

As before, the basic chassis will be Farish Mk4 coaches, but with 3D printed bodyshells. As I've only been using Sketchup for a few days now, I'm still getting the hang of it, but here is my progress so far on a standard coach.

pendo shell1.jpg

pendo shell2.jpg

Once a few more details are complete, I will modify this to create the pantograph car design, then start work on the driving car (yes, that curved nose could be a problem!).

When I'm happy with both my CAD and 3D printing skills, I may try a few extras on this model, such as adding directional lighting, 'borrowed' from an unused Kato EMU. I definitely wont be having a go at the tilt mechanism though!

Much more to follow...

David

Edited by bmthtrains - David, 29 March 2013 - 21:30 .

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#2 backofanenvelope

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 20:57

Very well done David. For a couple of days on sketchup that's pretty good. Looking forward to seeing the progress of this.

Regards
Tom

#3 bmthtrains - David

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 21:00

Thanks!

I've just ordered a low detail print from Shapeways, just so I can check the fit onto the chassis - for £17 it was worth it just to play around with. Quite excited now! Next question is how to glaze the windows...

David

#4 Edwin_m

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 21:15

Looks very impressive. Have you started from an official drawing or is it deduced from photos etc?

As the Pendolino side is pretty smooth, I wonder if the clear plastic plus vinyl technique might be the best way of doing the windows. Being a total ignoramus on 3D printing I don't even know if it's possible in clear plastic...

#5 Ben A

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 21:58

Hi David

That's looking really good, but as you have rightly identified, it's the driving cab ends that will make or break the model. Having said that, from the progress you've made so far I have every confidence you will succeed!

On another note, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the possibility of a leaning model. I don't know if you ever had a look at the Hornby APT but that tilted via a very simple mechanism where the body (or maybe the bogies) had sloping ramps that rested on pips either side of each bogie and raised the model on one side as the bogie swivelled.

If I could do sketch up I would do you a drawing showing what I mean!

cheers

Ben A

#6 Robert Shrives

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 22:11

Hi David , that is good work possibly slightly wide on hips as it were but 1000% better than me , of course as Ben mentions the APT that would be for me if I could do the CAD stuff. I will watch your sucess with great interest. Shapeways certainly do good productions
Robert Shrives

#7 woodenhead

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 23:36

This should look really special when you complete it, but of course you know what will pop up at Warley don't you or are you deliberately tempting fate. Now these have more than one livery it may tempt them to take the step.

#8 Edwin_m

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 07:37

Unless you count the Alstom special as a different livery, the second one depends on the deliberations of M'lud!

The problem with a Hornby APT type tilt mechanism is that it was designed for trainset curves and I doubt it would tilt at all on "realistic" ones. I don't think you could use the same principle on gentle curves as the wedges would become so steep that they would stop the bogie turning instead of lifting the body.

#9 Ben A

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 07:56

The problem with a Hornby APT type tilt mechanism is that it was designed for trainset curves and I doubt it would tilt at all on "realistic" ones. I don't think you could use the same principle on gentle curves as the wedges would become so steep that they would stop the bogie turning instead of lifting the body.


Hi Edwin,

That may be true, but I still think the idea is worth some experimentation, if David is so minded. After all, the tilt doesn't have to be that pronounced to be visually effective (and authentic) and my recollection is the APT tilted more (certainly on the first runs) than the Pendolinos do in any event.

I'm not so sure that David needs to be worried about being "gazzumped" by one of the manufacturers either; Hornby have the Pretendolino market in OO, so Bachmann/Farish seem unlikely to produce it, while Dapol, having announced it, then said they were putting it on the "back-burner" as it would require a very high level of investment in all the necessary bodyshells.

cheers

Ben A.

#10 red death

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:35

Excellent work David!

Good luck with the nose - I will be interested to see how you do it.

Looking at the cross section of the bodyshell makes one realise how similar the profile is to the APT!

I'd certainly be interested if you made them available through Shapeways.

Cheers, Mike

#11 Joseph_Pestell

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 14:12

Amazing to get that far in just two days.

I'm not really convinced that I could ever do it but do you have details of the evening class course? I might just try it.

#12 woodenhead

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 23:11

I'm not so sure that David needs to be worried about being "gazzumped" by one of the manufacturers either; Hornby have the Pretendolino market in OO, so Bachmann/Farish seem unlikely to produce it, while Dapol, having announced it, then said they were putting it on the "back-burner" as it would require a very high level of investment in all the necessary bodyshells.


I'm not overly confident of Dapol producing one myself, but it's the usual cliche of someone's scratchbuild attempt that an RTR comes along just as it is nearly finished.

Anyhows, David will be in a position to produce to order once he has all his CADs done and very quickly the market for a N gauge Pendolino will be satisfied.

Cross St is clearly too small to support a Pendolino so I am wondering what he has planned to run this on especially after his other post on modelling a junction re-instatement.

#13 bmthtrains - David

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 23:28

Thanks to all for their encouragement.

I've made a first stab at the basic driving car shape, but have to stop now to learn how to do 3D compound curves (hmmmm). Once I can figure out how to do that, the nose should come along, and then I can try and tidy up this shape.

pendo shell 3.jpg

As to what's my next modeling project, first a few goes at these 3D rolling stock ideas, then depending how the 390 comes out, possibly something big again...

David
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#14 backofanenvelope

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:09

David,

Some ideas on the compound curves.





and here is a good site for SU

http://sketchucation.com

T.

#15 bmthtrains - David

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 22:09

Thanks, this is proving to be very difficult for my beginner's ability!

I thought I'd found a great shortcut when I came across a sketchup model someone has made of a pendolino for running in a train simulator. It wasnt very accurate, except for the nose! I re-scaled the image, but turning it into solid surfaces proved too hard, as did copying the basic shape. The driving car now looks like a Bullied Pacific...not good!

pendo shell 4.jpg

I will try some different approaches tomorrow, and if I haven't got something decent in a few weeks, I'll see if I can use the laser scanner on my evening course to 'borrow' the outline of the Hornby model :)

David
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#16 Tom J

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 09:37

A vision of what Bulleid might have produced as a steam multiple unit. Hopefully not using his and Alstom's most famous technical 'achievements' - Leader, and the Pendolino Toilet...

Very well done though David - I took a lot longer to get rolling in Sketchup!

#17 BernardTPM

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 09:44

Looking at the cross section of the bodyshell makes one realise how similar the profile is to the APT!

Given it has to work on basically the same railway, with just 1 degree less tilt, that's not too surprising. However, if you take the APT cross section as a whole, it's notable how much less aerodynamic the Pendolino is above and below the sides. APT was as slippery as a snake.

#18 bmthtrains - David

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:59

I'm going to have a break from the driving car for a while - the shape is incredibly complex, and as I'm doing this before ive even started my 3D course, I'm in no rush to complete anything before I've learned the skills!

The rough standard car Ive ordered via shapeways should be here sometime in the next 10 days, and when that's arrived, I can check the size, and start cutting up Farish Mk4s to act as a chassis. I'll also experiment with glazing and painting - I will also need to start designing some decals, which will occupy a few evenings.

I'm certainly thinking that scanning in the Hornby model would be the best way to do this, once I've learned how on the course, and also think the glazing could be done with the laser cutter so the panels exactly fit the apertures.

This is where the two intermediate cars stand at the moment:

pendo colour.jpg

pendo colour 2.jpg

I'm really pleased with how these are coming out given this is my first ever attempt at using CAD, and It's getting me thinking about plenty of other bits of rolling stock I could draw up...

David
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#19 Steven B

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:58

Anyhows, David will be in a position to produce to order once he has all his CADs done and very quickly the market for a N gauge Pendolino will be satisfied.


The market for a Pendolino won't be satisfied by a complete kit, never mind a few Shapeways parts (how ever good they're looking). A kit for a 9 coach train is a lot of work for even the most commited kit building. I can't see more than a hand-full of people having a go.

One of the good things to come of Virgin loosing the WCML franchise is that the trains will get a new livery which may increase the chances of them being produced.

Happy modelling.

Steven B.
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#20 bmthtrains - David

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:18

I've had one final attempt to merge the wire frame pendolino nose I found in the 3D warehouse to my model, and its a bit of a Frankenstein's monster, you can see where the bits have been sewn together!

That said, some of the flaws in this are less than 0.05mm, so I may just send this to shapeways anyway just to see what it comes out like.

David

pendo monster.jpg

#21 steam-driven boy

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:32

Hi,

The market for a Pendolino won't be satisfied by a complete kit, never mind a few Shapeways parts (how ever good they're looking). A kit for a 9 coach train is a lot of work for even the most commited kit building. I can't see more than a hand-full of people having a go.

One of the good things to come of Virgin loosing the WCML franchise is that the trains will get a new livery which may increase the chances of them being produced.

Some truth there, maybe a lot, but given the opportunity to try I'd be glad to take a swing at it - most things depend on the determination of the individual as ably demonstrated by David with his original Pendolino, and by his early efforts shown here.
A bird in the hand... 8)

Regards, Gerry.

#22 red death

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 14:30

I've had one final attempt to merge the wire frame pendolino nose I found in the 3D warehouse to my model, and its a bit of a Frankenstein's monster, you can see where the bits have been sewn together!

That said, some of the flaws in this are less than 0.05mm, so I may just send this to shapeways anyway just to see what it comes out like.


David

Provided it is watertight/manifold then it looks pretty good to me.

As you say it is easy to become worried about what looks like huge flaws, which when you work things out are actually tiny! I have found that one of the most difficult things about 3D modelling - knowing how much detail to include and what detail to exaggerate (as there are certain things on some models that the eye expects to see even if to scale they would be far too small).

The caveat when using train sim images is that often they are designed to minimise the polygons in the design whereas we often want the detail.

Laser cutting the windows seems like a sensible choice.

I'm really impressed with how quickly you have done this!

Cheers, Mike

#23 davetheroad

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 15:02

Brilliant work, i for one would be willing to assemble enough parts for a train or two

A few questions.

1. bogies - are you having a go at these as well?
2. power chassis - which one?
3. length between bogies - longer than a Mk4?

Finally tilting - not needed at all, we can elevate out curves if we want a tilt and anyway Pendolinos don't tilt when sitting in stations.

#24 bmthtrains - David

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 21:21

I'm not going to attempt bogies yet, this is really a first step into 3d so starting with just bodyshells to fit on the mk4s I used for the scratch built 390 a few years back. Good thing about this though is that you can of course just upgrade bits as you go on, so definitely will try them when more confident.

Shapeways practically laughed at my upload of the driving car, so back to drawing board on that! Think I'm trying to get too much detail in, need to first work out how to get a good shape, then worry about increasing the detail. I forget when using the cad software actually how small the model will really be!

I've also been thinking of some easier side projects to do, and think a class 180 would be good to try, the nose is much simpler, but I'm also going to do a London midland class 172. This is an ideal project to improve my cad inputting skills as I can effectively draw up from measurements of a Farish 170, then do the modifications. A 321 should also be fairly simple (compared to this Pendolino!)

I may be creating a monster here...

David

#25 Paul tpxguard

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 09:39

How about obsevation coach caroline







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