Andy Y Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 See https://www.model-ra...ltree_with_DCC/ Tony Wright reviews the latest from Bachmann - the Scottish 'Director' 62677 Edie Ochiltree with DCC fitted. The full review will be in the November 2012 issue of BRM! What a magnificent model this is. These large 4-4-0s were elegance personified, even with the stumpy boiler fittings and lowered cab, and Bachmann has captured the overall impression to perfection. On checking with all the drawings/dimensions at my disposal I can find no major discrepancies at all. All wheels are the correct diameter, to RP 25 profile, true round and with back-to-backs accurate and consistent enough to pass perfectly through my mixture of hand-built and proprietary pointwork. Not having DCC (nor ever wanting it!), I was only able to run on DC, so even, slow running was impossible. However, on a friend's DCC system the loco behaved impeccably - quiet, smooth and powerful thanks to its beautifully-engineered motor and plenty of ballast. The bogie is sprung (not attached to the mainframes but to the underneath of the footplate) and guides the loco perfectly in to curves and crossings. As can be seen from the photographs, the decoder is fitted inside the tender (where there's also provision for fitting a speaker), and this does result in a mass of wires between the loco and tender which are clipped to the adjustable drawbar. There appears to be a blanking plug provided for those not needing DCC, but why would anyone pay for a DCC-enabled loco if it were not wanted? I hope this isn't going to be indicative of the future where all new locos are DCC-fitted at source. Neat, wrap-around tender pick-ups are fitted, rubbing on the outer ends (inboard of the wheels) of the insulated axles, supplementing those wiper-types on the loco's drivers, though to fully separate the loco and tender one has to remove the front tender axle to allow the plug to pass, and this action could bend those pick-ups if not done carefully. Removal of both loco body and tender body is simplicity itself. The bodywork is superb, with masses of separate detail fitted. Worthy of individual mention are the correctly-shaped chimney and dome, firebox detail, the correctly shaped, curved-end reversing lever (denoting long-travel valves), correct rivet detail at the front end, various handrails, a representation of the inside motion, sprung buffers, injector/ejector pipework and the work of art that is the cab interior. The tender, naturally inherited from the O4, correctly has no pick-up gear and is a superb model in its own right. It comes complete with a cast-metal coal load which falls out every time the vehicle is inverted. It made a mark on my wooden floor! The overall finish on this model is among the best I have ever seen. The BR lined black is beautifully applied and the lining/numerals/brandings fully up to professional standards. The name is perfectly placed in the clear Gill sans font, contained in the correct, red-only-lined splasher. The lining panel on the cabside correctly denotes a loco painted at Inverurie, and that works used a plain rectangle, as opposed to Cowlairs which lined the panel following the footplate contours. Tony Wright Read Tony’s complete review of this model in the November 2012 issue of BRM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markeg Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Its good to see Tony Wright still continuing to do reviews. I just count it a privilege to have spoken to him on the phone for about 20 minutes last year while visiting the UK. I'm glad to read his review is so positive of Bachmann's D11/2. I have ordered the NRM GCR Butler Henderson. I may buy the D11/1 Prince Albert coming out later this year and have put in a request to Bachmann to release a D10, in particular 5433/62654 Walter Burgh Gair. Always on top of my wish list. Not fussed if its LNER or BR as I will convert one anyway and buy several to give to my brother and sister. Only because it has the same surname as me/us. Actually I remember seeing his name in our family history book. Bachmann are doing an excellent job at meeting LNER/ER needs. Looking forward to the J11 too. So if this review is anything to go by, LNER/BR modellers wont be disppointed. Mark Gair in Oz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted September 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2012 Nice review, stunning loco. I believe all locos will be DCC ready at source in the future Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Well, that's different, having the four coupled chassis as a separate unit. I guess they have gone for that because a forward continuation of the chassis block to carry the bogie pivot would end up too slight in depth for robustness. I am going to trust that "I was only able to run on DC, so even, slow running was impossible." is an unintended mangling of 'I was only able to run on DC, even so, slow running was possible.'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 My credit card has run awa' screaming... Ok, conversion wheels? And the D11/1's to come....................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted September 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2012 I am going to trust that "I was only able to run on DC, so even, slow running was impossible." is an unintended mangling of 'I was only able to run on DC, even so, slow running was possible.'. I hope you're right but Tony's original does make sense, if read as "...so slow and even running was impossible..." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Will we be told why slow and even running is impossible on DC, or is this an a priori stance of Tony Wright for all DC-driven locos? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 18, 2012 Will we be told why slow and even running is impossible on DC, or is this an a priori stance of Tony Wright for all DC-driven locos? Allowing that the piece has been subject to precis it reads to me that although it was DCC fitted he was unable to test it in that mode and could only test it on DC. The implication, coupled with another point he makes later, seems to be that a DCC fitted loco will not (by this example) deliver even slow running on DC; he certainly makes the point about a 'beautifully engineered motor'. However I believe said gentleman looks in here occasionally and no doubt he will clarify for us if he comes across this debate - otherwise it will no doubt be clearer when we see the full version in the forthcoming issue of BRM. The problem with all this exGC stuff coming from Bachmann is that it looks so good and therefore very attractive but I'm not inclined to move my layout ideas to GW&GC Jt territory as I shall be in the poorhouse even sooner than the current crop of Western stuff will take me there. However should some suitable coaching stock start to appear ... nah, (note to self - don't!!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 It was a DCC fitted loco rather than the vanilla option hence Tony giving it a run on a suitable layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 There's a full review and test in Model Rail (issue published October 4). We had no problems with slow running on our sample which is the DCC-ready version, so Tony's fears about being forced to buy a chipped loco whether he wants it or not, are unfounded. Bachmann flies in a few review samples for magazines and they are usually all different versions, so no two magazines get an identical model. I've never found a problem running a chipped loco on analogue, indeed the Blue Pullman is chipped and it runs beautifully on analogue. However, you can't use a chipped loco if you have Relco-type track cleaners in operation. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I am still a bit confused. Is Tony Wright saying he was unable to run this chipped loco in DC mode or that it is impossible to run this chipped loco in DC mode? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 If you run DC and you're worried by the DCC version not running smoothly on DC the model will be available without decoder as 'Lady of the Lake'. I was in Harburn Hobbies in Edinburgh last week, they had pre-production samples of both in a display cabinet and very nice they looked too. Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I see Bachmann have the correct for 62677, but heraldically incorrect, version of the late BR emblem on the tender - with the lion facing forward on both sides. Nice to see this attention to detail - the original samples of the model had the 'proper' version of the emblem - wrong for this engine. (OT - I wonder, though, if this might get Bachmann into trouble with the heraldic authorities, as happened to BR in the 1:1 scale world? ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 My experience of chipped locos is that although they run on DC, is that some don't run as smoothly as under DCC. The ability to perform well on DCC and DC is I'm sure down to the individual decoder. In the example given regarding the Blue pullman I suspect that the chip has be matched to DCC and DC for best performance . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 This review has certainly whet me appetite for the Anglo version. It turns out my extending the 4mm OA&GB from Oldham Glodwick Road as far as Greenfield was furtuitous, as anything steam from Guide Bridge could turn up in the rush hour........Vee already haf de GC coaches! After blanking off the chip, does this effectively remove it from the electrical circuit? Also, have Bachmann found that over 50% of modellers use DCC seeing as the remainder have to faff about blanking the chips off? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 This review has certainly whet me appetite for the Anglo version. It turns out my extending the 4mm OA&GB from Oldham Glodwick Road as far as Greenfield was furtuitous, as anything steam from Guide Bridge could turn up in the rush hour........Vee already haf de GC coaches! After blanking off the chip, does this effectively remove it from the electrical circuit? Also, have Bachmann found that over 50% of modellers use DCC seeing as the remainder have to faff about blanking the chips off? This is a DCC version , buy the other one coming out for DC . Blanking the chip kills the DCC otherwise pointless and a lot of smoke !!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted September 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2012 Tony Wright has asked me to clarify the line in his review that has been causing confusion. I think what has happened is that some readers have missed the comma between the words "even" and "slow". Tony accepts that it might have been clearer with the wording reversed:- slow and even running..........but nevertheless that comma was there for a purpose. Anyway, he wishes to make clear that all he was trying to say is that he knew that a DCC fitted loco would run on DC, but not as well as on the system for which it is designed. That's why he asked if he could run it on my layout to see how much DCC control would improve it. I can confirm that performance was impressive straight out of the box, even though the loco had not been run in,and without my altering any CV's at all.It will run on DC, and quite well too, but it will not move away as slowly and smoothly. It was certainly not his intention to have a jibe at DCC generally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 It has been suggested on another forum (and I believe correctly) that the rivet pattern on the smokebox saddle is for a short travel valve engine. The long travel valves were denoted by an almost horizontal double line of rivets, not the shallow 'U' seen here. Any further opinion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted September 24, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 24, 2012 Has anybody spotted a bit of an error in the review? The tender is not inherited from the O4 (which had an ROD tender)! It is the self trimming type, which has a similar appearance from the outside but is wider, has different flares and a totally different interior. These tenders were, I think, unique to the Scottish Directors as they were the only self trimming ones built without water scoops (no troughs on their Scottish routes). The Bachmann tender is the right type for Scottish Directors and I have to say that it looks pretty gorgeous. I was going to resist the Bachmann offerings as I started modelling the GCR so that I wasn't having to run my kit and scracthbuilt locos next to superb RTR ones but I find myself weakening......... I may just break when the GCR liveried one comes along. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 ..... I was going to resist the Bachmann offerings as I started modelling the GCR so that I wasn't having to run my kit and scracthbuilt locos next to superb RTR ones but I find myself weakening......... I may just break when the GCR liveried one comes along.... Temptation is an evil mistress.... It gets you in the end... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 It has been suggested on another forum (and I believe correctly) that the rivet pattern on the smokebox saddle is for a short travel valve engine. The long travel valves were denoted by an almost horizontal double line of rivets, not the shallow 'U' seen here. Any further opinion? That was me, actually I'm surprised that Tony Wright missed out this error, given his position as a locomotive expert. Anyhow, there's nothing stopping you filing off the incorrect rivet pattern and substituting your own using segments of styrene rod / wire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 It was indeed.... but I didn't want to look as if I was dobbing you in it. I hadn't spotted it, so kudos for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I am still a bit confused. Is Tony Wright saying he was unable to run this chipped loco in DC mode or that it is impossible to run this chipped loco in DC mode? My admittedly limited experience of running DCC locos on DC is that they need more power to get them to move in the first place, then they run away, hence NBG for shunting. TW could be having a similar problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benachie Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Horsetan, "there's nothing stopping you filing off the incorrect rivet pattern and substituting your own using segments of styrene rod / wire." Or Archer rivets http://www.archertransfers.com/index.html Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Horsetan, "there's nothing stopping you filing off the incorrect rivet pattern and substituting your own using segments of styrene rod / wire." Or Archer rivets http://www.archertra....com/index.html Alan When you've paid through the nose for the D11/2, will there actually be enough money left to buy Archers' rivets? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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