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Waverley Route new image links and discussion


'CHARD
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Learn this much about 'Chard, he can be a right selfish so-and-so. The only reason this link is being put up now, is that a three-fifty has appeared on the W/B and this is the reference shot:

 

http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=17970

 

WOW! January 1967, BLUE shunter at Kelso!!!! Check out the new-looking housing at left too.

 

Looking at this pic, the lack of lifting eyes on the buffer beam of the jocko struck me. The early position of the double arrow is a great era definer too.

 

Looking at the photograpgh it looks to have a Steel Cab Door which makes 08 705 or above (see link below). 08 725 was allocated to Leith Central 08/68 to 02/68 no others appear to fit the bill.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/6622-class-08-09-variations/page__fromsearch__1

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We have footage elsewhere of D3878 at Hawick (becoming 08711 later), so it may be that redoubtable beast again. Thanks for that link, awesome summary of jocko detail differences, cheers!

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Many thanks for posting these links. Only just found time to have a good browse through them. Some fascinating stuff. I do like the one of Blue Peter at Gorebridge. A station that did seem to be very camera shy. Seeing it was in the middle of a coal mine that's hardly surprising.

Bernard

Hi Bernard,

 

Gorebridge Station wasn't in the middle of a coal mine...

 

The photo of Blue Peter is correctly identified as at Gorebridge though.

 

Attached is photo of station building in current condition.

 

Thanks

post-6887-12623730120381_thumb.jpg

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We have footage elsewhere of D3878 at Hawick (becoming 08711 later), so it may be that redoubtable beast again. Thanks for that link, awesome summary of jocko detail differences, cheers!

 

D3878 / 08711 was allocated 64H 02/67 to 07/67 so a a later date than the photograph.

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D3878 / 08711 was allocated 64H 02/67 to 07/67 so a a later date than the photograph.

I just checked the Harris and the Leith Central allocation was created (on paper at least) in 02/67 by the reallocation en masse of the St Margarets 08s, many of which had been there since new in 1960. Those outbased at the time of the switch were doubtless unaffected until they were next towed back to the capital for exam. I must confess I knew of Leith Central suddenly acquiring Edinburgh's nomadic shunter responsibilities, but I wasn't aware it happened at this point!

 

EDIT: and here's a picture of home in 1985

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=16656

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Hi Dave,

 

Today it's an ex-Restaurant...

 

Complusary purchase or presure sale - I don't know.

 

The houses out of shot to the right of camera all encroached on the right of way and have been subect to a compulsory purchase order - to be demolished eventually.

 

I would have gone up for a 'Today's View' but we have about 12" of snow and no snowplough or gritters on duty!

 

I did have all this lot up on Fotopic but was asked to remove the whole gallery I did of the station sites between Millerhill and Galashiels.

 

I noticed (before the snow) that there must have been a contractors vehicle on parts of the trackbed as there was some new brush clearance and fence repairs visible.

 

Newtongrange Viaduct has also had another visit from someone with big shears. All the saplings that had started to appear over the parapet have gone.

 

More pictures if required!

 

Thanks

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Guest Max Stafford

I was actually surprised to see that 5068 was such an early casualty. From the '66A' on the cabside, it looks like she was a 1972 withdrawal since the 'two letter' shedcode system was only adopted the following year.

Loving the adjoining 'Clayton' shot too with the Red Road flats looming behind in the style of the '2001' monolith. Those spectacular carbuncles figure large in the last two years of this part of the traditional 'Caley' route to Aberdeen. Lofty and unpleasant places that also figure prominently in my childhood memories along with the rubble of 65B and the bare ballast of the surrounding lines, I will nevertheless enjoy witnessing their demolition, which will likely be soon, given the rate these blocks are vanishing from Glasgow's skyline! :icon_thumbsup2:

 

Dave.

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You had to take the gallery down? Without going too far O/T - errr by whom and why, dare I ask?

Hi 'chard,

 

I contacted the Waverley Rail Project team with a request to use the pdf plan files for the stations I had photos of.

 

See http://www.waverleyrailwayproject.co.uk/

 

I had a reply asking that I take the gallery down and then a 'phone call which queried my interest and what my intent was by creating the Fotopic site.

 

The reason given at the time was for the request was - 'Due to the sensitive situation we currently find ourselves in'.

 

You have to bear in mind that there has been, and continues to be, a large amount of hostility regarding the houses/trackbed and land along the route that needed, and still needs, to be obtained from various owners - some of it quite hostile and subject to court cases.

 

The request came as no suprise really.

 

Anyway, with things as they were - I took down the site to avoid any complications.

 

Thanks

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'Chard, thanks for finding all these photos for us, they're marvellous.

Re the "Thirsty Clayton taking water at Carstairs", is it not more likely that the driver is trying to put out the fire?

 

Jim

Pah, braver types in the west: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=22895 (warning: non-waverley content)

where someone's clearly more confident in this particular Clayton's fire-resistance, judging by the positioning of the barrier :blink:

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I had a reply asking that I take the gallery down and then a 'phone call which queried my interest and what my intent was by creating the Fotopic site.

Having just come off a similar project as it neared completion, I can kinda see both sides of this. The sponsoring party, more often than not a public body that must behave in a fair and impartial manner (and as custodian of public funds), is also locked into sensitive commercial and often tense legal discussions with affected third parties.

 

Whilst it's unlikely they (Transport Scotland) could conventionally shut down a photo gallery through the courts, they may act (through a friendly word) to manage reputational and project risk by seeking to remove data that may act - albeit inadvertantly - as a rallying-point for objectors, dissenters and opponents of the project. In this case the affected gardens, or at Stow the house extension.

 

Incidentally, I am unfamiliar with Law north of Kershopefoot, so what I just wrote may be entirely fallacious!

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If you took your photos from a public place then it would appear no one has any right to prevent you taking photos of these places or using them as you wish.

 

See Photographers rights

 

Jeremy

Hi Jeremy,

 

Photos taken from public places - Probably correct. I say probably as with all the compulsory purchase stuff going on it is hard to keep track of what is or isn't public anymore.

 

As the trackbed has been used as a pathway, officially in places and unofficially in others, for the years since closure - it's a difficult call. There are no notices saying that CP orders have been granted - We do occasionally see announcements about them in the local papers but not that often. If there has been a private sale - we don't find out at all.

 

Well aware of Photographers Rights and always carry a copy in the camera bag.

 

I don't think this was a case of preventing photos being taken, just of them being published where they were.

 

Thanks

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Learn this much about 'Chard, he can be a right selfish so-and-so. The only reason this link is being put up now, is that a three-fifty has appeared on the W/B and this is the reference shot:

 

http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=17970

 

WOW! January 1967, BLUE shunter at Kelso!!!! Check out the new-looking housing at left too.

 

Looking at this pic, the lack of lifting eyes on the buffer beam of the jocko struck me. The early position of the double arrow is a great era definer too.

 

I'd guestimate D3884

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I'd guestimate D3884

I'm liking that, I couldn't manipulate the image earlier because the laptop threw a strop, but the last digit looked that way to me too. When I think on, there'll be a refresh of p80 of the bible* ;)

 

* 1968 combine (reprint)

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Yesterday - possibly - I posed the question about what the rail-over-road span looked like by Arniston colliery, between Gorebridge and Lady Vic. pit. This is where the Route crossed the A7 and the area is today unrecognisable, following afforestation and road improvements.

 

When I asked the question I could not recall the precise name of the location, despite reference to maps, but unaccountably it just came back to me: Shank Bridge. A Google search threw up the image at the end of this link: http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search_item/index.php?service=RCAHMS&id=160837

This is the A7 crossing the valley cut by the Gore Burn, looking towards the escarpment along which the Waverley runs left (Edinburgh) to right (Gorebridge). The picture was taken in the long hot summer of '76, and the road bridge was replaced during the next two years. I vaguely recall the old A7 here, both this crossing and the rail bridge were rather spectacular. Now there is only blandness. I am still hopeful that pictures exist of the lost structure barely 1/4 mile from here, the A7 must have been closed for a while for the demolition at least.

 

EDIT: further text on the source page refers to another picture 'railway bridge visible in background.'

Seemingly the new road crossing of the burn was built 29m west, but satellite imagery suggests that all trace of the Victorian structure has been airbrushed off the face of the earth.

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Happy New Year to all our readers.

 

Starting this Saturday off with a bit of a catch-up, here's Leith Central for those of you who may have missed her. This station has a fascinating history, not least for being the home depot of the shunters and DMUs that plied the Waverley in its final 23 months...

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=16656

 

As we're in former station mode, here's Canonbie GS

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17786

Scotch Dyke

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17170

Gilnockie

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17135

The elusive Penton

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17119

Newcastleton

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17102

Shankend

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=18120

Stobs

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17974

Hassendean today

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=18117

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=18100

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17948

Belses

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17939

and last, St Boswells' remains

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17121

 

Elegant Tarras viaduct just south of Langholm, demolished in 1987, senselessly I suspect

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17949

Happliy Barnes viaduct lives on

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17944

 

Signalbox corner for Millerhill Boy, this time Hardengreen when it had neither junctions nor bankers to look after, note 2644SP

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17896

 

For Bernard, here's the Restaurant at Gorebridge with 64B-boy's D760X passing hauling the Hawick pilot, for one suspects, one of the very last few times...

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17882

 

Great poignant human stories Part 93, last Kelso - again:

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17963

 

Ouch! If you missed it previously over on the Shankend SB thread:

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=18011

 

A 4MT leaves Kingmoor, the Waverley down departure line clearly visible to right

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=18167

 

Bittern at Hawick

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=18064

 

And last for now, two incredible human story pics, I think Northern Maiden has modelled signal box flowers, how about tomato plants?

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=18007

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=17983

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Mention of the Lady Vic. Pit reminds me of a story I heard long ago. After the official withdrawal of steam they continued to use a BR loco for pit traffic. After a few days the authorities found out and this operation ceased. Any one able to comfirm this story or supply any more information?

Bernard

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Gorebridge. One would have thought that commuter trains would terminate here in the morning peak and start here in the evening, but the sole example of this appeared to do so only for reasons of operational convenience.

Looking at the timetables for earlier periods it would seem that more trains did termimate here at one time. A lot of them, the majority in some eras, were SO and then all in the afternoon and evening. Information on the 1910 and 1940s services is given in one of the books by Robert Robotham. In the days when Saturday was part of the normal working week this would have provided a means of travelling into the city centre for shopping, football or a night out. The 10.15 pm terminated at Esk Bank on most days, but carried on to Gorebridge on a Saturday.

Bernard

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Mention of the Lady Vic. Pit reminds me of a story I heard long ago. After the official withdrawal of steam they continued to use a BR loco for pit traffic. After a few days the authorities found out and this operation ceased. Any one able to comfirm this story or supply any more information?

Bernard

Hi Bernard,

 

I've raised this query in other places some time ago and never managed to get confirmation one way or another.

 

Having spoken with former workers at Lady Vic they desricbed what sounds to me as a J94 tank.

 

I've been through the Scottish Mining Museum of Lady Vic records and there is nothing to confirm this.

 

However - I did find a record to show that there was an ex L&Y open still on site when the pit closed and that it may be buried under spoil on site with the remains of some other wagons.

 

Exactly what that means - I don't know.

 

My grandfather worked for NCB at Lady Vic and said that when the pit closed there was a big bonfire of whatever wagons etc that could not be removed or were of no interest to the scrapman.

 

Thanks

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While we're in the vicinity of Lady Victoria pit, let's take a look at the line as it passes here in 2007:

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=13793

 

And rewind to 1971, disregard caption, for what purports to be Heljan D8529 alongside the colliery with a very modellable short raft of 16T coalers...

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=13792

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While we're in the vicinity of Lady Victoria pit, let's take a look at the line as it passes here in 2007:

http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=13793

 

And rewind to 1971, disregard caption, for what purports to be Heljan D8529 alongside the colliery with a very modellable short raft of 16T coalers...

http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=13792

Newtongrange & Lady Victoria Pit....

 

Photo 1 - Site of new station.

Looking south towards Galashiels

post-6887-12624505998612_thumb.jpg

 

Photo 2 - Site of new station.

Looking north towards Edinburgh

post-6887-12624508729045_thumb.jpg

 

Loads more if they are of interest!

 

I tried to limit the number of photos for each of the new Waverley stations but found so much of interest that I just kept on taking more photos!

 

Thanks

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Hi Bernard,

 

I've raised this query in other places some time ago and never managed to get confirmation one way or another.

 

Having spoken with former workers at Lady Vic they desricbed what sounds to me as a J94 tank.

 

I've been through the Scottish Mining Museum of Lady Vic records and there is nothing to confirm this.

 

However - I did find a record to show that there was an ex L&Y open still on site when the pit closed and that it may be buried under spoil on site with the remains of some other wagons.

 

Exactly what that means - I don't know.

 

My grandfather worked for NCB at Lady Vic and said that when the pit closed there was a big bonfire of whatever wagons etc that could not be removed or were of no interest to the scrapman.

 

Thanks

 

According to my copy of the Industrial Railway Societies' handbook the 'Industrial Railways of Scotland' Lady Victoria Colliery never had any MOS Austerity 0-6-0ST locos allocated [J94 only applies to those members of the class purchased by the LNER].

 

Lady Victoria was best known for its Andrew Barclay and Grant Ritchie 0-4-2STs, which unfortunately I missed seeing. The Grant Ritchie later ended up at the Prestongrange museum and the Barclay, I believe, went to the Tanfield Railway, though I don't know where either of these loco are now.

 

The attached photo was taken of the GR loco at Prestongrange

 

Jeremy

post-7313-12624618384641_thumb.jpg

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Jamie, that is an awesome link, and the first time I've managed to get the site to work for me. The aerial photos are incredible - just shows exactly HOW MUCH was destroyed by Beeching. There are some B&W photos at this link, judging by the from-train shots behind D1970, they were taken on the final weekend. This is the first time I have seen the goods yard side-on (check out the vehicles), the formal gardens or, sad to say, the scale of devastation brought in the last few years by Asda and Tesco.

 

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/99782/details/galashiels+station+brae+galashiels+station/

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Your starter for ten is... Hawick on RCAHMS

This is another site that is hard to navigate around. Well for me at least.

They have an excellent collection of maps. It should be possible to view large scale maps and to view the same section of map as at different dates. I did this for the Balerno branch once but cannot remember exactly where to find the maps or how to do it. It's worth a look as it does make finding the locations of old photographs a lot easier.

Bernard

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