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Kernow Models D6xx Update


Andy Y
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Clive,

 

How does the publication define class 7 and class 7*?

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave

 

Class 7 were express freight without the requirement for there to be a portion of the train coupled and piped to the locomotive with a automatic brake.

 

A class 7* required a portion of automatic brake fitted vehicles to be coupled and piped to the locomotive to increase its brake force owing to diesels having less brake power than steam locomotives. In the freight load books there are tables stating the number of basic wagon units in the train how many of them made up the minimum number of standard braked vehicles. From here on it starts to get complicated without showing the mass of tables that show the wagon capacity, the load, or if it is empty that make up basic wagon units. Standard braked vehicles are not so complicated, one standard wagon is a wagon firtted with a automatic vacuum brake cylinder, a wagon fitted with two cylinders like a 16 ton mineral or a 21 ton mineral were counted as 2 standard brake vehicles, laden wagons with a capcity of 26 tons or more were counted as 3 standard brake vehicles and a brake tender was counted as 5 standard brake vehicles. If there were disc braked wagons, 3 x 21 tonners equaled 4 standard brake vehilces and 5 x 24 ton were counted as 8. Another factor was if the locomotive had six wheel bogies or 4 wheeled bogies, 4 wheeled bogied locomotives required more standard brake vehicles. Double headed trains counted the second locomotive as 10 standard braked vehicles for a six wheeld bogie loco and 8 for a four wheeled bogie loco.

 

It is also worth remembering by 1967 there were air and vacuum braked wagons and the braked portion had to be of the same type.

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Sorry, I'm a bit late acting on the request to split the recent content out of this into Dave's new topic http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64073-british-railways-publications-1948-to-1980/#entry840073 and moving/merging it now would mess up the chronology of the new topic so if anything needs copying over there it may be best to click on 'Reply quoting this post', copy the text box content and paste that into a new post in the new topic (if that makes sense?).

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Hi Mike

 

I know you worked on the railway so I will always listen to what you say but I took my information form Freight Train Loads Book, ER (GNR) 1967, a BR document. I was always lead to believe the headcode classification of trains was standard across BR.

 

I know that they changed over the years. I have for 1962 the following.

Class 4, Express freight, pipe fitted throughout with the automatic vacuum brake operative on not less than half of the vehicles piped to the engine.

Class 5, Express freight, not less than one third vacuum braked vehicles piped to the engine.

Class 6, Express freight, not less than four vacuum braked vehicles piped to the engine.

Class 7, Epress freight, not fitted with continuous brake.

Class 8, Through freight, not running under class 4,5, 6 or 7 conditions.

Class 9, Pick up freight.

 

The Freight Train Loads Books are a wealth of information inregards to what vehicles can be conveyed in what trains. It is a pity I have recently lent my LMR books covering the 50s and 60s to a friend and I cannot show some other variations over the years.

Post 1969 there were major changes.

Clive

 

There were Regional differences in Freight Train Loads Books - considerable differences at times and some of them used incorrect terminology (not on my railway they didn't of course - well not in the 5 years when I was responsible for them ;) ). Incidentally the correct practice was that subsidiary documents should use the standard descriptions, i.e. as in the Rule Book or General Appendix but that was not infrequently observed in the breach and folk just kept carrying forward their own version of the wording

 

The official details which I gave are from the General Appendix as at 1967 but Regions were at liberty to specify, in their Loads Book, that all automatic brake fitted vehicles in a train should be marshalled next to the engine. 7* were entirely an Eastern Region brainchild although attempts were made I think to spread the idea elsewhere and in any case the arrival of the new Freight Train Loads system in 1968 resulted in more changes to classifications which were taken a step further in 1969.

 

.

 

The big advantage of the 1968 change was that Brake Force was turned into a simple matter of adding up numbers with no need to any longer worry about what equalled what - every fitted wagon had a Brake force and that was that, just add them together and make sure you had enough Brake Force to meet the required classification or find some more or declassify the train.

 

'Pick Up freight' was not a term used in the General Appendix and the normal descriptive term was 'Trip Freight' - with the timings shown in the 'Trip Booklet' although that did vary a bit and even in Trainload Freight days we were still trying to get some things done in the same way across our 5 planning offices, not always successfully regrettably as the LM seemed to enjoy living in a past railway (they even had some freight trains running in steam hauled timings in the early 1990s :O ).

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Clive,

 

I've had time to study the WTT now, 3A10 was the 13.32 St Erth to Kensington milk service in April 67, 20.55 passing Taunton.

 

Best regards

 

Dave

 

Which often got diverted via Yeovil, Romsey and Winchester (according to Para 1, subsection 7A of my modellers licence - Active also did survive until 1978) as did the return empties during the day...............Hey - it's lucky I've got one on order then ............ :yes:

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Mornin' S'man,

 

There could be double optimisim in your 'modellers licence'. The loco working the milk tanks away from St Erth may not be the loco which arrived with them in Kensington. On long journeys loco swaps were commonplace, Plymouth being a favourite because of the proximity of Laira TMD.

 

Dave

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Loco swaps at Plymouth seemed to be the norm at the time. The "600s" were often confined west of Laira as they were thought unreliable and not fit for higher-speed main line work by some men. On the other hand we didn't see "1000s" as far west as Penzance except on a couple of the more important trains. "Warships" of all kinds were far more common.

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You could collect all five and enjoy a 1960s blue diesel as well ;) Why not a little modeller's licence? I'm sure a good many of us will be taking one or more of these locos for guest appearances on layouts sometimes themed far beyond where they ever ran.

 

As we say in Cornwall "matter do 'ee?"

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Evenin' all,

 

The thought of one of these for Torr Giffard is a pleasant one but I have no evidence for any trips over the Plymouth - Tavistock - Exeter (former LSWR route) or does someone know differently?

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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The thought of one of these for Torr Giffard is a pleasant one but I have no evidence for any trips over the Plymouth - Tavistock - Exeter (former LSWR route) or does someone know differently?

I know nothing - as usual, Dave! - but flooding etc at Dawlish is always a reason why GW Cornish traffic might be diverted.
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Hmmm, a 1963ish freight working with maybe D603 in green with small yellow panels is a possibility. The blue livery with headcode boxes leaves me cold, added to which trips to Exeter are reported as rare in their later years.

 

I checked the route availability thinking that it would be high but 5 sounds reasonable, the D8xx warships showing 6.

 

The spectre of a quality P4 wheelset conversion looms again.

 

A few 'home' team locos to be sourced first though.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71
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Aft'noon all,

 

Researching a few colour pics of D603 Conquest

 

A couple of lovely pics in 'The Heyday of the Hydraulics' by Hugh Dady in all over green running into Truro in May 59 also 'The WR Diesel Hydraulics' again by Hugh Dady and this time with the small yellow panels standing in the snow at Plymouth NR in January 1963.

 

More colour joy in 'The Heyday of the Warships' again by Hugh Dady has 1959 and 1961 pics of an all green D603

 

http://www.flickr.co...N07/4973350483/ is a 1964 B&W pic at Plymouth NR, still green with small yellow panels.

 

http://www.flickr.co...N07/6899218786/ and an undated colour pic but definitely in need of a repaint

 

http://transportsofd...78617&k=ccswmPT May 67 colour pic at Plymouth NR

 

From the December 2004 issue of Traction comes a summer 1963 pic of D603 at Plymouth NR in green with small yellow panels.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

Edited by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71
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Where there is precious little photographic record is the short lived reprieve the D600s had in 1967 when they were shortly based in South Wales. Perhaps Michael's quite breathtaking skills in winkling out the most amazing photos could find more on this. In the numerous books I have in hydraulics I have only one photo (D602) in BSYP in this period.

 

Neil

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Maybe but far more noteworthy. I wonder if it did get further than Crewe.

The sight of D800s at Crewe was an everyday occurance between mid '62 and mid '64. They were the mainstay of the North & West express services between Bristol/Plymouth/Penzance and Crewe/Manchester/Liverpool at this time. The service would have changed engines at Crewe and the Warship wouldn't have got any further.

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Spoke to Chris T at the members day yesterday and he is thinking it is likely to be 2014.

 

Good things come to those who wait (and my layout still won't be ready for mine even then.....)

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