Layout ideas for a 12'x8' space in 00

[Sam*45110*SVR]

Hi all, my parents have generously allowed me a 12 x 8 ish space in the garage and I had an idea of what I wanted, put it on anyrail, and this happened. Looks a bit too much in the space don't you think, just a fiddle yard on the other side.

Maybe time for rethink, what's actually possible in this space with looking like a train set?

 

(edit 19/06/13  sorry I just realised I forgot to add this ! I think I would probably get bored with just a tail chaser or just an end to end so I thought that with careful design and interchangeable tunnel mouth and retaining wall sections at the end of the through platforms I could have both, I'd just use the wall when I want a terminus, then if I feel like just watching trains go by I'd put the tunnel mouth in instead.)

[Kris]

It looks "train set" like because you have some tight curves going directly into straight. Putting the whole thing on a curve would change the whole thing.

[Katier]

As Kris said the issue isn't so much what your trying to fit into the space but the use of train set curves and straights.

 

The type of thing your trying to fit into the space WILL fit, it just needs tweaking and smoothing out. I'd probably change quite a bit of the actual plan, myself, but the principle of a 2 through/2 terminus/1 bay station would work.

 

Changes I'd personally make ( facilities wise) :-

 

Bring the MPD 'inside' the oval which allows a wider radius curve for the mainline.

Drop the bay platform.

Bring the terminal platforms 'inside' and drop the central release road (not a problem with them as such - just making things a bit simpler with little loss of operation).

Bring the through ?slow/goods? line through the centre as a bi-directional central road between the two through platforms.

 

RTR curved points and larger radius straight points in combination will work great in the space you have to give a smoother, more prototypical, flow through the station.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Echo both the comments above. But you are right, 12 x 8 is quite tight for the sort of layout you are trying to achieve.

 

If you can cope with the woodwork involved in multi-level, consider putting a continuous run and fiddle yard at a lower level (under a high-level terminus).

 

A lot depends on the type of trains that you want to run.

[maunsel]

The problems with stations is that they are generally bloomin' big and the platform length limits train length. There are two good solutions:-

 

1) model really long platforms. This can be financed by carefully selecting Friday night's lottery numbers.

 

or, more radically

 

2) only model one end of a station with the other end disappearing into the backscene. This allows you to realistically run a twelve coach train with a platform of 1, 2 or 3 feet length. Think overbridges, buildings blocking the view or canopies.

 

It also gives you more running track - so more action. However bay platforms will be shorter.

 

 

Regards

Eric

[Kris]

Just tried the same track plan (more or less) on a curve.

 

 

This is a 12x6 area. it could be tightened up and the lines in to the fiddle yard would need to be tight, however this does loose the set track look to my eyes.

[Crewlisle]

 

Kris,

 

What luxury - 12ft x 8ft'! Perhaps this might give you some ideas as you can stretch it to 12ft to allow a longer terminus, steam shed and continuous run.

 

This is my exhibition layout 'Crewlisle' which has been on the exhibition circuit for 20 years, has appeared at the NEC four times (last in 2009 and has been invited back for 2015), Alexandra Palace in 2011, Taunton and other exhibitions in the Southwest over the last few years. One of the reasons it is popular with visitors is that it entertains and (subject to loco movements) I let children have a go. Whilst not prototypical, the largest or most detailed, it has always provoked many compliments and surprise at how much can be built in a bedroom like without looking overcrowded. I normally run a minimum of two locos and often as many as four simultaneously. The exact size of mine is 8.5ft x 7.5ft and the section missing from the bottom right hand corner is to allow the door to open!

 

Be careful in planning to add higher or lower levels at a later date as unless you are good at woodwork, you could damage/weaken parts already built. Think what you want from your layout right from the initial planning stage. When I planned mine I wanted the WCML from my trainspotting days, a terminus, believable length expresses, steam and diesel sheds, turntable, shunting yard, double track main line with overhead catenary and a reversing loop so the trains could leave and return from the terminus. This was almost forty years ago and I have never wanted to change it because as many visitors to the exhibitions I have attended say, "It has something for everyone".

 

General Description: Set in the North West on the WCML from the mid 1950s to the early 1980s . Layout is on 3 interconnected levels with continuous run double track main line with portable overhead catenary for scale 100mph running on the middle level (manufacture and fitting article will appear in Model Rail early in 2013); 4 road terminus for my standard 6 coach expresses and goods yard/coach sidings on high level; steam & diesel sheds on high level & reversing loop on lower level. Minimum radius is equivalent to second radius set curves. Radii on view are as large as practicable. 'Up' is clockwise and 'down' is anti clockwise. The through station relief line joins the down main under the signalbox. In the same position is a trailing crossover between the up and down mainlines. The reversing loop leaves the down main under the signalbox, down the inside of the operating well, under the right hand baseboard, up under the shunting yard and joins the up main under the steam shed water tower at the top left of the plan. All these hidden junctions increase operating choices, but because they are hidden I have had to make sure there are enough lift out sections for access in case of 'accidents'!

 

My total stock comprises 24 steam locos (from Stanier Pacifics to 0-6-0 Jinty), 13 blue/green diesels (including black BR version of 10001 and prototype Deltic), HST (to be joined by a Blue Pullman after Santa has visted!), 4 electrics (AL1 class loco in early BR electric blue livery, 2 x Class 86 & 1 x Class 87) and APT; 65 passenger/parcel coaches; 114 wagons including, with modeller's licence, a rake of private owner coal wagons. There are representatives from the main ex-LMS classes and standards which worked the WCML & examples of diesel/electrics as seen in WCML service together with a couple of visitors. 10 locos are fitted with sound decoders.

 

The big question everyone asks is , "Where is your fiddleyard?". To me, fiddleyards are wasted space. On the reversing loop on the inside of the operating well is a 4.5ft lift out 'cartridge'. Underneath there are 18 other identical ones on a rack which can be lifted out and secured in position as part of the reversing loop. Each one can hold a complete train of, for example, a Class 47 + four Mk.1 coaches or 11 short wheelbase wagons. That is my fiddleyard. You can add as many racks as you want.

 

Operating positions are inside operating well and at exhibitions,bottom LH corner by diesel stabling point and by turntable. Finished conversion to DCC in 2007 and article on the conversion was featured in October and November 2008 Model Rail. All track and points are Peco Code 100 live frog. The only polarity switch on the layout is for the live diamond on the double junction and it shows that there is no need to modify points to go DCC.

 

If you want to see some videos of 'Crewlisle' at exhibitions, search under 'crewlisle%00 gauge model railway'.

[Kris]

 

Kris,

 

What luxury - 12ft x 8ft'! Perhaps this might give you some ideas as you can stretch it to 12ft to allow a longer terminus, steam shed and continuous run.

 

 

It's not my layout, I just knocked together a plan for Sam based on his initial idea.

[Crewlisle]

Kris,

 

Sorry about that; more haste less speed. I had two or three things on the go at the time and only scrolled back as far as your name!

[Sam*45110*SVR]

Wow Crewlisle, I had seen your layout in model rail a while ago but never realised it was only 8.5ft by 7.5ft ! Just shows what can be done with a bit of ingenuity ! Currently redesigning the layout plan based on the advice from this thread.

[Crewlisle]

Sam,

 

Glad you liked it. I have lost count of the number of visitors at exhibitions who have said that they had a similar area and were planning a branchline to terminus but 'Crewlisle' made them change their minds. If you stretch 'Crewlisle' with your own modifications, one of the advantages is the easing of the gradients and the reverse loop.

 

'Crewlisle' Gradients: Main line up to terminus is 1:38; reversing loop through cartridge exchange is 1:28 (normally only one way but if required to go up, a little help from the 'big hand in the sky'! This is no problem as it is in the operating well.); reversing loop to up main line (under baseboard at bottom of the plan) under coal shed is 1:33. All my pacific steam locos can handle six Bachmann Mk 1s (internal weights removed and additional weight in locos) both running and from a standing start from adverse signals (except the 1:28). 4-6-0s (Hornby, Mainline and Bachmann) and other steam locos can handle five Mk 1s or six ex-Airfix Stanier coaches (weights removed). I have a couple of tender drive steam locos with traction tyres - no problem. All diesels have plenty of weight to handle any sized train. The 1:38 could be eased out to about 1:76, the reversing loop inside the operating well 1:28 to 1:56 but the 1:33 on the reversing loop up to the main line under the bottom baseboard only eased to about 1:50. The reason for that is that on 'Crewlisle' about a quarter of that gradient is on a curve. Curves on gradients always cause loss of traction! With a longer baseboard you could keep a reasonable gradient all on the straight track.

 

Reverse Loop; In addition to reversing, I use it for storing complete trains. It can hold two six coach expresses + whatever is in the cassette. The cassettes are obviously not long enough for the six coach expresses but long enough, for example, a Class 40 + 4 Mk1s or 10 short wheelbase wagons, but are OK for shorter steam locos and diesels + 12 wagons. 4.5 ft long cassettes are about the longest that can be handled safely without tipping the stock on the floor. I have had a couple of near misses!

[Sam*45110*SVR]

I've taken the lazy option and tweaked the existed plan, among other little tweaks and adding a few buildings I have:

• Added a branch line to give an operational reason for the terminus platforms
  
• removed the bay and goods loop
  
• simplified and improved the station throat, one less expensive slip !
  
• reduced the severity of the curve on the left of the plan and added the curved crossover.
  

In case you were wondering the yellow rectangles are some superquick card island platform buildings and the brown square is a brick supporting column that is more using the wall for support rather than the other way round ! Also as this is the trial version of anyrail there is the 50 track piece limit, so that's why I haven't continued the layout onto the fiddle yard and the engine shed is randomly represented by poorly placed lines !

 

I think it looks much better now, thanks for the input. Any further suggestions very welcome.

 

Sam

[Kris]

I would put the slip right next to the curved point. This will allow you a much smoother entry into the platforms. The small point used for access to the middle road could also be moved to the other line and replaced with a medium point of the opposite hand. This will again make the flow of the layout look better.

[ThaneofFife]

First rule is dont try and cram track into every square foot you have.

 

Some things just look wrong when scaled down. 12 coaches will never look right on a layout with a 12ft length. For trains of that length you really need much more space if they are to look right. For most indoor layouts if we say this is the average size I would say between 8 and 9 coaches does the trick in representing a decent length of express passenger.

 

Avoid set track curves and small and medium rad points and utilise the widest possible path to create the widest/smoothest curves. Buy a box of flexi track and do some experimentation but the main caveat here is that the widest curves possible are not essential if you dont intend to allow any high speed running. If you moves are at very slow station speeds then this golden rule can probably be broken/bent slightly. Fast trains running around tight curves dont look very convincing and the overhang is more noticeable.

 

somebody up there mentioned having a station on the scenic break - ive seen this a quite a few shows lately and I have to say it works really well where space is at a premium. if your platform lengths are enough for say a loco and 3 coaches that should be more than enough to give the impression of a big station where long express trains stop at. at the train moves out your 8 or 9 coaches will not look out of place at all.

 

this also gives you the room for an improved station "throat".

[AngusDe]

I know it isn't really what you are looking for, but....

 

...here are a couple of old 12x8 ideas I had doodled in the past, back when I thought a 12x8 shed might be ok'd by the wife, lol!

 

 

 

Both, like most of my doodles, owe a lot to CJF for inspiration (showing my age I suppose!) and both are a mixture of PECO code 100 setrack and streamline to fit it all in.

 

Anyway, I hope they help or inspire someone.

 

Angus

[Sam*45110*SVR]

I just realised I hadn't put up the modded version so here it is, any further thoughts welcome.

 

I haven't really thought about the design of the shed yet hence the same two lines.

 

Sam.

[Sam*45110*SVR]

Here is the engine shed plan, not really sure if it's any good so comments welcome. Just had a thought about where to fit a goods yard, not a particularly big one just a place for bit of a break while while trains go by in the background ( or foreground ). Kind of a shunting puzzle inside a larger layout with loop for incoming trains.

[seahorse]

And now you want a goods yard - like you're not going to be busy enough changing points, running round trains, getting engines on and off shed and turning them.

And doing much the same for the fiddle yard.

Well you can always have wagons of loco coal ( where is your coaling stage?) - useful tip - use the centre road for non-passenger workings.

Also how about a trailing crossover on the right hand side to reverse anti-clockwise trains.

You might find it useful to bring the branch onto the nearest brown track to give access to the terminal without blocking the clockwise line ( and parallel train movements can look very impressive )

But plenty of scope for interesting operation.

[Sam*45110*SVR]

Hadn't really thought about a coaling stage . I guess the best spot would be on the top line along with some ash pits further down it. The coaling stage would probably be just a platform with a pair of poor young engine cleaners tasked with the job! Also this will mean many restocks by a nearby mineral wagon so lots of little shunting moves.

 

I like the idea of putting the branch onto the closest carriage siding as this would make working trains across from branch to main and vice versa much more interesting !

 

Maybe a goods ward is a bit too much to ask. Any thoughts about what to include scenically on the board on the far right ? Some of my thoughts include a small section of sea wall similar to dawlish or to replicate a small section of the lickey incline as it's close to my house !

[Sam*45110*SVR]

I've now added some buildings and scenery, the first few baseboards were made on the kitchen floor today !

[Sam*45110*SVR]

Two alternative engine shed designs, but which is best ? There's only one way to find out ......... post on rmweb !

[Kris]

The second one has the advantage that should there be a problem with the TT then the loco's on shed are not trapped. There should be a catch point between the shed and the platforms but you don't have the space for this. To get around that you could construct a cosmetic one.

[Sam*45110*SVR]

Do I need trap points on the two carriage sidings as well ? What about the middle road between the two terminus platforms ?

 

Actually I'm not happy with the way the branch joins to the carriage sidings so I've changed it to this.

[Kris]

You could get away with a single trap between the slip and the point that gives access to the mpd and sidings.

I'm on the answer for the middle road, but if it is only used for running round then I would have thought not however if you store stock in it then you would.

[Sam*45110*SVR]

It will be used to gain access to the MPD and the carriage sidings but possibly would be used to store the odd parcels van or a spare coach, for attachment to a later service, to the right of the 3 way point shown in the plan in post 20. If a trap was needed because of this which way would it derail stock as there are tracks both sides ?