Hattons Model Railways of Widnes (formerly Liverpool).

[Coryton]

Ordered loco and 2 coaches online 1:31PM yesterday (Sunday) - delivered here in West Wales (by Yodel!) 1:06PM today (Monday). Well done to both.

 

Good to hear from happy customers as well as disgruntled ones.

 

Out of curiosity, how well was it packed?

[Crantock]

I saw a slightly disparaging comment on Hattons financials buried in a Hornby non-announcement thread and, being me, looked them up on Companies house.  The accounts for June 2017 became available last month.

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05131251/filing-history

 

You have to say "well done".  Turnover up 12%, Profit 6.5% of turnover (eh wow).  Stock levels reduced, £1.2m bank loan cleared and £400k cash at bank.  Hornby must be crying gently. I note that they have written down inventory by some £970k to give a net of £3.3m so there is a lot of dud stuff kicking around.  The write off means they are carrying it below the cost to them.  So some stuff is probably being sold at a loss.  At £13.6m their turnover is not far short of Bachmann Europe's at £15m.  The only problem is that they are dependent, to a large extent, on the manufacturers continuing to push out the goods. 

 

Another couple of years growth story and Hornby stabilising themselves and I bet they sell up!

[Coryton]

I saw a slightly disparaging comment on Hattons financials buried in a Hornby non-announcement thread and, being me, looked them up on Companies house.  The accounts for June 2017 became available last month.

 

 

If you're referring to the comment I think you are, I read it as actually being disparaging to Hornby and praising Hattons, in a somewhat confusing way.

 

The only problem is that they are dependent, to a large extent, on the manufacturers continuing to push out the goods. 

 

Quite - and to a large extent this is comparing chalk and cheese. If Hornby's woes are in part due to pricing too low, then so long as retailer margins are high enough then it's not surprising if Hornby does badly and their retailers better.

 

If Hattons can greatly expand their manufacturing and still do so well, then it becomes a different story.

 

But it does show that the idea of Hattons buying Hornby out might not be as daft as it sounds.

 

Hattons-Hornby? Hornby-Hattons? Has quite a nice ring.

[classy52]

If you're referring to the comment I think you are, I read it as actually being disparaging to Hornby and praising Hattons, in a somewhat confusing way.

 

 

Quite - and to a large extent this is comparing chalk and cheese. If Hornby's woes are in part due to pricing too low, then so long as retailer margins are high enough then it's not surprising if Hornby does badly and their retailers better.

 

If Hattons can greatly expand their manufacturing and still do so well, then it becomes a different story.

 

But it does show that the idea of Hattons buying Hornby out might not be as daft as it sounds.

 

Hattons-Hornby? Hornby-Hattons? Has quite a nice ring.

 

Hornby by Hatton's?

[Dunsignalling]

I saw a slightly disparaging comment on Hattons financials buried in a Hornby non-announcement thread and, being me, looked them up on Companies house.  The accounts for June 2017 became available last month.

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05131251/filing-history

 

You have to say "well done".  Turnover up 12%, Profit 6.5% of turnover (eh wow).  Stock levels reduced, £1.2m bank loan cleared and £400k cash at bank.  Hornby must be crying gently. I note that they have written down inventory by some £970k to give a net of £3.3m so there is a lot of dud stuff kicking around.  The write off means they are carrying it below the cost to them.  So some stuff is probably being sold at a loss.  At £13.6m their turnover is not far short of Bachmann Europe's at £15m.  The only problem is that they are dependent, to a large extent, on the manufacturers continuing to push out the goods. 

 

Another couple of years growth story and Hornby stabilising themselves and I bet they sell up!

Presumably a factor in their decision to have models manufactured specifically for themselves, in order to reduce that dependency.

 

John

[davefromacrossthepond]

Presumably a factor in their decision to have models manufactured specifically for themselves, in order to reduce that dependency.

 

John

This is an interesting thought.  It is my understanding that in actuality neither Bachmann nor Hornby make their own models, the work is contracted out.  If individual retailers, be it Hattons, Rails, Kernow etc, start dealing with the factories directly, can they undercut B and H as they are cutting out a middleman?  It seems that Hattons two recent locomotives have impressed many. Is this a threat to the likes of Bachmann and Hornby?  Moreover, would smaller retailers who don't have the resources to deal directly with the factory be able to retail "Hattons" models and still remain profitable?  Interesting thoughts to ponder.

[woodenhead]

Bachmann don’t outsource, they use their parent company Kader.

 

Cutting out Bachmann or Hornby will cut out a middleman and allow a keen pricing structure like the 66 or the P class

Edited May 10, 2018 by woodenhead

[dpgibbons]

Were Hornby to go under one might well see Hattons acquiring stock or tooling. But Hornby plc is 4-5x larger than Hattons in sales and assets and a full scale merger would be very unlikely given the financial and management challenges and the obvious conflicts it would create with rival manufacturers and retailers. 

[ScRSG]

Sorry to have to say this, but I was in the area last week and decided to visit Hatton's place. Coming from the Ellesmere Port direction the satnav pointed us to the old Runcorn Bridge. Having prepaid the toll of £2, approached the bridge to find it.......closed! It was on Sunday, and maybe that's normal. It did mean a detour over the new bridge which added a few extra miles to Hatton's but we did finally arrive. Have to say the shop was a disappointment, very little on show and not a large range. Now I appreciate they're main thrust is mail order and I suspect if I was looking for something specific the staff could have looked it up on their computer and got it from the warehouse, but for someone who just wants to browse, it was a disappointment.

[Widnes Model Centre]

Sorry to have to say this, but I was in the area last week and decided to visit Hatton's place. Coming from the Ellesmere Port direction the satnav pointed us to the old Runcorn Bridge. Having prepaid the toll of £2, approached the bridge to find it.......closed! It was on Sunday, and maybe that's normal. It did mean a detour over the new bridge which added a few extra miles to Hatton's but we did finally arrive. Have to say the shop was a disappointment, very little on show and not a large range. Now I appreciate they're main thrust is mail order and I suspect if I was looking for something specific the staff could have looked it up on their computer and got it from the warehouse, but for someone who just wants to browse, it was a disappointment.

Hi,

The satnav does not show the new Mersey Gateway Bridge. The old Silver Jubilee Bridge will not re-open again until at least November 2018 (It will also be tolled). If coming from the M56 you need to follow signs for Liverpool/Widnes and than stay in the left hand lane around 1/4 mile from the M56.

[Nick G]

 

The satnav does not show the new Mersey Gateway Bridge. 

 

 

Depends on how up to date your maps are!

[Widnes Model Centre]

Depends on how up to date your maps are!

 

The OP's clearly wasn't, mine is. But then again I know where I am going as I live in the area. New bridge has knocked off about 40 minutes travelling time for us compared to the delays on the SJB.   

[Chamby]

This is an interesting thought.  It is my understanding that in actuality neither Bachmann nor Hornby make their own models, the work is contracted out.  If individual retailers, be it Hattons, Rails, Kernow etc, start dealing with the factories directly, can they undercut B and H as they are cutting out a middleman?  It seems that Hattons two recent locomotives have impressed many. Is this a threat to the likes of Bachmann and Hornby?  Moreover, would smaller retailers who don't have the resources to deal directly with the factory be able to retail "Hattons" models and still remain profitable?  Interesting thoughts to ponder.

Interesting line of thought... Hornby tried selling direct to the consumer and it has flopped - largely because you can buy everything cheaper through retailers. Hattons tried commissioning stuff directly and succeeded - largely because you can’t buy these items anywhere else. Kernow likewise.

 

At the moment we, the consumer, are benefiting both ways. I hope it continues, but that requires Hornby being able to sustain sales at a profit, whilst still allowing the middle-man to make a decent margin. I guess that explains the surge in prices recently.

 

Phil.

[Daddyman]

Have to say the shop was a disappointment, very little on show and not a large range. Now I appreciate they're main thrust is mail order and I suspect if I was looking for something specific the staff could have looked it up on their computer and got it from the warehouse, but for someone who just wants to browse, it was a disappointment.

Argh, I wish I'd read your post before trekking over to Hatton's from the M6 yesterday. What a waste of time! Possibly a hundred or fewer RTR models on display, quite a few of them not available yet; nothing else from their stock - no kits, no secondhand (well, some Triang junk), no modelling tools or equipment, no paint, nothing. 

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly - the staff could no doubt have found stuff, but I don't have every manufacturer's range memorised, and being able to browse would have triggered my memory and led to me buying stuff. As it was I left having spent nothing.

[bike2steam]

I see they must've overstocked the Hornby K1's, they're selling 'em off for 82 quid each - tempted !!??

[andyman7]

Woke up to find this in my inbox:

 

 

If they needed my consent, they were breaking the law in asking for it by 41 minutes........!

[Colin_McLeod]

Woke up to find this in my inbox:

 

IMAG0896.jpg

 

If they needed my consent, they were breaking the law in asking for it by 41 minutes........!

Which clause?

[andyman7]

Which clause?

That's the whole point - Hattons don't send me marketing emails, and they've only ever contacted me about orders I've made, so sending me an email that arrives at 00.40 on the date when new legislation takes effect saying that they need my consent to continue to contact me seems a misinterpretation of the law on their part!

Edited May 26, 2018 by andyman7

[Andy Y]

I received the emails much earlier so it could have been delayed in the ether or an automated system was batch-sending and took a time to get through what would have been tens of thousands of recipients. It's not worth trying to make an issue of.

[40F]

That's the whole point - Hattons don't send me marketing emails, and they've only ever contacted me about orders I've made, so sending me an email that arrives at 00.40 on the date when new legislation takes effect saying that they need my consent to continue to contact me seems a misinterpretation of the law on their part!

 

 

What`s the big deal ?????????????????????????????????????

[Jonboy]

The only emails I get from hattons are automated product alerts, to which I normally think “why would I have signed up for an alert on that product?”

 

Not sure if its a sign I shouldn’t drink and sign up, or manufactures changing model numbers...

[sandwich station]

That's the whole point - Hattons don't send me marketing emails, and they've only ever contacted me about orders I've made, so sending me an email that arrives at 00.40 on the date when new legislation takes effect saying that they need my consent to continue to contact me seems a misinterpretation of the law on their part!

 

If it's that much of an issue, don't give them consent.

[John Tomlinson]

Sorry to have to say this, but I was in the area last week and decided to visit Hatton's place. Coming from the Ellesmere Port direction the satnav pointed us to the old Runcorn Bridge. Having prepaid the toll of £2, approached the bridge to find it.......closed! It was on Sunday, and maybe that's normal. It did mean a detour over the new bridge which added a few extra miles to Hatton's but we did finally arrive. Have to say the shop was a disappointment, very little on show and not a large range. Now I appreciate they're main thrust is mail order and I suspect if I was looking for something specific the staff could have looked it up on their computer and got it from the warehouse, but for someone who just wants to browse, it was a disappointment.

 

Whatever you do in future, don't make my mistake of driving over the new bridge and thinking it's free because there's no-one in a box collecting money.

 

I did this in the first week it was open, and three weeks later received a Penalty Notice from Halton Council, for £20 plus the original £2. I hadn't realised that as a casual user you need to go on line to pay the toll within 24 hours of using the bridge. Duh!!!

 

John.

Edited May 26, 2018 by John Tomlinson

[johnd]

Whatever you do in future, don't make my mistake of driving over the new bridge and thinking it's free because there's no-one in a box collecting money.

 

I did this in the first week it was open, and three weeks later received a Penalty Notice from Halton Council, for £20 plus the original £2. I hadn't realised that as a casual user you need to go on line to pay the toll within 24 hours of using the bridge. Duh!!!

 

John.

Now if you know your going to an area that has NO internet availability or even mobile phone network for the next 24 hours or so ( camping proper style ) how on earth can you avoid the penalty charge.

 

Is it possible to pay in advance ? If you know you are going to use the bridge and the old bridge when they have finished playing with it.

 

Just curious.

[John Tomlinson]

Now if you know your going to an area that has NO internet availability or even mobile phone network for the next 24 hours or so ( camping proper style ) how on earth can you avoid the penalty charge.

 

Is it possible to pay in advance ? If you know you are going to use the bridge and the old bridge when they have finished playing with it.

 

Just curious.

 

I'm afraid I don't know, I don't live around there and have just had the one experience!

 

Perhaps a local person can help?

 

John.