Hattons Model Railways of Widnes (formerly Liverpool).

[woodenhead]

I am surprised that Hattons is offering Bachmann's 31-921 H2 Atlantic for £139 in Hattons' 12 deals of Christmas. I thought Hattons had sold out of its pre-order for this model.

 

I don't know why Hattons needs to discount this model as my nearest model railway shop has sold out of this model at the full price and it has only been out for a few weeks.

 

It looks like they have had a fresh supply of this model from Bachmann.

They came into stock on the 10th October - it is the Southern and LBCSR that are sold out on pre-order.

[Steamport Southport]

It would be a Christmas present just to be able to pop in to Hatton's! ( I live in Canada...) or is it Hattons?

 

I think both terms are usable. They use an apostrophe on the logo, but there have been more than one person called Hatton. So it could be plural.

 

I would also like to pop in to Hatton's. I used to on a regular basis. But it's now on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhere that is virtually inaccessible except if you have your own transport. Funny thing is I'm only about two and a half miles away according to Google Maps. But I don't exactly want to be ran over...

 

 

It really was a proper little shop when it was on Smithdown Road. I doubt you will see many shops like that again unfortunately. Think Arkwright's off Open All Hours.

 

 

 

Jason

[Oldddudders]

I was in another model shop today, and while the chap was unwilling to spill any beans about the current dispute, he did smile at the extra business it is generating for him and across the rest of the model retail trade.

[Gwiwer]

It would be a Christmas present just to be able to pop in to Hatton's! ( I live in Canada...) or is it Hattons?

Gramatically “Hatton’s” is correct. The surname is Hatton and it is the shop (or business these days) run by the Hatton family. In older English that would be rendered “Hattones” in the possessive case but now we replace the e with an apostrophe indicating an abbreviation.

 

Hattons is the plural of Hatton so there are many Hattons at Hatton’s. Were the surname “Hattons” then the possessive would be Hattons’ with a final apostrophe again replacing an e but in a different position.

 

And now back to the storyline.

[Stevelewis]

 

 

It really was a proper little shop when it was on Smithdown Road. I doubt you will see many shops like that again unfortunately. Think Arkwright's off Open All Hours.

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 I  used  to  visit  Hattons  frequently,  ( The  original Smithdown Road  Grotto of Delights)  I was  particularly  fortunate  that  my  Sales  Territory  included  Liverpool  as  well as  North Wales  and  the  I O M plenty of  railway interest  and  no on board  trackers in  those  days  so  the  boss did not  know  what  was  going  on!

 

I used  to  have  many conversations  with  Norman  Hatton,  usually  about  7mm,  he  was  a  very  knowledgable person,  my big  regret  was  not  buying  enough Wrenn locos  when  he  was  clearing  them,  Especially  the Streamlined  Coronation class  @£25 each!,  Mind  you I suppose  £25 was worth much more in  those  days,  

[royaloak]

It hurts Bachmann in a more subtle, and more future way.  It damages the brand - the customer ordered Bachmann product through an authorized Bachmann retailer and Bachmann then refused to provide said retailer with the product, depriving the customer from the ability to purchase the item.

Or a retailer accepts 200 pre-orders but is only allocated 150 models, who is at fault? 

 

Remember it isnt only limited editions which are produced in limited numbers these days.

[Robin Brasher]

Hatton's Wrenn prices shot up overnight when Wrenn stopped producing them. Hatton's seemed to be very much aware of the state of the model railway market as they still are.

[melmerby]

It would be a Christmas present just to be able to pop in to Hatton's! ( I live in Canada...) or is it Hattons?

From Hatton's own website:

 

 

 

It always seems to be written (correctly) as "Hatton's"

 

Keith

[JSpencer]

'POP!!!' indeed!

 

The Ts + Cs are explicit, although - it must be pointed out - this is all supposition, of course!

 

Despite the impact it's obviously had, and having, I think it's hard not to feel some (a lot of) sympathy for the blue team, in the circumstances.  These terms are signed up to for a very good reason, and if there's a substantive breach, then expect consequences.  This is business, and the two parties aren't playing at it - this is their lifeblood, not a hobby. 

 

 

It would be easy to get around. You create a second comapny called Hattons Originals who do the wholesaling.. Hattons themwelves won't breach any Ts & Cs.

[Steamport Southport]

Hatton's Wrenn prices shot up overnight when Wrenn stopped producing them. Hatton's seemed to be very much aware of the state of the model railway market as they still are.

 

When I was a kid I always wondered why the better quality models by Mainline and Airfix were cheaper than the rubbish old tat in the display cases. 

 

That awful Shell liveried R1 cost a fortune. It still seems to attract high prices.

 

https://wrennmodelrailways.com/wrenn-locomotives/class-r1-0-6-0t/wrenn-shell-silver-class-r1-tank-0-6-0t-locomotive-model-w2203.html

 

 

 

Jason

[mvrnut]

When I comes to Hatton's receiving stock from Bachmann I pre-ordered just over five years ago, on 03/09/2013 to be exact, Bachmann 31-920 Class H2 Atlantic "South Foreland" in SR olive green. A few weeks after other retailers had already been selling these, I enquired at Hatton's as to where the loco I had on pre-order was. Their reply was that they had not yet received stock,

  I have again enquired about my pre-order a couple of days ago and again was told they still have not received stock of this loco.

  I am losing faith in Hatton's sad to say.

 

Cheers.

   Chris

[Chamby]

When I comes to Hatton's receiving stock from Bachmann I pre-ordered just over five years ago, on 03/09/2013 to be exact, Bachmann 31-920 Class H2 Atlantic "South Foreland" in SR olive green. A few weeks after other retailers had already been selling these, I enquired at Hatton's as to where the loco I had on pre-order was. Their reply was that they had not yet received stock,

  I have again enquired about my pre-order a couple of days ago and again was told they still have not received stock of this loco.

  I am losing faith in Hatton's sad to say.

 

Cheers.

   Chris

Hattons will fully understand if you cancel your pre-order on this occasion, given their inability to supply which is outside of your control. Other retailers have good stocks, and the Antipodeans on this forum speak highly of Kernow’s overseas delivery (for example).

[Stevelewis]

When I comes to Hatton's receiving stock from Bachmann I pre-ordered just over five years ago, on 03/09/2013 to be exact, Bachmann 31-920 Class H2 Atlantic "South Foreland" in SR olive green. A few weeks after other retailers had already been selling these, I enquired at Hatton's as to where the loco I had on pre-order was. Their reply was that they had not yet received stock,

  I have again enquired about my pre-order a couple of days ago and again was told they still have not received stock of this loco.

  I am losing faith in Hatton's sad to say.

 

Cheers.

   Chris

 

South Foreland  in  stock  at  Arcadia  Rail as  of  today  he does  export, speak to  TIM   Arcadiarail Shaw  Oldham UK

[adb968008]

I was in another model shop today, and while the chap was unwilling to spill any beans about the current dispute, he did smile at the extra business it is generating for him and across the rest of the model retail trade.

And there you go.

 

The only loser I can see here is Hattons.

Theres is very little competition in UK OO rtr models.

If you want a superdetail 37/47.. its Bachmann.

If you want a superdetail 31/50.. its Hornby.

Of course the class 66 could be a rare exception to the market, the class 25 and 55 change that dynamic too, but 3 models dont make a market alone, when theres hundreds of such prototype classes out there without duplication.

 

As a consumer your choice to buy was skewed : those who want to handle their product and were happy to pay more chose their local retailer. Those who are price sensitive chose from the few discounters out there.

 

The restrictions on discounting restricts the options for the price sensitive.. they buy or they dont, but the option of whom from is limited.

 

But if Hattons dont have stock, and you want one.. then you have no choice but to go elsewhere, unless your prepared to stay the course and see what happens.

 

Should this matter be resolved:

I dont see loss for Bachmann, they make it they sell it, to whichever retailer gets it first.

For Hattons.. the good stuff maybe gone to competitors, all thats left is the slower selling stock.

 

I too know a shop thats having a happy christmas right now.

 

The risk is, eliminating discounting, but expecting price sensitive types to willingingly accept and pay more... price sensitive types are that way for a reason.. they will adapt by being savvy.. such as playing the waiting game or just not buy at all and pass as the interest wanes over time, this dispute could have a longer term bite to us consumers, even if this dispute is not about price as Hattons serves a price sensitive consumer.

 

Sadly if this is all heading down to lawyers, it could be a long journey before its resolved.

Edited December 12, 2018 by adb968008

[Legend]

It always amazes me in model railways that people accept paying more and in some cases positively encourage it . In what other market is this true? Do we all go to the local garage who has petrol 10p a litre more expensive than Tescos or do we go to the cheapest place?  Its amazing that people will pay £20 more for a model , yet shop round to get 5p off a can of beans.

[woodenhead]

It always amazes me in model railways that people accept paying more and in some cases positively encourage it . In what other market is this true? Do we all go to the local garage who has petrol 10p a litre more expensive than Tescos or do we go to the cheapest place?  Its amazing that people will pay £20 more for a model , yet shop round to get 5p off a can of beans.

I'm not sure it helps when manufacture is from a monopoly - in this case the Peoples Republic of China - it is they who stipulated the rising cost of employees which resulted in the larger price hikes.

 

However, as well as that model quality has risen, complexity has risen and the market size has fallen so that too makes for more expensive models.

 

For those of us who wish to be price sensitive, then there is the option of second hand models or waiting for sales in the hope your desired model is in it - but don't be disappointed if it isn't that's the risk when playing the game.

[Wheatley]

In what other market is this true?

 

Most markets for low volume/high production cost unnecessary trinkets (largely) dependant on a handful of manufacturers and independant retailers I expect. If UK model railways had a turnover of £60bn a year (petrol) or £150bn a year (supermarkets) we'd all be shopping around and no-one would be the slightest bit concerned that one retailer wasn't stocking one product range (for whatever reason).  

['CHARD]

It always amazes me in model railways that people accept paying more and in some cases positively encourage it . In what other market is this true? Do we all go to the local garage who has petrol 10p a litre more expensive than Tescos or do we go to the cheapest place?  Its amazing that people will pay £20 more for a model , yet shop round to get 5p off a can of beans.

 

I'm not sure it helps when manufacture is from a monopoly - in this case the Peoples Republic of China - it is they who stipulated the rising cost of employees which resulted in the larger price hikes.

 

However, as well as that model quality has risen, complexity has risen and the market size has fallen so that too makes for more expensive models.

 

For those of us who wish to be price sensitive, then there is the option of second hand models or waiting for sales in the hope your desired model is in it - but don't be disappointed if it isn't that's the risk when playing the game.

 

 

Most markets for low volume/high production cost unnecessary trinkets (largely) dependant on a handful of manufacturers and independant retailers I expect. If UK model railways had a turnover of £60bn a year (petrol) or £150bn a year (supermarkets) we'd all be shopping around and no-one would be the slightest bit concerned that one retailer wasn't stocking one product range (for whatever reason).  

 

These two responses have missed the point I think.  Legend wasn't talking about rising prices in general, but shopping around in the now.

[Ian Hargrave]

It always amazes me in model railways that people accept paying more and in some cases positively encourage it . In what other market is this true? Do we all go to the local garage who has petrol 10p a litre more expensive than Tescos or do we go to the cheapest place?  Its amazing that people will pay £20 more for a model , yet shop round to get 5p off a can of beans.

There’s a reason and sound motivation for that. Some forum members want actively to encourage local model retailers.....where they still exist. Don’t forget this is still Bachmann’s policy too and as has been posted here,many smaller shops are making the proverbial hay while the sun shines.I am not fortunate in that respect.Thus it encourages me to be ( to a certain extent ) price sensitive.And I am no Tesco shopper....

[Legend]

These two responses have missed the point I think.  Legend wasn't talking about rising prices in general, but shopping around in the now.

 

Indeed Chard, thanks for that. It wasn't a comment about rising prices , whether you believe the reasons or not, but about why we all delight in getting a bargain but  not in model railways . 

[woodenhead]

Indeed Chard, thanks for that. It wasn't a comment about rising prices , whether you believe the reasons or not, but about why we all delight in getting a bargain but  not in model railways . 

My apologies.

[Wheatley]

Indeed Chard, thanks for that. It wasn't a comment about rising prices , whether you believe the reasons or not, but about why we all delight in getting a bargain but  not in model railways . 

 

I don't think I've missed the point. My bargain (on something I don't actually need) is an independant retailer's profit margin, regardless of whether it costs more everywhere this year than it did last. "Delighting in getting a bargain" is why there are so few model shops left.  

[Pandora]

Hattons are investing in manufacturing, O gauge in particular the A4 and A3,  also in OO the class 66,  perhaps Hattons have prioritised those projects over  Bachmann stock etc

Edited December 12, 2018 by Pandora

['CHARD]

Hattons are investing in manufacturing, O gauge in particular the A4 and A3,  also in OO the class 66,  perhaps they have chosen to divert funds  towards those projects and not Bachmann stock etc

 

I think I could do with some of those drugs if you've any spare 

[Oldddudders]

Hattons are investing in manufacturing, O gauge in particular the A4 and A3,  also in OO the class 66,  perhaps they have chosen to divert funds  towards those projects and not Bachmann stock etc

But their return on some of those projects is in the future. Selling Bachmann products at a mark-up to a waiting market now is much better for cash-flow. Unlikely to be the reason for the present impasse.