Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

This is a lovely model, rather different from the usual fare and very atmospheric... the sort of layout I could linger at, at an exhibition. Is the layout still incomplete though? It does leave me a little concerned about animal welfare. A gate or stile on the footpath would help prevent the sheep from wandering onto the railway line and coming into harms way, and similarly the chickens would seem to be free to wander on the road or railway, if they were to go exploring. Or is it just my application of modern values, inappropriate in the historical context?

 

Funny what your mind fixes on, when presented with such modelling excellence!

 

Phil

Phil,

 

The layout is still very much under construction, with many areas to be fully-completed. Paul is also aware there's much in the way of weathering to be done. That said, it does have an air of 'realism', and I think in those much earlier times (1925) 'modern values' were very different from what they are today.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[jwealleans]

...my progress so far on my 'holiday project' that I showed you the etches of on Sunday.

 

She lets you bring a soldering iron on holiday? Definitely a keeper.

[Tony Wright]

Last week, I dropped Jesse Sim off at Grantham Station in readiness for his catching a train to York. 

 

Since it's over 70 years since the original LNER ceased to exist (as the owner) at Gantham, how nice to see it reappearing in 2018? 

 

 

Except it's not really much more than a slightly crumpled, self-adhesive sticker for a branding. Oh for apple green as well!

 

 

 

With a few minutes of spare time remaining, I grabbed a shot of this Class 90 leaving Grantham Station. Unlike when there were blue enamel signs at this location, the running-in boards are on both main platforms, at both ends. An 'interesting' shot?

 

 

Of course, my mind's eye went back to almost 60 years ago, when the scene looking south from Grantham Station was very different. There were no trainspotters present last week (unless I qualify as one!). A much more interesting shot, don't you think?

 

 

Were I still shooting on film, I certainly wouldn't have wasted an exposure on this 'abomination'. Can anyone think of a less-appropriate livery for a train? Was someone paid to come up with this? My opinion, of course. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Tony Wright

[APOLLO]

I'll raise you this Tony. What a horrible looking loco and livery.

 

 

With a little more thought at the design stage this could have been a nice looking loco. Oval buffers, neater & larger drivers side window, front end needs streamlining a bit. The sides / grilles / bogies are functional and not a lot can be done here. The livery is just downright childish. Trainy Mc Trainface !!!! Cut the spots Scotts !!!.

 

Anyway, here is my favorite diesel of all time - a really beautiful design.

 

 

 

Brit15

[Clearwater]

A recent shot (Aviemore). Semaphore signals, loco hauled stock and I don't think the livery is too bad albeit it doesn't complement the coaches.

 

David

 

[Atso]

I can't say I'm impressed with those liveries Tony so I'll share a bit of how I spent my day travelling in some teak coaches.

 

 

By complete coincidence, I later discovered that the gentleman leaning out of the coach in front was none other than Jesse and we enjoyed a chat at Grosmont and I showed him where the bookshop selling copies of Yeadon's is (sorry Jesse!).

 

Perhaps a more appropriate livery is below (but still not apple green).

 

[jrg1]

Last week, I dropped Jesse Sim off at Grantham Station in readiness for his catching a train to York. 

 

Since it's over 70 years since the original LNER ceased to exist (as the owner) at Gantham, how nice to see it reappearing in 2018? 

 

LNER 02.jpg

 

Except it's not really much more than a slightly crumpled, self-adhesive sticker for a branding. Oh for apple green as well!

 

 90 036 at Grantham, August '18.jpg

 

With a few minutes of spare time remaining, I grabbed a shot of this Class 90 leaving Grantham Station. Unlike when there were blue enamel signs at this location, the running-in boards are on both main platforms, at both ends. An 'interesting' shot?

 

A1 60158 Grantham 21.08.60.jpg

 

Of course, my mind's eye went back to almost 60 years ago, when the scene looking south from Grantham Station was very different. There were no trainspotters present last week (unless I qualify as one!). A much more interesting shot, don't you think?

 

Hull Trains.jpg

 

Were I still shooting on film, I certainly wouldn't have wasted an exposure on this 'abomination'. Can anyone think of a less-appropriate livery for a train? Was someone paid to come up with this? My opinion, of course. 

These are not carefully designed company liveries, they are paint jobs, and horrible, cheap and inappropriate.  The steam shot of Grantham is far more interesting, and shows how the modern railway has been stripped to its bare essentials-dull, boring and unedifying.  The Grantham of steam days was fascinating-a business-like air, busy, crowded and something happening all the time.  Today it is almost like waiting at an enlarged bus stop.

[APOLLO]

The American Railroad companies knew how to design a company livery !!

 

 

These and many, many more. Even today there are some nice livery's around in the USA (though the locos are plug ugly !!)

 

Brit15

[Jesse Sim]

I can't say I'm impressed with those liveries Tony so I'll share a bit of how I spent my day travelling in some teak coaches.

image.jpg

By complete coincidence, I later discovered that the gentleman leaning out of the coach in front was none other than Jesse and we enjoyed a chat at Grosmont and I showed him where the bookshop selling copies of Yeadon's is (sorry Jesse!).

Perhaps a more appropriate livery is below (but still not apple green).

image.jpg

That was a spot and a half mate, I am even in the photo too.

Lovely to see you, well meet you really, thanks for tip on those Yeardons another three for the shelf at home...well I sent home about 6 on Monday!!

[Jesse Sim]

Last week, I dropped Jesse Sim off at Grantham Station in readiness for his catching a train to York. 

 

Since it's over 70 years since the original LNER ceased to exist (as the owner) at Gantham, how nice to see it reappearing in 2018? 

 

LNER 02.jpg

 

Except it's not really much more than a slightly crumpled, self-adhesive sticker for a branding. Oh for apple green as well!

 

 90 036 at Grantham, August '18.jpg

 

With a few minutes of spare time remaining, I grabbed a shot of this Class 90 leaving Grantham Station. Unlike when there were blue enamel signs at this location, the running-in boards are on both main platforms, at both ends. An 'interesting' shot?

 

A1 60158 Grantham 21.08.60.jpg

 

Of course, my mind's eye went back to almost 60 years ago, when the scene looking south from Grantham Station was very different. There were no trainspotters present last week (unless I qualify as one!). A much more interesting shot, don't you think?

 

Hull Trains.jpg

 

Were I still shooting on film, I certainly wouldn't have wasted an exposure on this 'abomination'. Can anyone think of a less-appropriate livery for a train? Was someone paid to come up with this? My opinion, of course.

 

 

Thank you ever so much Tony and of course Mo for another splendid week of hospitality. It was such a great weekend, good to see everyone again and I can’t wait for September. My DCC layout won’t know what’s hit it!

[Clive Mortimore]

Last week, I dropped Jesse Sim off at Grantham Station in readiness for his catching a train to York. 

 

Since it's over 70 years since the original LNER ceased to exist (as the owner) at Gantham, how nice to see it reappearing in 2018? 

 

LNER 02.jpg

 

Except it's not really much more than a slightly crumpled, self-adhesive sticker for a branding. Oh for apple green as well!

 

 90 036 at Grantham, August '18.jpg

 

With a few minutes of spare time remaining, I grabbed a shot of this Class 90 leaving Grantham Station. Unlike when there were blue enamel signs at this location, the running-in boards are on both main platforms, at both ends. An 'interesting' shot?

 

A1 60158 Grantham 21.08.60.jpg

 

Of course, my mind's eye went back to almost 60 years ago, when the scene looking south from Grantham Station was very different. There were no trainspotters present last week (unless I qualify as one!). A much more interesting shot, don't you think?

 

Hull Trains.jpg

 

Were I still shooting on film, I certainly wouldn't have wasted an exposure on this 'abomination'. Can anyone think of a less-appropriate livery for a train? Was someone paid to come up with this? My opinion, of course. 

Hello Tony

 

I am not a fan of many of the more modern liveries but here is something to think about.

 

1950s and 1960s dull sober traditional liveries and dirty trains, loss of passengers.

2000s and 2010s glaring bright liveries and cleaner trains, too many more passengers.

 

So are we historical modellers looking at nostalgia with our rose tinted glasses?

 

Says Clive , who thinks crimson lake is the only livery properly designed steam locos should be painted in and diesels should be in BR green not maroon or any other colour.

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony

 

I am not a fan of many of the more modern liveries but here is something to think about.

 

1950s and 1960s dull sober traditional liveries and dirty trains, loss of passengers.

2000s and 2010s glaring bright liveries and cleaner trains, too many more passengers.

 

So are we historical modellers looking at nostalgia with our rose tinted glasses?

 

Says Clive , who thinks crimson lake is the only livery properly designed steam locos should be painted in and diesels should be in BR green not maroon or any other colour.

I think you're dead right, Clive,

 

However, are you suggesting that there are more passengers travelling by train today because of these horrid liveries? 

 

My personal view is that there was no better-looking livery for the 'modern' ECML sets than the splendid GNER blue/red. It complemented the objects to which it was applied and, though strikingly-modern, had a direct link with the line's past - 'The Route of the Flying Scotsman'. Sadly, the parent company failed and the livery was lost, to be replaced by dirty-looking silver and eventually a ghastly squiggle of a name. At least 'LNER' is a more apposite name, but just putting 'sticking plaster' on the sides doesn't seem very appropriate or distinguished to me.

 

 

The striking Eurostars looked good in GNER blue/red.

 

 

In my view, better than in their original colour scheme. 

 

 

This livery had 'style' in my view. Its colour scheme followed the form to which it was applied. 

 

 

Is this a 'Voyager'? It's what the original Hull Trains used to look like - 'stylish', compared to what the colour scheme looks like now. 

 

 

Of course, even though it was being towed, that 'original' Deltic livery on the great EE Type 5s was never surpassed in my view. 

 

 

 

That said, compared with the child-like daubings applied to today's trains, even plain rail blue had a dignity, especially when kept clean. 

 

I think what astonishes me, looking at these images, taken since we've lived in this (lovely) part of the world, is how 'historic' these pictures are. LB's goods shed has long-gone, and, though they still fizz by at high speed, the 91s are not long for this line. And, what happened to the Eurostars? 

 

Is this a touch of nostalgia here? 

 

Nostalgia or not, nothing seen above beats this! 

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

I'll raise you this Tony. What a horrible looking loco and livery.

 

 

With a little more thought at the design stage this could have been a nice looking loco. Oval buffers, neater & larger drivers side window, front end needs streamlining a bit. The sides / grilles / bogies are functional and not a lot can be done here. The livery is just downright childish. Trainy Mc Trainface !!!! Cut the spots Scotts !!!.

 

Anyway, here is my favorite diesel of all time - a really beautiful design.

 

 

 

Brit15

With regard to the Scotrail diesel, it looks just as bad in model form in my view.........................

 

 

I think KESTREL looks very fine indeed. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[jamie92208]

Is this a touch of nostalgia here? 

 

Nostalgia or not, nothing seen above beats this! 

 

6233 Bytham 6 10 07 01.jpg

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

I couldn't agree more Tony, now how about transforming LB into an LMS main line for a day.....

 

Jamie

[Clive Mortimore]

Hello Tony

 

I am not suggesting the multi-coloured liveries of today entice more people on the trains but bright optimistic branding of the product helps with the traveling experience.  

 

And what a boost to the model railway manufacturers, how many class 68s are there, how many liveries have they carried in their sort carers, how many models have Dapol sold to the same "modern image " modeller?

[johndon]

With regard to the Scotrail diesel, it looks just as bad in model form in my view.........................

 

 

Tony, if you don't like the Scotrail livery, you're going to love the 68 in the new Trans Pennine Livery...

 

http://railcolornews.com/2017/09/11/uk-this-is-the-first-class-68-locomotive-in-the-colors-of-transpennine-express/

 

Personally, I think that the 68 is by far the best looking of the 'modern' diesel locomotives.

 

Even as a confirmed BR Blue modeller, I have to agree that nothing looked better on the Deltics than the two tone green.

 

John

Edited August 22, 2018 by johndon

[Tony Wright]

Tony, if you don't like the Scotrail livery, you're going to love the 68 in the new Trans Pennine Livery...

 

http://railcolornews.com/2017/09/11/uk-this-is-the-first-class-68-locomotive-in-the-colors-of-transpennine-express/

 

Personally, I think that the 68 is by far the best looking of the 'modern' diesel locomotives.

 

Even as a confirmed BR Blue modeller, I have to agree that nothing looked better on the Deltics than the two tone green.

 

John

Many thanks, John,

 

But, Oh Dear!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Guest]

That is a seriously ugly locomotive. I can only think of one livery that would look good on it. That of a paper bag!

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony

 

I am not suggesting the multi-coloured liveries of today entice more people on the trains but bright optimistic branding of the product helps with the traveling experience.  

 

And what a boost to the model railway manufacturers, how many class 68s are there, how many liveries have they carried in their sort carers, how many models have Dapol sold to the same "modern image " modeller?

Thanks Clive,

 

But I'm not sure that all modern liveries are 'bright and optimistic'. 

 

Returning to the new LNER now running on the ECML; I'm reminded of a picture of MALLARD, taken at Grantham, in extremely shabby 1946 condition, where her number, '22', had just been stencilled on to he cabsides. Obviously, there were not enough transfers, nor those to apply them, so her new number had to do as it was. Fortunately, in time, her appearance improved (eventually to her 'ultimate', in my view, BR lined green). 

 

I'm not suggesting that the LNER self-adhesive vinyl now being applied to the ECML sets is as bad as the state of No. 22 in 1946, but it does appear very 'make-do-&-mend'. At close-quarters, you can see it bubbling and lifting. Is this because of the 'speed' imperative, where the zeal to expunge the horrid squiggle is being fully-applied? If that's the case, I'm glad, but I hope something more dignified will eventually appear. 

 

I admit to being a reactionary old git, but where have style and craftsmanship gone in the application of today's railway liveries? Yesterday, I took more photographs for Geoff Haynes' forthcoming book on painting models. He lined a MR six-wheeled coach as part of the picture-taking process. What a gorgeous colour combination - each panel lined in gold/black, fully-following the form on to which it was applied. No swoops, sparkles, squiggles or 'camouflage' effect. Are some of our modern trains expected to go to war? If so, I think they'll do well - deceiving the enemy as to what class of locomotive it is - just as did warships in their 'dazzle' guise. 

 

Thank goodness for model railways! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

That is a seriously ugly locomotive. I can only think of one livery that would look good on it. That of a paper bag!

Or it could, as a model, be placed in a cake box - with the lid closed! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Tony Wright

[APOLLO]

Occasionally, I wish I was born 70 odd years earlier !!

 

 

 

Brit15

[Bucoops]

I'm assuming that the low-cost re-brand to the modern day LNER is because it's a taxpayer owned company and so wastage of money rebranding properly until a unit is due for repaint.

[Lecorbusier]

 

 

 

I admit to being a reactionary old git, but where have style and craftsmanship gone in the application of today's railway liveries? Yesterday, I took more photographs for Geoff Haynes' forthcoming book on painting models. He lined a MR six-wheeled coach as part of the picture-taking process. What a gorgeous colour combination - each panel lined in gold/black, fully-following the form on to which it was applied. No swoops, sparkles, squiggles or 'camouflage' effect. Are some of our modern trains expected to go to war? If so, I think they'll do well - deceiving the enemy as to what class of locomotive it is - just as did warships in their 'dazzle' guise. 

 

As an observation .... from a designers perspective (architect) -

 

I wonder if we are not increasingly a victim of a perfect storm. CAD design rather than draftsmanship leads to product libraries of symbols which are then simply combined ... so everything becomes the same as we tend to be combiners rather than designers. Litigation drives all designers towards products with liabilities transferred to the manufacturer rather than creative design ... and these products are designed in isolation rather than as a part of a whole. Requirement for speed leads to repetition of known objects rather than development of new. Thus for 95% the instinct is to reach for the catalogue and combine rather than innovate and design.

 

From a graphic standpoint, that then leads to a dislocate between the object design and the graphics ... there is no integrity and no coherent whole. At the same time graphics is one of the few areas of design where flights of fancy are possible without major repercussion ... so a discipline that in the past was restrained by other areas of design has now a tendency towards the shocking and anarchic.

 

Just a personal perspective. In my own discipline you will see building after building which is simply a combination of products and components - irrespective of budget ...and the blandness and repetition is there for all to see. Design when lauded appears to be all about ability to shock or disorient and ideas of integrity and good manners are few and far between.

 

I suppose that makes me a grumpy (relatively old) and opinionated git as well. 

 

In the old days practically everything was designed and then manufactured under one roof by Crewe or Swindon etc. As such the designers could actually design and the  skill of the craftsman set the bar. Such skills are often now only kept alive by the heritage industry - this is true across many disciplines not just the railways. For instance how many would think of designing and having built special tables and chairs for a project (as we recently did for an Oxford College library) rather than reaching for a catalogue?

Edited August 22, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[Colin_McLeod]

With some of these modern liveries there's enough material here for a thread entitled: "When the real thing looks like a toy".

[Bucoops]

Not really related, but as we're talking about the modern railway, my parents took my daughter to the beach yesterday at Frinton, and came back on one of Greater Anglia's new trains - 

 

"We are on one of the brand new trains. Very bright and clean and spacious! X Used the toilet OK but it smelled of urine - possibly not their fault? It is DREADFULLY rocky. Walking to and from loo we were thrown from side to side as the seats are so wide apart we couldn't hold on. Had to throw ourselves across the gaps".

 

Well thought out then! I assume they have tried to make them user friendly for those in a wheelchair? But have made it so able bodied, albeit of a certain age, to end up needing a wheelchair afterwards!

[Enterprisingwestern]

Re the livery "designers"

I don't understand why the less is more view of liveries/branding isn't taught any more, it seems the current set of whizz kids feel the need to use every (clashing) colour and every type of shape available on one application, the classic being the Scotrail cross made from circles.

I'm convinced it's all a joke being played out on mug punters by well qualified idiots trying to outdo each other, imagine the conversation about the Northern class 68 as the inventor and his cronies laugh at what they've got away with.

 

Mike.