Westerham, + Weald. Tarmac surface for the platform

[Fishplate]

I've dug another hole for myself, this time a turntable is going in it. But as usual with modelling a prototype not much information is available, I have one photo of the turntable at Ewer street and another one that looks similar at Portsmouth. The problem is how did this type of turntable work, did the beams that it seems to sit on rotate with the turntable and railings, or was some other system used. ie the beams and railings remain stationary and just the platform rotates. Please any advice and help would be most helpful. all the best (in a spin) Adrian.    

 

Hi Adrian,

 

The type of turntable you have in this picture was originally planked across the full deck, which was supported by the "outriggers" you can see in your photo. This extra planking was removed in later years (presumably to allow easier access for maintenance). The railings were added on the circumference and the edge of the remaining deck, no doubt for safety reasons. I've previously seen a picture of a fully planked one at Waterloo, if I recall correctly, but can't find it on the internet this morning.

 

There is a photo of several staff turning a loco by hand at Faversham MPD. One is using the railings to push, but doesn't appear to be trying as hard as the others. I guess they weren't designed for that. This photo also also gives a good view into the well : See part way down on link here: http://www.aslef-favershambranch.co.uk/new%20gallery.html

 

As usual, there is a rail running around the turntable well. The deck where the locomotive sits on the rails is supported by wheels on this rail. The outriggers also had wheels at intervals to support these, as you can see on the above link and the example on link here :    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stewarts_Lane_engine_shed_(34).jpg

 

Quite a lot of them on the Southern/ former SE/ LCDR were 50ft tables. I am debating whether to create a 50ft one for my future layout of Faversham MPD, or just go with the Peco 70ft and enhance with the outriggers. The additional 20ft (80mm) sounds a lot but it does allow you to turn one of Mr Bullieds rather nice Pacific locos of which I am fortunate to own a couple (in OO I hasten to add!).

 

But for you maybe a "Hint Hint/ good excuse" for that part of your layout that is close to main line terminii in London ;-)

 

Hope this helps. Keep us all posted on your excellent modelling.

 

Best Regards

 

John

[westerhamstation]

Hi John, many thanks for your help, those pictures are really useful and have given me much of the detail that I need. It doesn't matter how long you spend looking for information or pictures and not finding it, someone on RMweb can always provide it for you or point you in the right direction. I did consider the Peco Turntable also the Dapol model, for I am reluctant to spend £45 on the Peco model (for I am read Mrs W Station) so out with tools and I will start to make my own.

 All the best Adrian. 

Ps I found a picture of Cannon Street turntable but as it is a Getty Image I am reluctant to post it on here, that is as you described it covered in wooden planks. 

Edited July 23, 2017 by westerhamstation

[Fishplate]

Hi John, many thanks for your help, those pictures are really useful and have given me much of the detail that I need. It doesn't matter how long you spend looking for information or pictures and not finding it, someone on RMweb can always provide it for you or point you in the right direction. I did consider the Peco Turntable also the Dapol model, for I am reluctant to spend £45 on the Peco model (for I am read Mrs W Station) so out with tools and I will start to make my own.

 All the best Adrian. 

Ps I found a picture of Cannon Street turntable but as it is a Getty Image I am reluctant to post it on here, that is as you described it covered in wooden planks. 

 

Hi Adrian,

 

Glad you found my post helpful. You may be interested to also know that there is an article in MRJ No25 1988 which has an article on building a Cowans Sheldon 50ft turntable and may be able to save you a few head scratchings. Although it is an article on NER (and P4) I doubt that a private company would have had significantly different models for use by different railway companies.

 

I spent quite a while pondering building my own 50ft table with outriggers. I have attached a picture of a 4mm scale drawing I made of a 50ft table for OO for my planned model.

 

The first picture shows the drawing and the second a Bachman C Class sitting on the drawing.

 

JH Russels "Pictorial record of Southern Locomotives" shows a 4mm scale diagram of a C Class loco. It suggests that (allowing for minor discrepancies due to printing a scale drawing) that the overall dimensions over the outer wheels is 40ft. This suggests it will fit quite nicely on a 50ft table.

 

The distance over buffers on the C Class diagram scales at 51' 9", which at 4mm scale suggests there would be 7mm total overlap of a 4mm scale 50ft turntable. However the model has a non-prototypical gap between locomotive and tender and consequentially a much larger overhang at either end. So the head scratching started. I set this aside for a while as some compromise is clearly required between scale diameter and model locomotives to be turned.

 

On manufactured items: I subsequently visited an exhibition where a near perfect, unboxed and suberbly weathered peco turntable was acquired secondhand for £25. I know that was 'right place / right time' for me, but it solved many problems, including the desire to turn Mr Bullieds Pacifics, none of which were based at Faversham.

 

My thought is I could always build a 'lift out' section with the 70ft well and have an (inaccurate) replacement 50-ish ft table for true® accuracy. 

 

[westerhamstation]

Hi John,

Thank you for all the additional information. I have ordered the MRJ and hope it will be with me soon. For me,the best thing  about making a model of the prototype is the research as  it takes you down so many different paths and throws up other interesting subjects so that the model almost becomes secondary!

All the best Adrian.

[Mrkirtley800]

Scratch building a turn table is not difficult,a bit frustrating perhaps. Take a look at my thread demise and rebirth. In about 2015/6

Derek

Edited July 24, 2017 by Mrkirtley800

[westerhamstation]

Hi Derek, thanks for pointing me to your turntable build, most excellent and informative. For any one else wanting to read about the build  Page 6 post no 135 will find it.

    Glad to here that you are on the mend. All the best Adrian.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/95552-demise-and-rebirth-of-a-model-railway/page-6

[westerhamstation]

The turntable well, that's what's next on the agenda, strips of card, plasticard and some pegs from Mrs W Stations peg bag. 

  The hole in the MDF was lined with a lamination of 2 pieces of card, the first strip was glued to the edge of the MDF then the second layer was glued over the first making sure that the joins in the card were about 4" away from the joins in the first layer, all held in place with the pegs. Next a ring of card was cut for the base this will be for the circular rail. A layer of card with a circle cut out was glued to the top surface of the MDF

 and a circular was scribed and the face of the card removed so that a line of plasticard could be let in for the edging stones, these are cut in strips and part cut through to follow the curve. I hope the pictures show you better than I have explained. all the best Adrian.

[Alister_G]

Lovely job mate, really nice work, as always.

 

What a shame you won't be able to see any of it once the turntable deck is in place.

 

I hope you managed to sneak the pegs back into Mrs W Station's bag before she noticed.

 

Al.

[westerhamstation]

Hi Al, thanks for your comments, as you have demonstrated it's sometimes better to build what won't be seen in a model as it gives you a better feel for how the real thing was constructed.  The pegs have been put back ,and most of the glue wiped off, (will find out later when I put my shirt on). All the best Adrian. 

[westerhamstation]

A brief interlude before I introduce you to the Twister.

[westerhamstation]

Now that you have all done your backs in trying to do the twist I will share with you a tale of woe. As per usual I started building the turntable with no idea of how I was going to do it (on the cheap as usual)) I looked at the Peco turntable that didn't even get passed the looking stage. My next thought was the Dapol turntable which I thought could be modified to provided parts for the turntable by turning the side girders upside down chopping a bit off the bottom, hacking a chunk out of the middle, altering the top deck and I would be on my way. An agonising couple of hours passed opening and shutting the wallet trying to pluck up the courage to actualy spend money on the kit. The deed was done money changed hands and I was the owner of a turtable kit. Turntables as the name implies need to turn, this is where the Tornado Twister comes into the scene courtesy of the grandchildren, Fidget Spinners the latest pointless craze for balancing a fast moving lump of plastic on your finger and annoying others duly came to my attention, and when I was playing with the said Fidget spinner and demonstrating the great skill with which and old person could show off with one, the thought came to me that this might be a useful bit of kit for the turntable. 

   Now the tale of woe, I cut all the plastic parts down for the turntable thinking as I was doing it that it wasn't going to be a success due to the very lightweight of the material but I plodded on with it and started to glue it all up, I weighted the platform down onto the girders and let it all dry, result one very twisted platform more suitable as a propller than a turntable. I managed to part the girders from the platform to salvage at least some of the kit and chucked the rest in the bin. Now the Tornado Twister comes into it's own I chopped all it's wizzey round bits off drilled a hole through the bi that sits on your finger and threaded a bolt through the hole this is going to be the provide basis of the turntable movement, which will not be motorised, this was then mounted into a piece of 2" x 1" timber which had been shaped to take the girders from the kit and also to provide some weight and stability for the platform. Next slots were cut across the timber to locate some I beams to support the outer ring which holds the railings, the side girders were then glued in place.

  Some pictures of progress so far. Lets twist again Adrian.

Destination Bin

[freebs]

Looking good that so far Adrian!

My son loves his fidget spinners, but wouldn't take calmly to me hacking one to bits...

 

I'm looking forward to seeing an engine rotating at a scale 250mph on the resulting turntable....

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Fidget Spinners? Reminds me of various fads of the 1970s, kids will have forgotten about them, latest by next Easter and earliest when the next great craze comes about, Eg. 6 weeks before Christmas 2017......then the FS' will be a useful source of cheap Chinese bearings     

 

Nice work Adrian!

[CourthsVeil]

Clever craftmanship what you are doing, Adrian. Really nice!

 

I – being less fanciful than you – would simply have bought a bearing.

 

The iGoggle showed me within a minute a lot of offers at less than a pound per item (plus p&p, of course).

 

Regards

   Armin

 

 

Admitting that it is a hundred times more fun to follow your way than plain buying & attaching the bit…

[westerhamstation]

Hi Armin, yes that would have been the simple way of doing it. but as you quite rightly say not as much fun, as you know I like to use and adapt what is to hand, and it is only with great reluctance do I buy anything. All the best Adrian.

[Oldddudders]

 I'm looking forward to seeing an engine rotating at a scale 250mph on the resulting turntable....

Shades of Hawes Junction - allegedly.

[westerhamstation]

Hi Ian, I found this extract on the internet about the turntable at Hawes Junction.

(This is the site of the stockaded turntable at Hawes Junction (now Garsdale) on the Settle-Carlisle line. Legend has it that an engine on the turntable was caught by the high winds prevalent at that exposed and bleak location and proceeded to spin uncontrollably, hence the fence of upended sleepers around it. As the stockade was only 7ft high this seems unlikely and it was probably installed more for the comfort of the men operating it. The Rev. W Awdrey used this tale for the basis of one of his excellent railway series stories.)

 All the best Adrian

[westerhamstation]

Trust me to pick a type of turntable with extra bits, instead of handrails that just go along the length of the deck, on this type of turntable they go on both sides of the deck and all around the perimeter of the well and the whole lot revolves like some kind of merry go round. So to support this lot an outer ring of curved plate, and I beams has been made from Plasticard and Maquett I Beam, the Plasticard ring was made by laminating  3 layers formed around a circle of card. the middle part of the sandwich was made about 2mm narrower so that the fencing uprights can be slotted in later. I hope that the pictures explain it a bit better than my written version. All the best (going round in circles) Adrian.   

[Fishplate]

Hi Adrian,

 

All looking good :-). Continuing to pursue my own Faversham project and have (randomly!) come across this really clear picture of the turntable there on Page 1 of this link. Hope it helps.

 

http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?PHPSESSID=t3goqikpedhfg20fjvomib59c0&topic=6062.0

 

Regards

 

John

[westerhamstation]

Hi John, many thanks for the link, what a good picture and it will be a big help. I feel sorry for the chap pushing the turntable round, he looks to be bent double with the effort. All the best Adrian.

[Andrew P]

Excellent work on the TT Adrian, such attention to the smallest details, superb.

[westerhamstation]

Now I am sure that there are better and more elegant ways of providing power to a turntable, but this is my version which needs no self isolating dpdt switches, Ex GPO relays, dual throw middle position LEDs or

Flux Capacitors. 2 droppers are soldered to each end of the rail 4 in total, these wires are run through the timber deck and connected to some copper strip which was let into the timber and held in place with some silicon putty, these will act as sprung wipers which will make contact with some copper wire on the side of the turntable well at the appropiate points, these will have the usual red and black wires soldered to them.

  The turntable will only be turned anti clockwise, so that at any one time the wiper contacts will only make one connection on there journey round, thus powering the rails on the deck when the loco is required to move off the turntable. Due to the nature of this type of turntable the wiring in the well is mostly hidden. The decking is made up from layers of card, covered with Plasticard. Some pictures of my efforts. All the best Adrian. 

[5BarVT]

. . .Flux Capacitors . . .

Wot, no Delorean?

Paul.

[manna]

G'Day Gents

 

There is know way known that this turntable, will ever reach 88MPH, but imagine if it did !!!!!!

 

manna

[Signaller69]

Very nice work Adrian, the turntable looks great.