Westerham, + Weald. Tarmac surface for the platform

[westerhamstation]

A bit of progress this week on the Brasted extension, I have cut 15" off the width of the stud wall and moved that over to the opposite wall, and made a start on putting some battens on the wall so that i can plasterboard it, the basic frame for the baseboard has been started and is being made from 2" x 1" kiln dried sawn soft wood, I taped the 8ft lengths up into a bundle with packaging tape when I brought them, so that they didn't warp, and left them in the garage for a week to acclimatise. The frame is screwed and glued, with the three longer arms having halving joints, I need to make some legs to support the front edge and have found some old metal curtain poles lurking in the background and will use those (nothing goes to waste). I havent quite finished the baseboard, and have still to decide what I am going to cover it with, for Westerham I used a base layer of 5mm MDF, covered with laminate flooring fiberboard, with a topping of plasterboard in places, try lifting that lot. Heres some pics of this weeks work. 

[john flann]

Adrian, I covered my baseboards with 1/'4"  plywood glued down and then where track was to be laid for the top surface glued 12" cork flooring tiles. These sit flat and do not curl. I then drew on them with a marker pen a 9" grid to aid setting out.

 

And I added triangular hardboard corner pieces underneath at the corners for bracing.

 

This works nicely for me.

 

It's looking good.

Edited October 4, 2013 by john flann

[westerhamstation]

In between reading the Remember When thread, (it should have a timer on it) I have managed to do a bit more work on the Brasted baseboard' here's some pictures of progress to date. Next to be done will be to fill the screw holes and fill any gaps in the plasterboard, and then seal it with some watered down emulsion paint.

[westerhamstation]

A bit more progress and a question,the plasterboard has been filled and the right angle corners have had angle fillets put in to smooth the transition round the corners it's a bit of a comprimise but I couldn't make a proper curve,I have also been trying to work out out the track level, this is where the question comes in, the bridge clearance is about 12ft 6inches from the road to the base of the girder 1. what dimension girder would have been used to span the road (just the height will do).

2. what would that make the rail height from the road surface. any help would be greatly appreciated.

[ronstrutt]

What a fantastic model!

 

I never knew Westerham pre-1961 but I certainly knew it post-closure and I knew several of the people involved in the preservation attempt. A bit of the line still exists in my back garden - a rail chair that accidentally fell into my friend's car boot one afternoon during a visit to Westerham. It was one of those lettered "S.E. & C.D.R" when the combined network couldn't quite decide what to call itself. A few year;s ago I walked much of the line on the anniversary of the closure (not the middle bit, obviously - I had to drive that) and I took the railchair back to the spot from which it came.

 

Westerham's major feature was the spaciousness of the site. Even though you have had to compress it, that feeling of spaciousness remains.

 

I am currently working on an article and/or new book that will extend Gould at each end of the line's life and a few points from my research may be of interest.

 

It would be quite in order to run an electric unit on the line for the simple reason that one did. The problem that the Southern Region had was that something had to be done with Kent Coast electrification nearing completion. While it seemed to expect that Hawkhurst would close, it clearly expected Westerham to survive and to need electrification. An EPB unit (I know not whether it was a 4- or 2-car version) was hauled over the line by an H Class to test clearances. In addition, concrete cable troughing was dropped on the lineside for a mile or so out of Dunton Green. Similarly, I have seen a photograph that shows the branch train on a stretch of line which had conductor rail 'pots' dropped alongside the track. I have been told that someone finally realised that the branch was just too long to get away without another sub-station. Without one, the voltage drop at the far end of the line would have been too much for a train pulling away from rest but to add a sub-station would have pushed the cost far too high. If only the line had gone through to Oxted, as was planned on occasions; Oxted line DEMUs could have been used.

 

The major problem with the branch was that it ran to Dunton Green and not Sevenoaks because of problems with an anti-railway landowner. Dunton Green is at the foot of the climb up to Polhill Tunnel, much of it at 1 in 143, so stopping fast steam-hauled services there to pick up branch passengers was never an option and with only a stopping service to connect into the branch was never going to be a massive success. By contrast, up trains leaving Sevenoaks had the advantage of 1½ miles of descent at 1 in 160 to build up speed before tackling the bank.

 

There are, of course, theories that the line was sacrificed to build the M25. The official line has always been that this was not the case. However, as you have noticed, the M25 seems to take a definite 'kink' to make use of the trackbed. West of Westerham the motorway had to run far enough north of the new Westerham bypass to allow room for the proposed Westerham interchange which never got built. It is fascinating that the Godstone to Sevenoaks section of the M25 was about the only stretch of the whole road that was built to the original plans. That suggests to me that the intention all along was to use the trackbed. I am still hopeful that something to support the theory will turn up in my searches at The National Archives.

 

The whole preservation scheme hinged on the original proposal to run a commuter service, probably using ex-GWR railcars, saving BR the cost of subsidising the replacement buses. Once the WVRA dropped that idea in favour of running only steam 'heritage' services the die was cast. I have to say, though, that a preserved railway running for half its length right beside the M25 might not have proved too popular with tourists and there must have been concerns about motorists getting distracted by a steam train on the other side of the fence.

 

Finally, as far as I am aware, Chevening Halt is still there. I visited when the cutting was being infilled and the half-covered platforms were still visible at the bottom. It was probably unnecessary to fill in that bit of cutting that had the halt in it as nothing has subsequently been built on top of it.

[Jaz]

Is there no pictures with people to extrapolate from? If not and you cannot use google earth (and its measuring tool) I would just look at a couple of similar structures and guess (you know like Spock does)

[westerhamstation]

What a fantastic model!

 

I never knew Westerham pre-1961 but I certainly knew it post-closure and I knew several of the people involved in the preservation attempt. A bit of the line still exists in my back garden - a rail chair that accidentally fell into my friend's car boot one afternoon during a visit to Westerham. It was one of those lettered "S.E. & C.D.R" when the combined network couldn't quite decide what to call itself. A few year;s ago I walked much of the line on the anniversary of the closure (not the middle bit, obviously - I had to drive that) and I took the railchair back to the spot from which it came.

 

Westerham's major feature was the spaciousness of the site. Even though you have had to compress it, that feeling of spaciousness remains.

 

I am currently working on an article and/or new book that will extend Gould at each end of the line's life and a few points from my research may be of interest.

 

It would be quite in order to run an electric unit on the line for the simple reason that one did. The problem that the Southern Region had was that something had to be done with Kent Coast electrification nearing completion. While it seemed to expect that Hawkhurst would close, it clearly expected Westerham to survive and to need electrification. An EPB unit (I know not whether it was a 4- or 2-car version) was hauled over the line by an H Class to test clearances. In addition, concrete cable troughing was dropped on the lineside for a mile or so out of Dunton Green. Similarly, I have seen a photograph that shows the branch train on a stretch of line which had conductor rail 'pots' dropped alongside the track. I have been told that someone finally realised that the branch was just too long to get away without another sub-station. Without one, the voltage drop at the far end of the line would have been too much for a train pulling away from rest but to add a sub-station would have pushed the cost far too high. If only the line had gone through to Oxted, as was planned on occasions; Oxted line DEMUs could have been used.

 

The major problem with the branch was that it ran to Dunton Green and not Sevenoaks because of problems with an anti-railway landowner. Dunton Green is at the foot of the climb up to Polhill Tunnel, much of it at 1 in 143, so stopping fast steam-hauled services there to pick up branch passengers was never an option and with only a stopping service to connect into the branch was never going to be a massive success. By contrast, up trains leaving Sevenoaks had the advantage of 1½ miles of descent at 1 in 160 to build up speed before tackling the bank.

 

There are, of course, theories that the line was sacrificed to build the M25. The official line has always been that this was not the case. However, as you have noticed, the M25 seems to take a definite 'kink' to make use of the trackbed. West of Westerham the motorway had to run far enough north of the new Westerham bypass to allow room for the proposed Westerham interchange which never got built. It is fascinating that the Godstone to Sevenoaks section of the M25 was about the only stretch of the whole road that was built to the original plans. That suggests to me that the intention all along was to use the trackbed. I am still hopeful that something to support the theory will turn up in my searches at The National Archives.

 

The whole preservation scheme hinged on the original proposal to run a commuter service, probably using ex-GWR railcars, saving BR the cost of subsidising the replacement buses. Once the WVRA dropped that idea in favour of running only steam 'heritage' services the die was cast. I have to say, though, that a preserved railway running for half its length right beside the M25 might not have proved too popular with tourists and there must have been concerns about motorists getting distracted by a steam train on the other side of the fence.

 

Finally, as far as I am aware, Chevening Halt is still there. I visited when the cutting was being infilled and the half-covered platforms were still visible at the bottom. It was probably unnecessary to fill in that bit of cutting that had the halt in it as nothing has subsequently been built on top of it.

 

What a fantastic model!

 

I never knew Westerham pre-1961 but I certainly knew it post-closure and I knew several of the people involved in the preservation attempt. A bit of the line still exists in my back garden - a rail chair that accidentally fell into my friend's car boot one afternoon during a visit to Westerham. It was one of those lettered "S.E. & C.D.R" when the combined network couldn't quite decide what to call itself. A few year;s ago I walked much of the line on the anniversary of the closure (not the middle bit, obviously - I had to drive that) and I took the railchair back to the spot from which it came.

 

Westerham's major feature was the spaciousness of the site. Even though you have had to compress it, that feeling of spaciousness remains.

 

I am currently working on an article and/or new book that will extend Gould at each end of the line's life and a few points from my research may be of interest.

 

It would be quite in order to run an electric unit on the line for the simple reason that one did. The problem that the Southern Region had was that something had to be done with Kent Coast electrification nearing completion. While it seemed to expect that Hawkhurst would close, it clearly expected Westerham to survive and to need electrification. An EPB unit (I know not whether it was a 4- or 2-car version) was hauled over the line by an H Class to test clearances. In addition, concrete cable troughing was dropped on the lineside for a mile or so out of Dunton Green. Similarly, I have seen a photograph that shows the branch train on a stretch of line which had conductor rail 'pots' dropped alongside the track. I have been told that someone finally realised that the branch was just too long to get away without another sub-station. Without one, the voltage drop at the far end of the line would have been too much for a train pulling away from rest but to add a sub-station would have pushed the cost far too high. If only the line had gone through to Oxted, as was planned on occasions; Oxted line DEMUs could have been used.

 

The major problem with the branch was that it ran to Dunton Green and not Sevenoaks because of problems with an anti-railway landowner. Dunton Green is at the foot of the climb up to Polhill Tunnel, much of it at 1 in 143, so stopping fast steam-hauled services there to pick up branch passengers was never an option and with only a stopping service to connect into the branch was never going to be a massive success. By contrast, up trains leaving Sevenoaks had the advantage of 1½ miles of descent at 1 in 160 to build up speed before tackling the bank.

 

There are, of course, theories that the line was sacrificed to build the M25. The official line has always been that this was not the case. However, as you have noticed, the M25 seems to take a definite 'kink' to make use of the trackbed. West of Westerham the motorway had to run far enough north of the new Westerham bypass to allow room for the proposed Westerham interchange which never got built. It is fascinating that the Godstone to Sevenoaks section of the M25 was about the only stretch of the whole road that was built to the original plans. That suggests to me that the intention all along was to use the trackbed. I am still hopeful that something to support the theory will turn up in my searches at The National Archives.

 

The whole preservation scheme hinged on the original proposal to run a commuter service, probably using ex-GWR railcars, saving BR the cost of subsidising the replacement buses. Once the WVRA dropped that idea in favour of running only steam 'heritage' services the die was cast. I have to say, though, that a preserved railway running for half its length right beside the M25 might not have proved too popular with tourists and there must have been concerns about motorists getting distracted by a steam train on the other side of the fence.

 

Finally, as far as I am aware, Chevening Halt is still there. I visited when the cutting was being infilled and the half-covered platforms were still visible at the bottom. It was probably unnecessary to fill in that bit of cutting that had the halt in it as nothing has subsequently been built on top of it.

Many thanks Ron for the information most of which is new to me, I agree with you about running a preserved line along side a busy motorway might prove something of a distraction! The H class loco pulling a EPB unit would make a very unsual scene indeed. Please let me know when your article/book is available as that sounds facinating. Regards Adrian.

[bigherb]

Here's some recent pictures of Brasted.

The Station approach road.

 

The Station road railway over bridge would have been just in front of the M25 bridge

 

The station forecourt with the entrance to the goods yard beyond, the booking hall would have been where the M25 access barriers are.

 

The goods yard. It was still used as a coal merchants yard until the M25 was built. I think the merchants name was Brazier they used to to have an office opposite the Co op in Westerham High Street, I regularly used to pick up a trailer load of coal from the yard.

 

Reference to Rons post

The first destruction was the A21 Sevenoaks bypass, the Chevening cutting was filled in with the spoil and the road over bridge was still there as well, for a long time the two parapet walls where still either side of the road until the A21/M25 junction was built.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[westerhamstation]

Thanks for those pics BigHerb, It shows how steep the approach to Brasted Station was and the size of the old goods yard,  thanks for that. regards Adrian. 

[ronstrutt]

Reference to Rons post

The first destruction was the A21 Sevenoaks bypass, the Chevening cutting was filled in with the spoil and the road over bridge was still there as well, for a long time the two parapet walls where still either side of the road until the A21/M25 junction was built.

 

 

Yes, it was the building of the A21 bypass that really finished off the preservation scheme. Kent CC wanted the preservationists to pay for a bridge over the line rather than filling in the cutting and even then the trackbed might only be available for a few years. Clearly, minds had been made up that it was to be used for the M25 by then if not long before.

 

Using the cutting as a handy spot to get rid of some excess spoil would explain why they didn't bother to demolish the platform first.

 

I will certainly let people know when the results of my latest research bear fruit but don't hold your breath! There is still a mass of material to go through.

Edited October 17, 2013 by ronstrutt

[westerhamstation]

Nothing happening with the baseboard this week as I have been stuck indoors, but this has given me a chance to see what I might do for the backscene

for Brasted Station. When working on Westerham station I left the backscene till quite late in the construction, this gave me a lot of problems when fixing it as i was leaning over things that were all ready in place, so lesson learned this will be one of the first jobs to be tackled.The image is from Google street view and is taken from the slow lane of The M25 heading west from the approximate site of the old platform, It will be about 10ft long and about 4 to 5 inches high printed onto matt self adhesive white vinyl. the sky will be painted onto the plasterboard in the same way that I did Westerham which was blue faded into magnolia with clouds sponged on I know sounds horrible, but in reality looks ok. heres what the backround might look like if all goes to plan. (that's just meant it wont).

[westerhamstation]

The baseboard for Brasted is taking shape, but it is not the most entertaining thing to keep on taking pictures of. However I have done some more work on the backscene, To get the 10ft  length that I need, I have had to piece together 5 images from Google street view in Photoshop this has also given me a reasonable resolution to have it printed. I also added the lane on the left hand side to the image, this will be seen under and through the bridge. It all still needs a bit of tweaking but shows what it will be like.

Edited October 23, 2013 by westerhamstation

[bigherb]

I think the lane view is to modern, Station Rd was quite narrow and hedged both sides more like Brasted Hill.

 

 

 

[westerhamstation]

Thanks for that Bigherb,I like the look of that pic will have a mess about with that one and see what it looks like. It seems that  they messed with hogtrough hill when they built the motorway and made it wider and put that road in on the left, your pic is more in keeping with what used to be. thanks Adrian.

[westerhamstation]

The sky is blue, some cloud is about, but it looks like it will stay fine for years to come. The baseboard is covered with ply and plasterboard, and is ready for covering with 5mm laminate flooring underlay I have just enough left over from the kitchen floor, I have used some 20mm ply for the right hand side of the baseboard,some 5mm ply for the left handside, and some 9.5mm plasterboard for the higher level on the left handside, this has used up some left over bits and pieces. The sky was painted with a roller, using matt white, magnolia and a tester pot of blue emulsion. When the fibre board has been stuck down all over I can make a proper start.I have used the paper template to give me a rough idea of what the lay of the land will look likeleading up to the station. here are some pics up to date.

 

[Jaz]

Get the basic structure sorted and you are on a roll, looking reading for some track 

[JCL]

Wow, you're fast! I'll be interested in how you texture that grass sheet.

[bagpipes331]

Hi Adrian,

When are you free to come round and plaster my garage? Oh, I could do with a laminate floor as well!

[tender]

Interesting use of baseboard materials, never seen plasterboard or laminate being used before.

[westerhamstation]

Interesting use of baseboard materials, never seen plasterboard or laminate being used before.

Some of the reasons for the use of plasterboard and fibre board underlay came about by accident, when I was building Westerham Station I needed to make up the road level to match the platform height and the only material I had available was some left over plasterboard so being a bit of a tight wad I used this for the road and the platform, the great advantage of this is, that if you take the paper layer off of the plasterboard, you have a perfect plaster surface that you can contour to form a camber on the road surface,or left perfectly flat, it can be sealed with PVA, then painted and scatter applied and it cost nothing! Fibre Board Underlay again cheap as it was left over and once fixed to the baseboard by glueing all over to the baseboard with vinyl tile adhesive is very stable, It has good sound deadening properties, can be sealed with PVA ,can be cut, carved, drilled,sanded, stuck, is green all the way through and is a bit like the old Sundela or Essex board but so much better. I hope this sheds some light on my use of base board materials.

[westerhamstation]

Back ToThe Future Part IV.

[Jaz]

Westerhamstation

We used 12.5 and 9 mm plasterboard to match our track on foam and then used Peco edging. That was for Kalborough. Now, on Goathland, we are using the PIR (Celotex / Kingspan / Recticel) where we rip of the foil and contour it, it sands fast but the particles are very fine, so i recommend good ventilation or a mask. The good thing with the stronger materials is if you lean on them (we have a depth of 4ft 3in) the 'scenery' can stand the strain. 

Edited November 3, 2013 by Jaz

[JCL]

It has good sound deadening properties

 

I wish I'd heard about this before I glued the track down. I've used expanded polystyrene (not the balls) insulation which is great to work with, but the trains can sound like a stampeding herd of horses then they get up to speed. :-/

[David Todd]

 the trains can sound like a stampeding herd of horses then they get up to speed. :-/

Sounds as though,you have your locos' H.P. correct,then........

[JCL]

Ah, I can see what that sounded like, not full speed like Hornby's old Smokey Joe! Unfortunately the insulation is a bit like a drum. I'd used cork, below the track, but with a loco and a load of coaches it can get a bit noisy.