Whats on your 2mm Work bench

[Donw]

excellent work there.

 

Don

[John Brenchley]

At the end of last year when I was looking at Osborns Model's website to buy one of the Farish 64xx Pannier tanks, I noticed they were selling some kits by Arch Laser for various GWR wagons.

 

Not being too sure what they would be like, I took a risk and ordered the Hydra/Loriot and the Beetle C.

 

This post is about my attempts to create a reasonable 2mm scale model from the Beetle C kit. 

 

Although the instructions refer to numbers built for diagrams W13 and W14, the positioning of the diagonal bracing on the ends means it is only correct for the later W14 design.

 

The model so far with its first spray undercoat (the windows having had to be masked off) - I'll probably brush paint the final coat of brown for the body.

 

The sides, ends and most of the chassis  are laser cut from ply which is about 0.8mm thick.  One of the limitations of ply is that it is not possible to represent the T stanchions properly as they only really look like flat bars but at normal viewing distance, I hope this is not too noticeable.

 

Measuring the kit which I assumed was to N gauge size, I had expected it to be a bit large for 2mm scale.  The model should be 52 mm long by 16 mm wide.  It looked as if the ends were designed to go between the sides which would make the ends marginally too wide but the length was quite a bit short at barely 49mm.  I therefore used some bits of spare ply to widen the ends to the correct width and fitted the sides between the ends.  This gives rather wide corner bracing but at normal distance this was acceptable to my eye and gave me a length slightly over 50mm.

 

The wheel spacing on the chassis was spot on at 32mm so the shortage in length was occurring at each end and it certainly looked like the support brackets for the brake levers were too close to the w irons.

 

I do not think ply is the best material for a chassis as it is not strong enough for the V hangers and various other fine detail.  Comparison with photographs and drawings showed that most of the chassis details were wrong anyway (V hangers on both sides, supports for brakes levers on all four corners and no representation of brake blocks)  so I cut everything off leaving only the side frames and the W irons.

 

I narrowed the floor of the chassis slightly so that when top hat bearings were glued behind the W irons, they would be the correct distance apart for the associations standard 7mm coach wheels.

 

The springs are represented by being laser cut into the ply and the axle boxes were rather crudely shaped bits of ply to be glued on.  Not liking either of these, I used some of the Associations old white metal spring and axle box combinations that I had bought many years ago and glued these on the outside.  They should really line up under the sole bars rather than proud of them but again, at normal viewing distance, I can live with this.

 

I then used bits of left over chassis kits to create clasp brakes, DCIII brake rodding etc and added a vacuum cylinder, various cranks and rodding, door bangers and the central steps each side.  These were soldered together where possible or glued into holes drilled in the ply base.  Self contained 3D printed buffers completed the lower part of the model. At this stage I have not attempted to model the tiny steps on each corner.

 

 

 

The body seemed quite reasonable in appearance though until it is fully painted I won't be sure if the grain of the ply is too course.  One thing I found was that as soon as the ends and sides were separated from their supporting ply frame, they took on a severe curve.  I was not convinced that just the small corner joints and a couple of ply cross braces would be enough to correct this curve without risk of the glue joints breaking at some point in the future so I made up a solid body from layers of thick card and glued the ends and sides to this, clamping them in a vice till the glue was well and truly dry.  This seems to have worked OK and has given the wagon some useful extra weight.  I also cut and scraped the card interior to the shape of the roof so that a curved piece of 10thou plastic would have support over its entire size. I used plastic for the roof rather than the piece of thin card supplied with the kit.

 

So overall, what are my conclusions - if you can live with the slightly too short length then the body is quite good but at best the chassis has to be treated as an aid to scratch building.  If an etched metal kit existed for this model, I would probably buy it instead but I think when painted, this kit will look acceptable as an attachment to a train coming down my branch line.

Edited March 5, 2018 by John Brenchley

[2mmMark]

It's fascinating to see the use of laser cutting to get some nicely outlined but in this case, I wonder if thin card might not have been a better choice, having an ungrained surface finish.

[Caley Jim]

It's fascinating to see the use of laser cutting to get some nicely outlined but in this case, I wonder if thin card might not have been a better choice, having an ungrained surface finish.

Or alternatively, 1mm MDF.

 

Jim

[2mmMark]

At the end of last year when I was looking at Osborns Model's website to buy one of the Farish 64xx Pannier tanks, I noticed they were selling some kits by Arch Laser for various GWR wagons.

 

Not being too sure what they would be like, I took a risk and ordered the Hydra/Loriot and the Beetle C.

 

This post is about my attempts to create a reasonable 2mm scale model from the Beetle C kit. 

 

Although the instructions refer to numbers built for diagrams W13 and W14, the positioning of the diagonal bracing on the ends means it is only correct for the later W14 design.

 

IMGP6341.JPG

The model so far with its first spray undercoat (the windows having had to be masked off) - I'll probably brush paint the final coat of brown for the body.

 

The sides, ends and most of the chassis  are laser cut from ply which is about 0.8mm thick.  One of the limitations of ply is that it is not possible to represent the T stanchions properly as they only really look like flat bars but at normal viewing distance, I hope this is not too noticeable.

 

Measuring the kit which I assumed was to N gauge size, I had expected it to be a bit large for 2mm scale.  The model should be 52 mm long by 16 mm wide.  It looked as if the ends were designed to go between the sides which would make the ends marginally too wide but the length was quite a bit short at barely 49mm.  I therefore used some bits of spare ply to widen the ends to the correct width and fitted the sides between the ends.  This gives rather wide corner bracing but at normal distance this was acceptable to my eye and gave me a length slightly over 50mm.

 

The wheel spacing on the chassis was spot on at 32mm so the shortage in length was occurring at each end and it certainly looked like the support brackets for the brake levers were too close to the w irons.

 

I do not think ply is the best material for a chassis as it is not strong enough for the V hangers and various other fine detail.  Comparison with photographs and drawings showed that most of the chassis details were wrong anyway (V hangers on both sides, supports for brakes levers on all four corners and no representation of brake blocks)  so I cut everything off leaving only the side frames and the W irons.

 

I narrowed the floor of the chassis slightly so that when top hat bearings were glued behind the W irons, they would be the correct distance apart for the associations standard 7mm coach wheels.

 

The springs are represented by being laser cut into the ply and the axle boxes were rather crudely shaped bits of ply to be glued on.  Not liking either of these, I used some of the Associations old white metal spring and axle box combinations that I had bought many years ago and glued these on the outside.  They should really line up under the sole bars rather than proud of them but again, at normal viewing distance, I can live with this.

 

I then used bits of left over chassis kits to create clasp brakes, DCIII brake rodding etc and added a vacuum cylinder, various cranks and rodding, door bangers and the central steps each side.  These were soldered together where possible or glued into holes drilled in the ply base.  Self contained 3D printed buffers completed the lower part of the model. At this stage I have not attempted to model the tiny steps on each corner.

 

IMGP6322.JPG

 

IMGP6323.JPG

 

The body seemed quite reasonable in appearance though until it is fully painted I won't be sure if the grain of the ply is too course.  One thing I found was that as soon as the ends and sides were separated from their supporting ply frame, they took on a severe curve.  I was not convinced that just the small corner joints and a couple of ply cross braces would be enough to correct this curve without risk of the glue joints breaking at some point in the future so I made up a solid body from layers of thick card and glued the ends and sides to this, clamping them in a vice till the glue was well and truly dry.  This seems to have worked OK and has given the wagon some useful extra weight.  I also cut and scraped the card interior to the shape of the roof so that a curved piece of 10thou plastic would have support over its entire size. I used plastic for the roof rather than the piece of thin card supplied with the kit.

 

So overall, what are my conclusions - if you can live with the slightly too short length then the body is quite good but at best the chassis has to be treated as an aid to scratch building.  If an etched metal kit existed for this model, I would probably buy it instead but I think when painted, this kit will look acceptable as an attachment to a train coming down my branch line.

 

It might be a bit too late but it occured to me that you could replicate a channel solebar by add some thin card either side of the ply. 

 

Like this:

 

Mark

[Nick Mitchell]

A group of scruffy-looking fellas were spotted loitering with intent on my workbench this afternoon.

These are examples of the fantastic Modelu figures (available through the 2mm Scale Association shop).

Painting was an exercise in trying to remember what I'd learned from Tim Shackleton's visit to the North East Area Group last year.

[justin1985]

I've been working on more of the half finished grouping era wagons from the boxes of bits that came with "Long Melford".

 

There are two of these LNER loco coal wagons, built from Parkside kits. I've just built up two of the Fencehouses chassis to go under them, which went together very nicely.

 

Bill had brush painted these wagons and applied some decals for the "Loco" branding. However I'm wondering whether the grey is too dark? I'd like to depict as early a period as possible, so I think it would have been the same LNER light grey as everything else? But would have ended up more heavily weathered?

 

If I did repaint into a lighter grey, does anyone know what decal sheet the "LOCO" branding can be found on?

 

J

[2mmKiwi]

This Diagram 057 milk tanker started life as a standard Dapol item. The tank and chassis have been extensively modified and include re-profiling of the tank cradles to accommodate the sloping tank. The platforms are from an etch that has been designed with the help of Bob Jones, along with the tank strapping and brackets. Fine scale wheels, etched United Dairies name plates and DG couplings are fitted.

In the steam days in particular these vehicles were generally in a very grimy state which I have chosen to represent.

Edited March 11, 2018 by 2mmKiwi

[D869]

This Diagram 057 milk tanker started life as a standard Dapol item. The tank and chassis have been extensively modified and include re-profiling of the tank cradles to accommodate the sloping tank. The platforms are from an etch that has been designed with the help of Bob Jones, along with the tank strapping and brackets. Fine scale wheels, etched United Dairies name plates and DG couplings are fitted.

In the steam days in particular these vehicles were generally in a very grimy state which I have chosen to represent.

 

Nice job. Actually that looks pretty clean compared to some of the steam era photos. In many photos you would struggle to tell that the tank was finished in silver at all.

 

I scratchbuilt 8 of these tanks (with much variety of diagrams) many moons ago. The ones with this style of ladder had them assembled from bits of wire but nowadays some of them are looking very secondhand. Is the etch that you used available for other peeps to buy?

 

Regards, Andy

[2mmMark]

I've been working on more of the half finished grouping era wagons from the boxes of bits that came with "Long Melford".

 

There are two of these LNER loco coal wagons, built from Parkside kits. I've just built up two of the Fencehouses chassis to go under them, which went together very nicely.

 

Bill had brush painted these wagons and applied some decals for the "Loco" branding. However I'm wondering whether the grey is too dark? I'd like to depict as early a period as possible, so I think it would have been the same LNER light grey as everything else? But would have ended up more heavily weathered?

 

If I did repaint into a lighter grey, does anyone know what decal sheet the "LOCO" branding can be found on?

 

J

 

Here's a couple of shots of my version which is a static model sitting on Burwell Fen's loco coal road.

 

 

 

I painted the outside matt black and dry-bushed it with a very light grey until I got the depth of colour which looked about right.  I tend to err on the lighter side. The strapping was picked out in a dark rust colour.

 

The inside was painted to represent bare wood, strapping again picked out in rust colour and then dry brushed with black so it looked a powdery coating of coal dust. Then the coal load was added.

 

Chassis was painted the dark rusty colour and given a wash of Rustall, an American weathering product.

 

No lettering as yet. I think there is some appropriate lettering on one of the Mastermodels sheets.

 

Mark

[2mmKiwi]

Nice job. Actually that looks pretty clean compared to some of the steam era photos. In many photos you would struggle to tell that the tank was finished in silver at all.

 

I scratchbuilt 8 of these tanks (with much variety of diagrams) many moons ago. The ones with this style of ladder had them assembled from bits of wire but nowadays some of them are looking very secondhand. Is the etch that you used available for other peeps to buy?

 

Regards, Andy

 

Hi Andy,

After an initial test build of two of these, I have made some recommendations to Bob to make building the platform easier. I'm sure we could get a few extras included in the next run.

 

Steve

[justin1985]

Thanks for the tip Mark. I'll try toning down the existing paintwork first. 

 

I've been working on finishing off some other wagon projects. Left to right: 2 x Mathieson wagons weathered and with loads; 2 x Association RCH (I think 1907 type?) finished with POWSides rub down transfers and weathered; LNER 5 plank wagon (from Bill's part finished kits) lettered with Fox transfers, painted inside with LifeColor "weathered wood" set and weathered.

 

 

 

I also decided to try a method I saw on this thread by MikeTrice for improving factory LNER teak finishes. The Dapol teaks, like the Hornby ones, don't continue the printing onto the ventilators over the doors, or the door frames, which mean they are left in a red oxide kind of colour. I found once I'd noticed this, it stuck out like a sore thumb! 

 

I found that Mike's method worked pretty well on the Dapol coaches with only minimal tweaks. First off take the coach apart (I managed to break one of the roof fitings ...) and give the body a coat of Klear - I found this actually improved the look of the sides a lot straight away - Dapol consistently use a finish that I think is too matt for an un-weathered model in N, whereas Farish (and Fleischmann, Minitrix and all the rest) get the satin finish just right. 

 

Next step was to mix up some artists oils - mainly yellow chrome, with a TINY touch of burnt umber, and some liquin medium, which seems to do what it says on the tin in terms of making the paint flow better and glossier. I found the real trick was applying this with the right brush and brushing out some of the paint first - not as much as dry brushing, but half way. For a brush I found that a Humbrol "Palpo" 3/0 seemed to be perfect - its got a stiff and "scratchy" enough texture to control the paint neatly on small areas and still suggest something of a grain texture, but isn't totally wiry. The ventilators are the only areas big enough to really worry about the grain texture - even without a visible texture the depth of colour that results from the oils mixed with liquin seems to do the trick.

 

 

A close up half way through the side really shows the difference!

 

 

The liquin supposedly speeds up drying, but I still left it a good 24 hours between sides. I'll leave it a while longer and then do another coat of Klear, and then perhaps a thin dark wash to bring out the door frames etc. 

 

Has anyone tried adding DGs to the close coupling mechanism on these Dapol coaches? Or shall I just take the mechanism off? (which then takes me back to the bogie or body mounting question ...)

 

Justin

[bcnPete]

Layout looks good too Justin - can we see more of it?

Edited March 15, 2018 by bcnPete

[justin1985]

Layout looks good to Justin - can we see more of it?

 

Hi Pete, I posted a thead about the layout here. It's Bill Blackburn's layout "Long Melford" (or as Nigel mentioned he called it "Short Melford", as it skips out the station). The board the wagons are posed on is the only one that Bill had sceniced, and I've now wired it up. But now I'm trying to decide whether to complete the rest of the layout as Bill had planned, or to remove the junction and replace with a station (Bill had basically made the opposite decision). His notes suggest his interest was mainly in watching trains go past through complex pointwork, whereas I feel more interested in modelling a village, a station, and its yard ... 

 

You might say that the wagons and coaches are a bit of a distraction while I think about what to do with the layout ... 

 

Justin

[JohnBS]

Hi everyone,

I've just got my first Union Mills model - a Great Western 29xx class "Dukedog". Although it is somewhat out of region for my South Devon layouts and it is pushing the time period envelope to the limit, I thought it well worth a try.

It arrived well packed in the familiar UM cardboard box. Its running was immediately exemplary, giving the impression of being able to pull the side off a house and its slow-speed control was excellent.

My intention is to do a bit of cosmetic work to the superstructure - fit wire handrails, loco crew, less obvious loco/tender connecting wire and real coal - and then the necessary repaint. Also I will have a go at reducing the overall width (over cranks), blacken some of the running gear and generally apply a bit of weathering.

In my view, the overall impressions is pretty good but the loco does rather give the impression of being like a beagle, if not a dachshund!

Best wishes,

John

[Ian Smeeton]

How easy are Uniion Mills locos to 'finescale'/

 

Regards

 

Ian

[JohnBS]

How easy are Uniion Mills locos to 'finescale'/

 

Regards

 

Ian

Ian,

My layouts, although to 2mm scale, use N-gauge track so I don't have the problem of trying to fit fine scale wheels.

My guess is that it would be quite difficult. The loco and tender use the "American" system of pick-up - loco from the left hand rail and tender from the right, like the old Peco Jubilee. This means that some wheels are conductive to the axles and some insulated. The driving wheels are solid, like the Poole Farish Locos and, I understand, are of plated white metal.

I don't think that that it would be practical to reprofile the drivers, the most promising solution would be to turn down the drivers and then fit finescale tires - not for the faint hearted.

The tender wheels, significantly too small, are solid discs with offset worm pinions on the first and third axles and one side has traction tires. Sounds like a scratch built set would be necessary. Hope that this helps,

More progress reports to follow.

John

[justin1985]

I managed to finish off the improved Dapol teak this evening, and also made some progress on one of the fish vans.

 

 

The steps I followed to improve the finish:

• Disassembled the coach fully, including de-soldering the lighting pick up wires
• Coat of Klear to seal the original finish
• Mix of chrome yellow, small amount of burnt umber, and liquin applied with a scratchy brush over the areas left in red oxide
• Another coat of Klear to seal
• dark Games Workshop wash applied to bring out the door frames
• "sepia" Games Workshop wash applied to the solebar to tone down the red oxide look
• Buffers painted with Humbrol gunmetal - not sure what the weird gold colour Dapol used was about!
• Edges of the clear window mouldings picked out in dark grey to minimise the prismatic effect
• Window moulding given a coat of Klear to improve the clarity
• Roof moulding given a thick wash of Revell Anthracite, then largely removed with a thinners soaked cotton bud
• Roof airbrushed with relatively thin coat of Revell Anthracite

 

 

I blackened the brass pick ups, but I'm wondering whether it might actually be better to rip out the pressed brass bearings and pick ups and push in some association bearings. It looks like the Association only does coach wheels on 15.2mm axles - the Dapol originals are 14.8. Has anyone else converted these models? Perhaps with the tips slightly filed off, and /or top hat bearings pressed into the bogies with a soldering iron, the 15.2mm version will work?

 

The project thats made some progress is the GCR fish van, from the second hand BH kit amongst Bill's stuff. Not 100% happy with it - I started to solder back on overlays that seemed lose, only to find the rest was glued, so I ended up replacing each joint with the overlays in situ - lots and lots of cleaning up! The sides seem OK, but the roof, which was evidently half-etched with "planks" to help fold, seems a bit too prominent. I don't know whether to maybe remove and replace with a thinner rolled nickel silver roof?

 

 

Justin

 

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by justin1985

[nick_bastable]

I managed to finish off the improved Dapol teak this evening, and also made some progress on one of the fish vans.

 

 

 

The steps I followed to improve the finish:

• Disassembled the coach fully, including de-soldering the lighting pick up wires
• Coat of Klear to seal the original finish
• Mix of chrome yellow, small amount of burnt umber, and liquin applied with a scratchy brush over the areas left in red oxide
• Another coat of Klear to seal
• dark Games Workshop wash applied to bring out the door frames
• "sepia" Games Workshop wash applied to the solebar to tone down the red oxide look
• Buffers painted with Humbrol gunmetal - not sure what the weird gold colour Dapol used was about!
• Edges of the clear window mouldings picked out in dark grey to minimise the prismatic effect
• Window moulding given a coat of Klear to improve the clarity
• Roof moulding given a thick wash of Revell Anthracite, then largely removed with a thinners soaked cotton bud
• Roof airbrushed with relatively thin coat of Revell Anthracite

IMG_20180325_191656.jpg

 

IMG_20180325_191803.jpg

 

I blackened the brass pick ups, but I'm wondering whether it might actually be better to rip out the pressed brass bearings and pick ups and push in some association bearings. It looks like the Association only does coach wheels on 15.2mm axles - the Dapol originals are 14.8. Has anyone else converted these models? Perhaps with the tips slightly filed off, and /or top hat bearings pressed into the bogies with a soldering iron, the 15.2mm version will work?

 

The project thats made some progress is the GCR fish van, from the second hand BH kit amongst Bill's stuff. Not 100% happy with it - I started to solder back on overlays that seemed lose, only to find the rest was glued, so I ended up replacing each joint with the overlays in situ - lots and lots of cleaning up! The sides seem OK, but the roof, which was evidently half-etched with "planks" to help fold, seems a bit too prominent. I don't know whether to maybe remove and replace with a thinner rolled nickel silver roof?

 

IMG_20180325_195233.jpg

 

Justin

Gordon has successful turned Dapol wheels for me I have several running on various models not quite right but I appreciate the pick ups

 

Nick

[Izzy]

I blackened the brass pick ups, but I'm wondering whether it might actually be better to rip out the pressed brass bearings and pick ups and push in some association bearings. It looks like the Association only does coach wheels on 15.2mm axles - the Dapol originals are 14.8. Has anyone else converted these models? Perhaps with the tips slightly filed off, and /or top hat bearings pressed into the bogies with a soldering iron, the 15.2mm version will work?

 

 

Justin

 

Are the wheels 7mm? - just a thought - as all the Dapol coaches I've handled still seem to use 6mm, and plain disc 6mm/14.8's are available from shop 2.

 

Izzy

[justin1985]

Are the wheels 7mm? - just a thought - as all the Dapol coaches I've handled still seem to use 6mm, and plain disc 6mm/14.8's are available from shop 2.

 

Izzy

 

Really good point - I had foolishly assumed they "should" be 7mm. But running digital calipers over them last night, it turned out they were 6.55 over the treads/7.5mm over flanges. 

 

Perhaps as 1:148 stock that will run with mainly 1:152 locos, it might therefore be better to go down to 6mm rather than up to 7mm? Only a gnats whisker either way in terms of overall height, but when there is a choice... may as well drop the height by a fraction?  

 

I've never really been a great fan of coach lighting, which always seems too bright, so I kind of disregarded the pickups. But considering I've decided to go with DCC (so a consistent track voltage), perhaps it would be feasible to come up with a resistor arrangement to run some warm white LEDs at something approaching the candlelight level of illumination the real 40w (or whatever they actually were) bulbs provided?

 

Cheers

Justin

[Atso]

Hi Justin, I like those teaks! I've not done the blending in of the brown areas that you have (which looks great by the way) but I have given most of mine a wash or two of Humbrol no. 10 which has improved the look of the 'graining' (at least in my opinion).

 

 

 

The project thats made some progress is the GCR fish van, from the second hand BH kit amongst Bill's stuff. Not 100% happy with it - I started to solder back on overlays that seemed lose, only to find the rest was glued, so I ended up replacing each joint with the overlays in situ - lots and lots of cleaning up! The sides seem OK, but the roof, which was evidently half-etched with "planks" to help fold, seems a bit too prominent. I don't know whether to maybe remove and replace with a thinner rolled nickel silver roof?

 

 

With my BH kits, I've used sanding sticks to reduce the 'planking' effect caused by the half etched fold lines. I started with a fairly coarse grit and worked my way up to a quite fine one. This seems to have reduced the 'planking' on the roofs (although not completely eliminated it on all the vans I've built).

 

That reminds me, I really must get around to painting some more of mine!

Edited March 27, 2018 by Atso

[JohnBS]

Hello all,

Some minor progress on the Union Mills Dukedog.

In preparation for fitting wire handrails, I scraped and filed off the moulded ones on the boiler, cab and tender. Then I perforated the castings for new handrail knobs (2mm Scale Association) while I could still see where they were to go. (Incidentally, the loco casting is hollow, which made drilling somewhat easier - how do they do that - presumably not lost wax.)

When all drilling was done, it was "Emperor's new clothes" time - off came the paint. I tried cellulose thinners but its high volatility just left dried smears of paint everywhere so out came the Nitromors and the latex gloves. That did the trick.

The quality of the pattern making and casting was excellent but I decided to scrape and file down the boiler bands to reduce their prominence.

While I was at it, I checked a few dimensions. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the tender wheels are much too small. The only other area with significant dimensional shortcomings was the loco height - footplate and cab roof a couple of mm too high. I think that I can mitigate this by grooving the underside of the chassis block to lower it on the driving wheel axles and adjust the bogie truck as well. There seems to be no problem in the clearance of the splashers with the flanges.

More soon,

John

[justin1985]

That casting looks SO much better without the paint and the handrails - almost unrecognisable! It's good to know the basic casting isn't so bad as it sometimes appears. 

[queensquare]

Hello all,

Some minor progress on the Union Mills Dukedog.

While I was at it, I checked a few dimensions. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the tender wheels are much too small. The only other area with significant dimensional shortcomings was the loco height - footplate and cab roof a couple of mm too high. I think that I can mitigate this by grooving the underside of the chassis block to lower it on the driving wheel axles and adjust the bogie truck as well. There seems to be no problem in the clearance of the splashers with the flanges.

More soon,

John

Morning John, that really does look very good - couple of questions. Is the excess height due to the loco sitting high on its wheels or is there an issue with the body. Likewise, what is the width over footplate like. I've heard reports of them clouting platforms but suspect that could be the cranks sticking out more than necessary.

 

Jerry