Hornby 2 BIL

[Colin parks]

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Edited February 27, 2013 by Mod6
sp.

[Andy Y]

Having had the opportunity to see it in the flesh I would say the detailing and finishing is on a par with the Bachy EPB (moulded grab-handles and vents etc) which seem to go down well enough with buyers, the decoration on the olive SR unit is exquisite. The initial surprise was the weight packed into the motor car which I would think would comfortably lug 8+ around the flat if anyone wanted to run some unmotored kits with it. The performance was smooth, quiet and capable of a very slow crawl so it'll certainly be of interest as a chassis donor too.

 

Here's a couple more snaps of the final livery sample.

 

 

 

If there were a visual criticism it would be that I had to go and check the height of the timber collector guard which looks a bit exaggerated and the wrong angles at the top.

 

 

Replacing it or a bit of filth should do the job though.

[kintbury jon]

It does look absolutely fantastic. It's completely out of era .............. aah, but wait!

 

I remember seeing the NRM one around at open days in the 80's so it's definitely justified!

 

I assume we can expect 4~SUB 4732 in the new items for 2014?!

[Claude_Dreyfus]

That looks fantastic! Hornby look to have done great job on this...really very tempting!

[Andy Y]

One thing I'm keen to see is the route blinds/shutters and how they're portrayed as there were none with the pre-prod, are any transfers available or is there an aftermarket opportunity there?

[kintbury jon]

Just a thought on the NRM version, I appreciate that it has full green ends, but a quick search on the internet shows that it carried full yellow ends when running in the 80's.

 

Here for example:

 

http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/p870637404/h3A9EB09F#h3a9eb09f

 

I assume that it's going to have green ends which would be a bit of a shame as it wouldn't have been allowed out in service without yellow ends.

[Andy Y]

I will try and get an answer for you in due course on that one Jon.

[kintbury jon]

Can you sway the decision?!

[Andy Y]

Nooooo, but I know a man who could have done.

[kintbury jon]

Looking again at photos of its current and past states, when carrying yellow ends it also appeared to have a much darker shade.

 

It would be great if they portrayed it in this livery though maybe it could be produced at a later date.

[Andy Y]

The left-hand window on the cab front was hinged to enable the changing of these stencils by leaning out of the window. What fun in the wind and the rain that must have been.

 

http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/pics/rs_2104.jpg

 

This reduction in detail just isn't fair.

[Ozexpatriate]

I never thought I'd have to model a third rail. I'm sorely tempted here.

[BR(S)]

Just a thought on the NRM version, I appreciate that it has full green ends, but a quick search on the internet shows that it carried full yellow ends when running in the 80's.

 

Here for example:

 

http://andygibbs.zen...EB09F#h3a9eb09f

 

I assume that it's going to have green ends which would be a bit of a shame as it wouldn't have been allowed out in service without yellow ends.

 

I was hoping the NRM one would be done with yellow ends. A 2-BIL doesn't really fit into Bromley North, but a battered blue one on its last legs or one painted in the late 80s green livery could certainly be given a reason to be there.

 

Very clear picture of the 80s livery here: http://www.hondawand...hfield_1987.htm

 

Either way, I'm very pleased to see another SR EMU being made and the pictures so far show it to be of good quality.

[Andy Y]

I know; only kidding Colin given the comments I've been reading elsewhere.

[Oldddudders]

The 2 BILs never had route indicator roller-blinds and believe it or not, carried a tail lamp on the rear of the train! The left-hand window on the cab front was hinged to enable the changing of these stencils by leaning out of the window. What fun in the wind and the rain that must have been.

As a matter of fact, Colin, even the new CEPs had to carry tail-lamps until, I think, 1963, when a General Appendix Instruction appeared which gave authority for units with batteries and motor-generator sets to illuminate red roller-blinds at the rear, in lieu of a tail lamp. Thus, the delicious COR/BUF/RES units ran for 25 years with a lamp, despite having the capacity to illuminate their rear blinds. The BILs did not have batteries or an MG-set, so carried lamps to the end. It was not until about 1970 that the 5-BEL sets got the necessary kit to eliminate use of a tail-lamp - and the (South Western) signalman at Clapham Junction B missed the item in the 4-weekly notice, wrongly sending Regulation 19 to Balham for the Brighton Belle, as it wasn't carrying a tail lamp.

[BR(S)]

I was hoping the NRM one would be done with yellow ends.

 

Very clear picture of the 80s livery here: http://www.hondawand...hfield_1987.htm

 

Further to this, from what I've seen on the Internet, the NRM 2-BIL appears to be in BR(S) green, but the 80s 2-BIL seems to be in olive green. So yellow ends on the NRM edition wouldn't work for the 1980s livery.

[Miss Prism]

Maunsell panel 'rivets' are very subtle, but even so, I think Hornby has overdone them a bit. The real thing was more like badly done countersunks:

 

 

The vertical seams forward of the drivers door seem to have been accentuated too much in the laser scanning: the real ones were far less defined:

 

 

The key to the 2-BIL 'look' is the difference between the flushness of the glazing in the longlights and the angled inset of the droplight aperture, and I think Hornby could have been a lot cleverer over this aspect - the angles of the longlight and droplight glazing should be different:

 

http://www.semgonlin...r_2bil-2108.jpg

 

 

The fuseboxes look a bit bare and lacking strapping etc, and it will be interesting to see how Hornby has tackled the resistance banks and the other myriad of things in the underframe. And yes, the shoebeam is too deep, the wrong shape and lacking some fixture detail.

 

Sure beats the Kirk kit though!

Edited December 18, 2012 by Miss Prism

[The Evil Bus Driver]

This is excellent news. I do hope they produce in in blue.

[Miss Prism]

Shouldn't some of Hornby's vehicles have the yellow stripe above the first class accomodation? 1961???

[Miss Prism]

The more I look at Andy's pics in #2, the more I don't like. Those thousands of button-head rivets are just so overdone, and they must have taken hours of pointless design time to put in. They're even on the faces of the bolections! Arrgghh! This is not clever at all, it is stoopid. It looks like an old army tank. The top of the doors could do with being closer to the cantrail as well.

 

All too late now, though, for comment.

[Multiple identity account 2]

Sorry for the silly question but is the prototype 2-BIL a 2 car unit or did it have more coaches? If it did then what coaches go along with it??

[PaulRhB]

Sorry for the silly question but is the prototype 2-BIL a 2 car unit or did it have more coaches? If it did then what coaches go along with it??

the 2 of 2 BIL is refering to 2 coaches

similarly you get 3 HAP 3 coaches 4 VEP, 4 coaches etc etc

[Multiple identity account 2]

the 2 of 2 BIL is refering to 2 coaches

similarly you get 3 HAP 3 coaches 4 VEP, 4 coaches etc etc

 

Thanks for clarifying Paul. I don't know much about those older EMU's. But I love it. I'm pleased with the 2013 range.

[Gwiwer]

The images shown so far mostly appear larger on my monitor than the actual model will on the layout and consequently any and all glitches appear to be massive problems in some eyes. Some are no doubt account the scale and limitations of modelling within the target cost such as moulded ventilators while others cannot be ascribed to anything other than human error at some point in the R&D process such as the clearly incorrect dimensions of what is commonly - but erroneously - called the shoe-beam. The size of moulded rivets has been discussed in numerous other topics and represents perhaps as much or as little of an issue as the Bachmann roof ribs on their Mk1 coaches - not ideal but better perhaps than nothing at all.

 

I can attest to the size of the bolts holding the body together - they are very similar (probably identical) to those on a 4Cor which I have had the pleasure of trying to remove during restoration. They're large and they are designed to go in and stay in. Back in the 1930s when these units were designed and built that was as good as it got.

 

Hornby has got most of the look of the unit captured though I don't recall "drooping" horns and in any case the units had whistles until the late 60s / early 70s. Bachmann got this point right on the Cep and MLV releases. However I'll defer absolute judgement until these items arrive in the hands of skilled modellers who can give them a full appraisal.

 

Ian is right in saying that electric units of this era did not (as built) have any facility for stored or continuous power to illuminate headcodes or end-of-train markers and they therefore had to carry oil lamps which would have been of the metal design and not the more recent plastic style. The stencil-plate for the headcode at the front was lit by four (if they were all working - which wasn't a given!) incandescent bulbs manually switched on the by motorman (SR terminology for an EMU driver) while that at the rear and any or all intermediate cabs should always have shown the white blank pane and not a black blank formed of "blanks" in the stencil holder. I too am waiting to see how the actual models represent the headcodes as I would prefer any of mine to show those local to me when I travelled daily on the units, namely 1, 35, 60 and 62.

 

All 2Bil units were delivered in allover green. Most later gained a SYP with an inverted black triangle on the brake end only and some went on to receive a full yellow end. Late survivors also gained blue FYE livery but by no means the entire fleet of 152 survived long enough for that and many were withdrawn in green.

 

The Hornby moulding is of the later batches and can be used to represent units from 2011 - 2152 though some modifications might be required to suit the needs of the detailed modeller aiming for precision accuracy. Units 2001 - 2010 were built to a rather different design with a smaller brake, a full compartment rather than a coupe adjacent to it and the underfloor gear also differed. Those units also featured cream-painted internal panelling while the main fleet featured varnished wood throughout. Accidents and war losses saw to it that some units were re-formed with the DTC of 2008 ending up in later unit 2024 and thus was the sole late survivor of the original batch; others gained Hal or 'tin Hal" trailers and some Bil trailers ended up formed into 2Hal sets; the designation and unit number was determined by the motor coach as has always been SR custom and practice.

 

The yellow first class stripe appeared from around 1961 and is correctly missing from the Hornby versions if they are assumed to be from the earlier days however they should as I noted have whistles and not horns at this time. If you want to represent the later years to 1971 then a yellow stripe is correct but check individual photos to ascertain if your desired unit had gained horns - most did but not all.

 

Finally the units were numbered 1891 - 1900 / 1901 upwards when delivered which is the numbers they should carry if used alongside the current Hornby "Brighton Belle" unit in Pullman livery 2051.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Gwiwer

[autocoach]

...now I have to electrify the North Cornwall line to Padstow. Seriously I may actually have to touch the third rail. Maybe next year will bring the 4SUB and I shall have to model (or at least build the station and collect the equipment) for Penge East (20th century ancestral home.)