Hornby 2 BIL

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... this bodes ill. To paraphrase: "If you tolerate this, your steam locos will be next"...

 

 I suspect you have it the wrong way around unfortunately. It is because of the many horrible compromises tolerated long term on steam locos: unflanged trailing truck wheels, a poor two pivot pony truck mechanism, slightly undersize centre drivers, incorrectly rendered Stanier tender chassis, carrying wheels that don't actually look like the prototype, great sight holes through the chassis where very solid plate frames should be; that Hornby know they can get away with much. (With steam locos, a cab interior with strategically applied dabs of paint apparently 'neutralises' all the far more visible exterior shortcomings in the eyes of most purchasers.)

 

But then again, it gives me something to do when those models that are worthwhile are purchased.

[Ceptic]

Not quite sure what's happened but I have over 20 email reply notifications which quote text that doesn't appear in any posts above.  Perhaps those posts were deleted or there has been a technical glitch.

 

Just to flag one issue that arose namely that SR 1930s units of any kind never had driver-guard bell signals.  They were equipped with "Loudaphone" speaking devices but the guard used and the driver relied upon flag signals to control the train.  There was no "ding-ding".  

 

 Check the 'Albert', held in one hand, give a long blast on the 'Acme (Thunderer)', wave the Green with the other hand, ending with a nimble hop aboard. That's how it was, in my day.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Ceptic

[Southernman46]

 Check the 'Albert', held in one hand, give a long blast on the 'Acme (Thunderer)', wave the Green with the other hand, ending with a nimble hop aboard.

Finding that the outward openng guards' door had swung shut in the breeze whilst you weren't looking....................

[bazza.]

The DMU-type equipment was only generally introduced on SR EMUs about 1970-ish, I think, so I'm not at all sure BILs ever got it. Prior to that the guard waved a green flag!

 

Someone will know!

I worked at Surbition station in 1964. On the down line platform 3, because the platform was slighly curved, the sequence for stating a train that platform was. When the colour light starting signal turned green,  the platform porter standing half way down the train and in sight of both the driver and guard showed green flag or (green lamp at night) to the guard when all passenger doors were shut, the guard in turn showed a green flag or green light back to the platform porter, who in return showed a green flag or green light to driver to show that it was all clear to depart, the driver normaly acknowledged the green signal from the platform porter with a wave.

 

There was a similar starting sequence from platform 4.

 

This starting sequence was the same for all EMU's that called at this time and for all semi-fast loco hauled trains that stopped at Surbition.

 

There was no ding-ding between guard and driver!

 

Regards

 

Bazza

[bazza.]

Advice duly noted Steve, thanks. We'll need a 10BEL set for Balcombe....also 8BILs..!

 

Here are some snaps of a BB motor bogie (with shoebeams removed). I got it as an experiment for using in the 6PUL/6PAN sets that I'm scratchbodging. The experiment is with cut'n'shutting some Hornby Maunsells and Kirk bits with some scratchbuilding thrown in. So far, so good.

 

001.JPG

 

002.JPG

 

P4ing looks to be a reasonably straightforward job. The fore and aft stretcher bars and the four centre brackets will have to be cut and spaced outwards.

For the rest of the BBelle trailer coaches, drop in pinpoint wheelsets will fit straight away.

 

003a.jpg

Hi John,

 

What wheels do you use to re-gauged the wheel sets on these motor bogies to 18.83mm. Are they Hornby wheel sets re-gauged and turned down to P4 profile. I am using Gibson and Ultrascale P4 wheel sets.

 

For the Brighton Bell trailer coach bogies. Do you need to compensate the wheel sets in the bogies, or was there enough slop in the bearings for the bogies to stay on the track.

 

Regards

 

Bazza

[bazza.]

Hi Bazza,

    I've got the two green ones ( BR and NRM BR ) here in the flesh, they are both in a slightly darkish medium shade of green, i'd say they've used the same paint on both. The colour looks right for 1950s finish, they both carry the post-1956 emblem, changing to early emblem should be easy. The colour is slightly flat finish, i might spray one with satin or semi-gloss varnish, or else one could be re-sprayed into the more olive green shade of the 1960s, plenty of variations on these units. You can add a yellow panel to either shade, although the full yellow end version, should only go on the later shade. It's darker than the re-productions on the boxes, and presumably the catalogue, but we all know how cameras can lie? My two are coupled up in the bay and about to depart for Bognor Regis, there goes the "ding-ding" from the guard and off they glide, slight whine from the traction motors as they pick up speed, i can hear compressors ticking away too . . . . . .   :-)

 

                                                         Cheers, Brian.

Hi Brian,

 

Thanks to my question.

 

Depart from where to Bognor Regis! Barnham Junction I hope, as thats what I am modelling, but no ding-ding from a BIL 

 

Regards

 

Bazza

[Re6/6]

Hi Bazza,

 

All that I've done is looked and measured the motor bogies at the moment. I shall be using either Black Beetle or Ultrascales. 

 

As for the trailer cars I've dropped in a Gibson wheelset and it seems to spin quite nicely in the plain plastic sideframes. I'll have to look into whether brass bearings would be necessary.

 

I'll post more info when I've done a conversion.

 

Edit:

Just done another test 'drop-in' to one of the trailer car bogies and it was a little tight, so maybe more investigation after checking the back-to-backs will be necessary. Apologies to all.

[Re6/6]

Hi John,

 

Scartch-built 6PAN and 6 PUL units?!  Good luck with that project. 

 

Thanks for posting the motor bogie photos.  I have not had a good look at these components before.  Is the w.b. actually 36mm?  It might be an effect of the close-up photography, but the axle boxes look to be wider aprt than the axles.   I'm no expert on these matters, but didn't the PANs and PULs have 'Dutch' equalising suspension on their motor bogies.  They might have been converted c. 1955-59 when the 5 BELs were converted to leaf-spring suspension.  (Will consult the David Brown book on this matter.)

 

Forgive me if all this is irrelevant to your project, I do not know in what period the Balcombe project is set.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

Hi Colin

 

Yes they are certainly 36mm with the axleboxes in line OK.

 

You're probably correct about the motor bogies. I would be interested to know if you do find out. We are modelling the late 50s/early 60s period. For me, as long as the wheelbase is correct and the looks are acceptable, it will have to do. I'm 'getting on' a bit you know, where time and ease of construction is at a premium for me!

 

The PULs, PANs and BELs will be seen at speed over the viaduct!

 

I apply CK's 'Black 5 test'...if it looks like a Black 5 it must be a Black 5!

[Gwiwer]

The PULs, PANs and BELs will be seen at speed over the viaduct!

 

No more than 56mph though

 

In conversation with the Chief Steward aboard the Brighton Belle on a couple of occasions at about that point in the journey he was happy to suggest "We're doing 56 - that's about right".  The stopwatch confirmed 56mph over the next couple of quarter-miles.

 

The 8Bil formation (which may include up to four Hal units on a random basis) wouldn't reach even that much on a stopper; either starting from Balcombe station on the down or working uphill on the up they would be lucky to have managed even 50 by the viaduct.

[Stevelewis]

My first 2 Bil arrived  this  morning,  this  was  not  a pre-order  it was ordered on line  on Sunday  and delvered today (Tuesday) by FREE next  day delivery.

I ordered this  as  a contingency in case my pre ordered 2 dont make it in the  first  batch.!

 

I have given it an initial analogue  test  and I am not all that impressed  at the running qualities so far, medium and higher speeds are OK , but it is not too good at  lower speeds and   in reverse direction it runs hesitatingly with a start  / stop effect..

 

I have not experienced  this with any of the 5 Bels which performed reasonably well out of the box  and did improve when digitised and run in.

 

My intention now is to give this  1 a  running in turn  for a while  then  fit a decoder  and see what happens

I will post  my  results later

 

.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Stevelewis

[tender]

 

My intention now is to give this  1 a  running in turn  for a while  then  fit a decoder  and see what happens

I will post  my  results later

 

.

Hi Steve,

What decoder are you going to try? I found the only one that gave acceptable results on the 5-BEL was a ZIMO.

[Stevelewis]

Hi Steve,

What decoder are you going to try? I found the only one that gave acceptable results on the 5-BEL was a ZIMO.

I am using  LENZ 10231-1  Standard in the  Bels  they  give superb slow running qualities, so I stick one in the 2 BIL & see what  happens  should  be  OK.

 

I find  that  the  best  way to improve  things  with  this type of mechanism  is to  clip off the  capicitor. luckily  there is  only  one.

 

I recently  digitised  a Bachmann Large  scale  Heisler  logging  loco  that  had 10 capcitors in 3 different locations , but it certainly  runs well now!!

[Stevelewis]

I have now fitted the  Lenz decoder  mentioned  above, it was a simple  enough  task, the body removes fairly easily the  4 clear plastic retaining clips can be a bit  tight initially but  they soon slip out of the retaining position.

 

Decoder space is a bit tight at the rear of the car  where  the 8 pin socket is located, so  I mounted it in the 'roof space' by cuttng a small slot in  3 of the  compartment partitions for the cables to slot into  and then removing about 2 mm across the whole width of   partition 4 so the decoder could sit on top, none of this is visible when the body is replaced.

 

The poor slow speed running I reported earlier on analogue did not go away after  about 45 mins running in, but as soon as  the'  decoder was fitted it did!! The Unit  will now crawl very slowly in either direction,  at normal running  speeds  it  does  sound very  nice  with a low  hum, and a good  'EMUEY' Clickety  click!!

 

The only  minus point  for  me  is  its lack of any lighting!

Now I know  lighting  costs and no doubt  it  would have been  a lot more expensive with lights, but  when it is seen next to the Bachmann EMUs this lack is apparent.

It has to be said though  that Bachmann have  had  a lighting 'Set-up' in place  for their DMUs & EMUs for some years  now so including lighting in  their new models isnt a s much a cost factor.

As far as I am aware  Hornby have never produced  any coaches with  lighting, by this I mean ceiling lights  not  table lights (which are a fibre optic application in the Pullman Cars , which is probably why  they are fitted in the 5 BEL)

 

So all in all its  a nice model thoroughly recommended, bound to bring  Hornby some added profit.

 

Be intersting to see what  the opposition comes up with   ...err March 10th isnt it!!   

Edited February 19, 2013 by Stevelewis

[Fenman]

The only  minus point  for  me  is  its lack of any lighting!

Now I know  lighting  costs and no doubt  it  would have been  a lot more expensive with lights, but  when it is seen next to the Bachmann EMUs this lack is apparent.

 

I actually prefer them without lighting; the EPB (much as I love that model) has one carriage in which lighting only extends along half its length, which I think looks much worse than having no lighting at all.

 

But I can see how if everything you own has lighting you may want everything to match.

 

Paul

[Stevelewis]

I actually prefer them without lighting; the EPB (much as I love that model) has one carriage in which lighting only extends along half its length, which I think looks much worse than having no lighting at all.

 

But I can see how if everything you own has lighting you may want everything to match.

 

Paul

Have you tried any remedial  action?

 

If not  try removing  body  and ensuring that  the vertical contact strips have a good contact  with the horizontal ones, if nescessary  bend the  horisontal ones .

 

Also  press the  lighting strip  against the inside of the roof, it can tend to bend and this sometimes causes the very tiny LEDs to lose contact

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Brian,

 

Thanks to my question.

 

Depart from where to Bognor Regis! Barnham Junction I hope

 

Hi Bazza,

    I was thinking of the south-facing bay platform that used to be at Arundel, :-)  I believe some workings waited here to connect with Mid-Sussex main-line trains, to provide connections to Bognor or Littlehampton, etc. I think most interchange is now performed at Barnham?      BK

[Fenman]

Have you tried any remedial  action?

 

If not  try removing  body  and ensuring that  the vertical contact strips have a good contact  with the horizontal ones, if nescessary  bend the  horisontal ones .

 

Also  press the  lighting strip  against the inside of the roof, it can tend to bend and this sometimes causes the very tiny LEDs to lose contact

 

I meant there is no lighting (deliberately) where the motor fits into the carriage of the 2EPB; so, if you operate it in a dimly lit room, the whole thing looks very odd.

 

Paul

[Stevelewis]

Ah  I see... I must  look at  mine  I must  say  I have  had some EPBs since they were launched  and never noticed!!

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Everyone,

    Well i've started doing a few mods to one of my units, first up the aforementioned black ink around the moulded roof vents, the aim is to create an illusion of undercut, i call it "Design Bodging" ! To remove and replace all those vents would call for extreme care, it would be easy to damage the adjacent moulded conduit, then you would have to oh so carefully rub down the roof to remove any scars. The nearest car has the alteration, the rear one is un-altered, anything for an easy life.

 

 

The lack of lighting is a slight disappointment, especially at the price, compared with a Bachmann 2EPB, but i forgive them, since any headcode light would impinge on the open cab interior. Swings and roundabouts i suppose? Another oddity is the lack of outer coupling, so if you buy two, you can't couple them as a 4-car until you've sourced your own couplings to clip into the provided NEM boxes. Having said that, i have bravely ( or foolishly? :-)  ) cut off the integral outer NEM boxes and gone for old-fashioned screw couplings, purely because they look the part. I'm a big fan of automatic remote uncoupling, but not at the expense of the appearance of the front end and how often will i be uncoupling them? Here's the new arrangement, the shunter hasn't got around to connecting the jumper cables yet. I told you it was going to Bognor Regis !

 

                                             Cheers, Brian. 

 

P.S.  I can feel a yellow panel and some yellow stripes coming on. :-)

 

 

 

[Stevelewis]

Looking  good....................

 

Try  Kadees  No 19  or No 20  NEM plug in type for coupling units if they need to be uncoupled frequently

Edited February 19, 2013 by Stevelewis

[zarniwhoop]

Interesting report, Brian - I hadn't noticed that the horns droop, but I can now see it in the photo in post #2 with comments in #198 et seq on page 8.  Thanks for the warning about the conduit - if mine ever turn up I'm sorely tempted to move the vents on 2090 to the correct place for that batch (post #351 on page 15), I hadn't even noticed _that_ piece of conduit between them.  I might wish to reconsider that, I've already got enough coaches that were harmed in the process of trying to remove SR lettering or window decoration (green SR Maunsell brake third to BR(S), or not)  or while trying to create a CIG MBSO on a Bachmann chassis with a SPUD : bad idea.

 

For me, the coupling within the unit is the most interesting part - it might persuade me to go for a fully-powered train to keep it close on the straight, but for the moment I'd still rather run with an unpowered trailer unit (I've got an uncompleted Ayjay BIL and tin HAL, plus Kirk kits which might become 1939 HALs).  The pair of units coupled together do look slightly too far apart, but how does your shunter connect the control cables ?  It all seems so wrong to have them looped on the joined cabs.

 

ken

[Brian Kirby]

Looking  good....................

 

Try  Kadees  No 19  or No 20  NEM plug in type for coupling units if they need to be uncoupled frequently

 

Thanks Steve,

     I'm considering Kadees for my BR buckeye units, but i they will spoil the appearance of the 2BIL units, that's why i fitted screw couplings, as seen on the real thing. The only way i can couple the units more closely Ken, is by using shorter or adjustable screw couplings, depending on sharpness of curves, so one has to make some compromises. If i fit Kadees to BR gangway units, the "buckeye" will have to be slightly proud of the gangway, since the latter is solid. Hornby's centre coupling is very neat, with it's bar and centre buffer. I'm starting to agree with others, that the collector beam is a bit on the heavy and deep side, but not a great issue. Looking at 2BIL pics, some seem to have acquired the heavy duty SM buffers, does anyone know how many were converted or did any have them from new? I shall add air pipes to hang down by the screw couplings.

     Yes, the person running Hamley's train department is a Hornby employee, Hamley's were also the first place to get the Thompson O1s last December, i was shown one from their stockroom, but they couldn't sell them, since they hadn't received the price code for their computer tills. Life is so complicated.     BK

[Guest oldlugger]

[tender]

I have now fitted the  Lenz decoder  mentioned  above, it was a simple  enough  task, the body removes fairly easily the  4 clear plastic retaining clips can be a bit  tight initially but  they soon slip out of the retaining position.

 

Decoder space is a bit tight at the rear of the car  where  the 8 pin socket is located, so  I mounted it in the 'roof space' by cuttng a small slot in  3 of the  compartment partitions for the cables to slot into  and then removing about 2 mm across the whole width of   partition 4 so the decoder could sit on top, none of this is visible when the body is replaced.

 

 

The Zimo 623R fits neatly above the decoder socket against the bulkhead, with room to coil up the wiring harness. No mods required. Superb performance even with the capacitor in place.

 

Ray.

[Stevelewis]

Running the  2 BIL this evening  it suddenly developed  a rather loud  squeek!!!!!!

 

Quick investigation  showed it wasnt  the power  car,  but  the  trailer!

 

Quite an unusual occurance, not  had  a new  unpowered vehicle in any of the scales  I dabble  in SQUEEK  for  some  years!,  

 

Anyway  a tiny drop of lubricant on the axle and the squeek was eliminated.